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100% Natural Latex vs. 100% Natural Botanical Latex ???

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20 Jul 2016 15:54 - 25 Nov 2018 01:23 #1 by rvneedssleep
I previously bought a couple of latex toppers from AbsoluteComfortOnSale.com for myself and my mother. I knew nothing about latex toppers. We have not been UNhappy with the toppers, but I have nothing to compare them to other than the memory foam topper I had also previously bought from Absolute Comfort (too hot and too squishy!), I am now in the market of replacing my horribly hard Sleep Number Bed (wish I had known about your mattress forum years ago and I would never have bought one!) with a build-your-own latex mattress utilizing my existing latex topper while adding on one or two new ones in a zippered case. I initially gravitated back to Absolute Comfort. BUT I have now been soaking up all the information on your mattress forum and my plans and choices have now gotten infinitely more complicated! I have had numerous back-and-forth emails with Absolute during which I have gotten seemingly conflicting information. In the meantime, I have emailed SleepEZ also, but they are slow to answer emails and I have just discovered some of the same confusing information on their site. Help!

Here are some of the confusing/conflicting statements I received from Absolute Comfort:
- Our Talalay toppers are located on another web site! ultimatesleep.com/ ...These toppers are all 100% botanical. ...100% natural does not always mean 100% botanical.
- Talalay Global is the updated name for a very old company named Latex Intn’l. They are the only company that produces the true Talalay in single pour method. They also carry synthetic mixed with botanical, which is called blended. They are the only company making 100% botanical Talalay
- Latexco is also a latex manufacturer that makes the blended. But not as high a quality. (MY NOTE: I'm not sure if the person was referring to Talalay with this statement, or Dunlop.)
- Many companies, including ours, use the word “natural” because the product is no longer manufactured using petroleum based synthetic material, but instead uses other plant based synthetic materials.


My response back was:
"Okay, then I guess the better way to put my questions is this: Can you tell me, of the different toppers on both your sites, what percentage of each topper is actually latex from latex rubber trees and what percentage is plant based synthetic materials? It may be "ok" to have toppers that are not 100% latex from rubber trees, but I do like to know exactly what I am buying. And to me, and based on what it says on your site, "100% natural latex" should mean that "all the latex" is coming from "the latex tree" and not from some other plant based synthetic material. It just needs to be clearly stated exactly what the source and composition is (which is what ALL the companies should clearly state).

The only answer I received was:
- The only synthetic latex topper we sell is the Tallyo Topper.

Huh?! What is the actual difference between "100% Natural Latex" and "100% Natural Botanical Latex" if "100% natural does not always mean 100% botanical" and the word "natural" can be used to mean that it contains plant based "synthetics" vs. petroleum "synthetics"??? I thought I KNEW what 100% Natural Latex meant! If the two "names" mean the same thing, then why have both monikers for different toppers on the same site? And if the two "names" do NOT mean the same thing, then what on earth is the actual meaning of the two terms? And how am I supposed to REALLY know what any of the mattress toppers really are made of??

So, I had all but decided to drop my "brand loyalty" and start over with SleepEZ, when lo and behold today I find a sale mattress listed ( www.sleepez.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/111 ) that also uses these two conflicting and confusing descriptive terms for the same mattress: "Experience the Sleep EZ 100% natural latex mattress" & "Natural "Botanical" Pure Latex Mattress"!!!

I need help unraveling all of this before my head explodes!
Last edit: 25 Nov 2018 01:23 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

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20 Jul 2016 18:00 - 25 Nov 2018 01:28 #2 by Phoenix
Hi rvneedssleep,

I have emailed SleepEZ also, but they are slow to answer emails and I have just discovered some of the same confusing information on their site. Help!


Unless your questions are very simple and can be answered in a single sentence ... a phone call will generally be a much more effective source of reliable guidance and information than an email (see post #4 here ).

Here are some of the confusing/conflicting statements I received from Absolute Comfort:
- Our Talalay toppers are located on another web site! ultimatesleep.com/ ...These toppers are all 100% botanical. ...100% natural does not always mean 100% botanical.
- Talalay Global is the updated name for a very old company named Latex Intn’l. They are the only company that produces the true Talalay in single pour method. They also carry synthetic mixed with botanical, which is called blended. They are the only company making 100% botanical Talalay
- Latexco is also a latex manufacturer that makes the blended. But not as high a quality. (MY NOTE: I'm not sure if the person was referring to Talalay with this statement, or Dunlop.)
- Many companies, including ours, use the word “natural” because the product is no longer manufactured using petroleum based synthetic material, but instead uses other plant based synthetic materials.


There is certainly some inaccurate information here. There are two companies that make Talalay latex that you will find in the western world (Talalay Global and Radium) and both of them make both 100% natural and blended Talalay latex. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here .

"Botanical" just means that all the rubber in a latex formulation comes from the Hevea Brasiliensis tree so it has the same meaning as "natural". Different companies use different terminology but this is normally about marketing and trying to differentiate their products from others that sell the same or a similar product.

Latex that only uses natural rubber (either using the Dunlop or Talalay method) and doesn't contain any synthetic latex in the formulation is generally referred to as 100% natural latex although there are also some other "ingredients" that are used in the formulation to make it possible to turn the liquid rubber into a foamed latex layer so the actual rubber in the formulation isn't 100% of the final product (see post #18 here ).

Huh?! What is the actual difference between "100% Natural Latex" and "100% Natural Botanical Latex" if "100% natural does not always mean 100% botanical" and the word "natural" can be used to mean that it contains plant based "synthetics" vs. petroleum "synthetics"??? I thought I KNEW what 100% Natural Latex meant! If the two "names" mean the same thing, then why have both monikers for different toppers on the same site? And if the two "names" do NOT mean the same thing, then what on earth is the actual meaning of the two terms? And how am I supposed to REALLY know what any of the mattress toppers really are made of??


Again the difference between 100% natural and 100% botanical is just terminology although there could be differences between two products that are both 100% natural (or "100% botanical" if that's what they choose to call it) if one is Talalay and one is Dunlop or if they are a different firmness level or use different formulations.

So, I had all but decided to drop my "brand loyalty" and start over with SleepEZ, when lo and behold today I find a sale mattress listed ( www.sleepez.com/products/8-inch-latex-mattress ) that also uses these two conflicting and confusing descriptive terms for the same mattress: "Experience the Sleep EZ 100% natural latex mattress" & "Natural "Botanical" Pure Latex Mattress"!!!


They have "botanical" in quotes because it is the terminology that is used on other sites so that you can make more "apples to apples" comparisons.

As you probably know ... SleepEZ is one of the members of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 25 Nov 2018 01:28 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

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21 Jul 2016 07:25 #3 by rvneedssleep
Thank you very much for your reply. Yes, your info in Post #4 is true. In the past, I did call. I thought emailing would be adequate this time, but it ended up just as you said: too complex and lengthy and taking days of back and forth.

BTW, Ultimate Sleep's "100% Natural Botanical Latex" Talalay twin 2" soft topper costs $159.95.
SleepEZ's "100% Natural Talalay" twin 2" soft topper costs $220.
Whereas SleepEZ's "Blended Talalay" twin 2" soft topper costs $190.

I'm wondering how Ultimate Sleep can sell theirs for $159.95 if it is in fact truly 100% Natural Latex. Otherwise, Obviously I'd really rather pay less money (especially since money is an issue for me)! This is what has kept me going crazy for days when all I really want to do is hurry up and order myself the components to make a mattress so I can get rid of this uncomfortable Sleep Number bed!

Thanks again for all of your useful info.

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21 Jul 2016 09:01 - 25 Nov 2018 01:58 #4 by Phoenix
Hi rvneedssleep,

I'm wondering how Ultimate Sleep can sell theirs for $159.95 if it is in fact truly 100% Natural Latex. Otherwise, Obviously I'd really rather pay less money (especially since money is an issue for me)! This is what has kept me going crazy for days when all I really want to do is hurry up and order myself the components to make a mattress so I can get rid of this uncomfortable Sleep Number bed!


You can see some comments about the Ultimate Sleep "Talalay" toppers in this topic . As you can see I would be very cautious here because it's not likely that the topper you are referring to is actually Talalay latex.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 25 Nov 2018 01:58 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

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21 Jul 2016 11:21 - 25 Nov 2018 02:01 #5 by rvneedssleep
Yes, I did see the post you referred to. But since that was pointing to Amazon listings and the info didn't seem to match what I was seeing directly on their site, it didn't seem to really relate. Here is the direct link to the Ultimate Sleep "Talalay" toppers I was directed to by Absolute Comfort on Sale:
ultimatesleep.com/talalay-latex-toppers

The other confusion was that the sales person also mentioned that the Dunlop toppers I was looking at on the Absolute site were the same as those that were listed cheaper on their Ultimate Sleep site ( ultimatesleep.com/latex-foam-mattress-pads ). But I couldn't figure out why/how they could offer the same toppers for $46 cheaper (for the twin size). And I was unsuccessful at getting detailed info about both to actually know (THAT question seemed to be conveniently ignored and not answered). Hence, my overall confusion and decision to start looking elsewhere. ...But I still want/wanted to know to satisfy my own curiosity.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: absolutecomfortonsale.com/natural-latex-mattress-toppers.htm

I will probably ultimately order from SleepEZ. I just have to make a final decision on the exact components to get.
Last edit: 25 Nov 2018 02:01 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Removed Page Not Found Link (404 Error)

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21 Jul 2016 11:36 #6 by Phoenix
Hi rvneedsleep,

Yes, I did see the post you referred to. But since that was pointing to Amazon listings and the info didn't seem to match what I was seeing directly on their site, it didn't seem to really relate. Here is the direct link to the Ultimate Sleep "Talalay" toppers I was directed to by Absolute Comfort on Sale:
ultimatesleep.com/talalay-latex-toppers


The Sleep therapy toppers you linked are almost certainly the same as the topper listed on Amazon here and I don't believe that the toppers that you linked are Talalay latex.

The other confusion was that the sales person also mentioned that the Dunlop toppers I was looking at on the Absolute site ( www.absolutecomfortonsale.com/natural-la...mattress-toppers.htm ) were the same as those that were listed cheaper on their Ultimate Sleep site (ultimatesleep.com/latex-foam-mattress-pads). But I couldn't figure out why/how they could offer the same toppers for $49 cheaper (for the twin size). And I was unsuccessful at getting detailed info about both to actually know (THAT question seemed to be conveniently ignored and not answered). Hence, my overall confusion and decision to start looking elsewhere. ...But I still want/wanted to know to satisfy my own curiosity.


I personally don't believe that the Ergosoft toppers are the same as the Sleep Therapy toppers and the descriptions are very different as well. I would be very hesitant in dealing with a supplier that clearly doesn't describe their products accurately.

Phoenix

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Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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21 Jul 2016 11:47 #7 by rvneedssleep

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21 Jul 2016 18:39 #8 by rvneedssleep
I ordered a complete Latex mattress from SleepEZ tonight. I didn't end up ordering exactly what I had planned on ordering. But after more than a week of probably "over-thinking" it, I didn't have time to do much thinking as I ordered it over the phone last minute when I realized today was the final day of the sale price!

I AM looking forward to getting that mattress!

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21 Jul 2016 18:46 #9 by Phoenix
Hi rvneedsleep,

Thanks for letting us know what you ended up deciding ... and congratulations on your new mattress :)

You certainly made a great quality/value choice and I'm looking forward to your comments and feedback once you've received it and have had the chance to try it out.

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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29 Aug 2016 15:58 #10 by rvneedssleep
Here's the update on my purchase and experience. I had planned on ordering the 9" Twin Natural Latex Mattress bundle with the layers being a 3" Medium 100% Dunlop layer on the bottom, then a 3" Soft 100% Dunlop layer in the middle, then a 2" Soft Blended Talalay on top. I got talked out of that arrangement on the phone. After much discussion of various options, I ended up ordering the 9" Twin Natural Latex Mattress bundle with the layers being 3" Medium 100% Dunlop on the bottom, then 3" Medium Blended Talalay, then 2" Blended Talalay on top.

The result? I did NOT like the blended Talalay at all! I didn't like the more chemical odor (as opposed to a more rubber-like odor), I didn't like the Talalay feel, and it seemed to hold body heat worse than my experience with 100% natural Dunlop latex toppers.. The whole bed was too mushy. I actually think my originally intended layers would have been LESS mushy. I rearranged the layers. First I swapped the two Talalay layers so the medium was on top and the soft in the middle - still too mushy, didn't solve the odor problem or the heat retention. Next I put the two Talalay layers on the bottom with the medium 100% Dunlop layer on top - that was definitely better, but still too mushy and didn't solve the odor issue. I decided to avail myself of the opportunity to swap out layers. I have to say that Sleep EZ customer service was very accommodating in working with me to swap out both Talalay layers instead of just one. So what I ended up with was a more standard arrangement - 3" Firm 100% Dunlop on the bottom, 3" Medium 100% Dunlop in the middle, and 2" Soft 100% Dunlop on top.

I wish that I could say that I have now found the perfect mattress which is a total delight to sleep on and solves all of my pressure point and back pain issues, unfortunately it has night. I am rather disappointed, to say the least. My experience with a 3" latex topper on my hard-as-a-rock Sleep Number airbed had convinced me that an entirely latex mattress might be the perfect mattress for me. What I have found is that I usually still have hip pain lying on my side, which would indicate possibly it is too firm; but I frequently get lower back pain when lying on my back, which would indicate possibly it is too soft. However, it is the most comfortable when I am lying on my back. I am back to thinking that it is not possible for me to get a mattress that will work for me. I am keeping the mattress though. Some nights I do better on it than other nights. I am not entirely blaming the mattress. I think my body just doesn't cooperate with anything. (Note, I am not overweight. I am 5' 5" and 120 lbs.)

Regarding Sleep EZ, as I stated above, their customer service was excellent and very accommodating. The one thing I don't like, however, is I what I regard as a sales gimmick. The "sale" that I mentioned earlier in this topic thread, the supposed expiration date of which was what caused me to order sooner than I was ready to do, turns out to be an ongoing sale under different names with always updated expiration dates. I wish they would just say that they always have $X off plus free sheet set and pillow when you buy a whole mattress within certain specifications as opposed to buying layers, instead of falsely making it look like it is some temporary special, seasonal sale. I don't like gimmicks for anything. Otherwise, I concur that Sleep EZ is a great company to shop from.

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