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Can I mimic the Natura EcoRevive stitched wool and latex top feel in a Sleep EZ? 03 Sep 2016 22:29 #1

Greetings folks,

My wife and I need a new mattress as our Serta or Sealy (one of the Ss) is about 20 years old. Or budgets is tight and I'm good at fixing things so we have some half inch particle board between the mattress and box spring as well as some stiff buble wrap under the butt/hip indentations meaning we sleep on a pretty level mattress. A little over a year ago I purchased a 4" memory foam topper from Costco that has 2" memory foam and a 2" fiber tufting mattress protector. That really improved the feel of the mattress for us and feels nice and comfy without being too enveloping. Because the mattress is old and has divots, I don't think we get the best night sleep we can and my wife is having more difficulty since she fell on the stairs 2 years ago. Black ice caused her to land with her upper mid back right on the edge of a step.

So money is an issue and we first looked at the sleep number bed. Because she has talked about that for a while, I had previously found Habitat Furnishings air bed and really liked the fact that I knew what was in the bed. Upon a recent trip to a Sleep # store, my wife discovered she did not like the bed so air beds are out. I didn't like it either. I remembered Habitat has latex mattresses so I started researching them.

I found several companies making latex mattresses and learned the difference between type of latex and such but they are all online and do not have any place to try them out. I am currently considering a Sleep EZ over the Habitat because there are more options for personal layer adjustment with the Sleep EZ at a similar price point and I can return it if we hate it. My wife found out that a store in our area (45 minutes away) carried latex mattresses so we made that trip today and much to my dismay, my wife went "apesheet" over the medium firmness Natura Organic ecorevive that is $2000 more expensive than the 13" Organic Sleep EZ I was considering. The ultimate key is the feel of the Natura's wool/latex stitched top. While the Sleep EZ looks to have a decent wool layer in the stitching, it will probably not feel as luxurious as the Natura with the talalay stitched in. So if we go with the Natura, we cannot return it, we cannot rearrange or replace layers and it costs $2000 more but I now my wife is already set on the bed and knowing her, doubt she is going to be able to give anything else a fair chance. I can understand why since I really like the feel of the ecorevive myself. Problem is, I'm really trying to contain cost and I really wanted a bed that I could swap innards if something changed in our physiology or if a layer started to compress too much. For what it is worth, the Natura firm made me feel like my back was arched slightly upward too much and the soft felt like it did not have enough lower back support. All 3 have the same wool/latex top but we could tell the difference and effect of the support underneath.

So my question to you is, do you think I might be able to come close to that feel with a sleep EZ? If so, how? I know that it will not be easy based on other posts I've read but we are talking about $2000 and more flexibility being worth a try.

Thanks,
Bob Mauge

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Can I mimic the Natura EcoRevive stitched wool and latex top feel in a Sleep EZ? 04 Sep 2016 01:11 #2

Hi Crimsonbard,

My wife and I need a new mattress as our Serta or Sealy (one of the Ss) is about 20 years old. Or budgets is tight and I'm good at fixing things so we have some half inch particle board between the mattress and box spring as well as some stiff buble wrap under the butt/hip indentations meaning we sleep on a pretty level mattress. A little over a year ago I purchased a 4" memory foam topper from Costco that has 2" memory foam and a 2" fiber tufting mattress protector. That really improved the feel of the mattress for us and feels nice and comfy without being too enveloping. Because the mattress is old and has divots, I don't think we get the best night sleep we can and my wife is having more difficulty since she fell on the stairs 2 years ago. Black ice caused her to land with her upper mid back right on the edge of a step.


It sounds like a mattress replacement is long overdue but it also sounds like you've also done a good job with some of your "fixes" that have helped extend the useful life of your mattress as well.

So money is an issue and we first looked at the sleep number bed. Because she has talked about that for a while, I had previously found Habitat Furnishings air bed and really liked the fact that I knew what was in the bed. Upon a recent trip to a Sleep # store, my wife discovered she did not like the bed so air beds are out. I didn't like it either.


You can see my thoughts about airbeds in general this article . While any mattress can be a good match for a specific person because each person's needs and preferences or the criteria that are most important to them can be very different ... in general terms I would tend to avoid them unless there is a very compelling reason that an airbed would be a better choice in "real life" (outside of the many "marketing stories" that you will hear about them) than the many other options or types of mattresses that are available to you.

I found several companies making latex mattresses and learned the difference between type of latex and such but they are all online and do not have any place to try them out. I am currently considering a Sleep EZ over the Habitat because there are more options for personal layer adjustment with the Sleep EZ at a similar price point and I can return it if we hate it. My wife found out that a store in our area (45 minutes away) carried latex mattresses so we made that trip today and much to my dismay, my wife went "apesheet" over the medium firmness Natura Organic ecorevive that is $2000 more expensive than the 13" Organic Sleep EZ I was considering. The ultimate key is the feel of the Natura's wool/latex stitched top. While the Sleep EZ looks to have a decent wool layer in the stitching, it will probably not feel as luxurious as the Natura with the talalay stitched in. So if we go with the Natura, we cannot return it, we cannot rearrange or replace layers and it costs $2000 more but I now my wife is already set on the bed and knowing her, doubt she is going to be able to give anything else a fair chance. I can understand why since I really like the feel of the ecorevive myself. Problem is, I'm really trying to contain cost and I really wanted a bed that I could swap innards if something changed in our physiology or if a layer started to compress too much. For what it is worth, the Natura firm made me feel like my back was arched slightly upward too much and the soft felt like it did not have enough lower back support. All 3 have the same wool/latex top but we could tell the difference and effect of the support underneath.


You can see the specs of the Natura EcoRevive here . It includes ...

Quilt:
Certified 100% organic cotton stretch-knit ticking
4.2 lbs Certified organic Natura Grow WoolTM
1” Convoluted all-natural Talalay latex

Zippered Topper:
1" All-natural Talalay latex – soft 19 ILD
2" All-natural Talalay latex – medium 24 ILD

Core:
6" All-natural Dunlop latex 36 - 45 ILD

They don't include the firmness of the layers in the description but they are listed here and assuming that they are right they should be helpful and I've added them to the description above

The convoluted layer in the quilting would probably be in a soft range because convoluted latex would be considerably softer than a solid layer with the same ILD.

The 6" support core is also described as being in a fairly wide range so it's possible that this is a zoned core with the middle being 45 ILD and the top and bottom being 36 ILD but I don't know this for sure. If you call or email Natura they may be able to tell you.

So my question to you is, do you think I might be able to come close to that feel with a sleep EZ? If so, how? I know that it will not be easy based on other posts I've read but we are talking about $2000 and more flexibility being worth a try.


There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you were able to configure a SleepEZ mattress with exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design it wouldn't "match" the Natura EcoRevive and of course this wouldn't be possible because they only have 3" layers and you would be missing the 1" convoluted layer in the quilting and possibly the zoned support core as well although I think that the amount of wool in the quilting would be fairly similar (the Natura uses about 2 oz/sq ft which I think would be fairly close to the SleepEz mattress but you could check with them to confirm this).

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences or to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else.

The closest you could probably come with a SleepEZ configuration would be to use two firm 100% natural Dunlop layers on the bottom which would be somewhat similar to the bottom 6" layer in the Natura and then a soft 100% natural Talalay layer on top which would be somewhat similar to the 1" 19 ILD and the 2" 24 ILD layers in the Natura. Of course this would be missing the 1" convoluted latex in the cover and the layers wouldn't be exactly the same so the firmness and feel would be different but different people can have different opinions about how two mattresses compare based on their body weight, sleeping style, and their sensitivity to differences in designs so the only reliable to know for certain how much different they would be and how closely they would compare for you in terms of how they "feel" or in terms of firmness or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) would be based on your own actual experience.

You could add an additional 1" soft Talalay topper on top of the mattress to approximate the 1" of convoluted latex in the quilting but then you would be sleeping on top of the latex instead of the wool which would also have an effect on how they feel and compare. You could also add an additional wool topper on top of the 1" Talalay topper with about the same amount of wool as the Natura quilting but this would still be different because the wool quilting in the SleepEZ cover would be in between the topper and the 3" soft layer and the "feel" of having two toppers would be different from the same materials in a quilted layer and this would also affect how the two mattress compared.

If I was in your shoes though (and subject to your conversation with SleepEZ because they may suggest a different combination based on your body type, sleeping positions, and preferences) I would probably start with a firm 100% natural Dunlop layer on the bottom, a medium 100% natural Dunlop layer in the middle and then a soft 100% natural Talalay layer on top because the softer medium middle layer may help to compensate slightly for the missing convoluted Talalay layer in the quilting in the Natura. This would also give you two options for the firmness of the bottom 6" because you could also reverse the bottom two layers if you needed to firm up the support of the mattress and you would also have the ability to exchange one of the layers if you needed to as well.

While it would be different ... you may find it is worse, similar, or better than the Natura in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP but again the only way to know for certain would be based on your own personal experience. This would give you the ability to use your actual experience on the layering combination as a reference point to help you decide whether to leave it as it is or to add an additional topper (wool and/or latex) if you needed to do any fine tuning after that.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Can I mimic the Natura EcoRevive stitched wool and latex top feel in a Sleep EZ? 04 Sep 2016 15:01 #3

Phoenix, thank you for your extensive reply. I spoke with a gentleman at Sleep EZ today and he told me that he didn't want to lie to me to make a sale and that they had no plans to make a top similar to the Natura Organic ecorevive with latex stitched to wool. He didn't think my wife would find any combination similar enough to be worth trying. I very much appreciated the honest feedback. While I am not thrilled with spending so much more for a bed, we are leaning toward the ecorevive.

I am frustrated that I cannot find any serious reviews for this product online. The only place I was able to find anything was a website called goodbed .com and there were only 2 low ratings for the eco Brilliance and several low ratings and reviews for Natura green series with green names that do not appear to be in production any more. Do you have an opinion regarding the quality and durability of the Natura organic line of beds or a place you can point me to for objective feedback?

Quick edit here: I just found out that Natra filed bankruptcy in 2012 then was acquired by Spring Air Sommex Corp. which subsequently filed bankruptcy in 2015. Now Natura has an agreement in place as of March 2016 with Blue Bell Mattress makers of King Coil. Don't know whether this is good or bad.

Also a strange question. Below where I am typing in this post is a "check this box to be notified of replies to this topic" check box. Unfortunately in IE or Microsoft Edge, I cannot check the box cuz it comes up with a box about allowed file extensions. Don't know if it is incompatibility with Microsoft browsers or if it is a coding issue with the website.

Thanks,
Bob

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Last edit: by Crimsonbard. Reason: add more content

Can I mimic the Natura EcoRevive stitched wool and latex top feel in a Sleep EZ? 04 Sep 2016 15:59 #4

Hi Crimsonbard,

I am frustrated that I cannot find any serious reviews for this product online. The only place I was able to find anything was a website called goodbed .com and there were only 2 low ratings for the eco Brilliance and several low ratings and reviews for Natura green series with green names that do not appear to be in production any more. Do you have an opinion regarding the quality and durability of the Natura organic line of beds or a place you can point me to for objective feedback?


While other people's comments about the knowledge and service of a particular store or business can certainly be very helpful ... I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress so I would be very cautious about about using anyone else's suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words ... reviews or other people's experiences in general won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ).

Other people's reviews are among the worst ways to choose a mattress or assess the quality and durability of a mattress.

While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else or whether it will be a good "match" in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress ... outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

All the materials and components in the Natura EcoRevive are latex (except for the wool in the quilting and the cotton fabric in the cover) and there are there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the design that would compromise the durability or useful life of the mattress or be a reason for concern relative to any weight or BMI range so if if you have confirmed that it's a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP and you sleep well on it once you are past the initial break in and adjustment period then with the durability of latex it would be reasonable to expect that it will maintain its comfort and support for many years.

Also a strange question. Below where I am typing in this post is a "check this box to be notified of replies to this topic" check box. Unfortunately in IE or Microsoft Edge, I cannot check the box cuz it comes up with a box about allowed file extensions. Don't know if it is incompatibility with Microsoft browsers or if it is a coding issue with the website.


Thanks for the heads up ... I appreciate it. It was an issue that nobody has reported yet. It was actually a problem with the CSS that is used for the template and the bottom padding for the attachment window just above the subscribe check box was too thick so when you clicked in the check box it was effectively clicking in the attachment window to add an attachment (unless you clicked on the very bottom edge of the subscribe check box) . I've changed the CSS so it should be working now.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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Last edit: by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Can I mimic the Natura EcoRevive stitched wool and latex top feel in a Sleep EZ? 04 Sep 2016 19:34 #5

Phoenix,

Thank you for your time and expertise. Part of the reason we have not purchased a mattress in 20 years is because it is a pure shot in the dark. There are no clear reviews that compare power ratings, frequency response, brightness and contrast, megapixels etc. :-)

We had such a bad experience with our last purchase that it stays with you. We bought a Simmons beauty rest with pocketed coils from a local mattress place. Within a month it had heavy pitting where our butts rest. We wanted a refund since I did not recognize the other brands they sold. They sent out an expert who declared the bed defective but refused to give us a refund so I contacted our credit card and they issued a refund. I called them to tell the about that and told them they could come and pick up the mattress but the guy was all smug and said that this happens all the time and they get the charges reversed. (Really this happens all the time? So to me that meant that they clearly are not selling top notch items) So we went to Carson Pirie Scott to buy and ended up with a Sterns N Foster that was too hard and then returned that for the one we have (Serta or Sealy). Because we moved the Simmons into the spare bedroom that had no bed, it was set up on the floor to make sure it was not damaged while we waited for this to shake out. After a couple of months and no reversal of our credit or call from the mattress place, my wife wanted to throw it out but I was like why, it should be good enough if we have gests over and in case they call months later, we will still have the bed. I decided to put a cover on the mattress and a set of sheets and to my surprise, the pitting was gone. That's when I realized that the king box springs needed cross support but no one told us it was needed. We were sold a bed and box springs with a basic frame that did not include cross bracing so I assumed it was not needed. We previously had an 8'X8' octagon water bed that I made. After our move and subsequent several month delay while I renovated the upstairs, the folded up mattress had some water on the folded surface and it mildewed. We could not get the smell out so we tossed the mattress and I bought a replacement but my wife did not like the new vinyl smell and wanted a normal bed. So this is why I did not know that the box springs needed more support but the expert who came out to look at the bed, didn't catch that either. Go figure.

So given all that, plus the fact that our stairs to the second floor are so narrow that a king mattress has to be folded 90 degrees to get it up the stairs, I just did not want to deal with it. Latex will solve the stair issue but unfortunately our memories of the Simmons bed developing pits after a couple of months is a strong memory to erase.

We will probably just get the Natura and take our chances. I know that I will be able to come up with some kind of work around if need be but I should not have to when you spend almost $4000 on a mattress! Wish us luck.

BTW, I will post later to update you on what we get and our progressive impressions that are hopefully Not about impressions! :D

Thanks again,
Bob

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Can I mimic the Natura EcoRevive stitched wool and latex top feel in a Sleep EZ? 04 Sep 2016 20:52 #6

Hi Crimsonbard,

Thank you for your time and expertise. Part of the reason we have not purchased a mattress in 20 years is because it is a pure shot in the dark. There are no clear reviews that compare power ratings, frequency response, brightness and contrast, megapixels etc. :-)


You're right because the biggest variable in mattresses is the person sleeping on them so much of choosing the "best possible" mattress is relative to the person. While the quality specs of a mattress that relate to durability are more objective ... much of the rest of choosing a suitable mattress is much more subjective and relative so the key is to know "enough" basic information that you know "how" to choose. Choosing a mattress would be more closely related to buying shoes or clothes or food where individual needs and preferences play a much more important role than it would to buying a computer or a monitor or a sound system where there are more "objective" comparisons and specs available.

We had such a bad experience with our last purchase that it stays with you. We bought a Simmons beauty rest with pocketed coils from a local mattress place. Within a month it had heavy pitting where our butts rest. We wanted a refund since I did not recognize the other brands they sold. They sent out an expert who declared the bed defective but refused to give us a refund so I contacted our credit card and they issued a refund. I called them to tell the about that and told them they could come and pick up the mattress but the guy was all smug and said that this happens all the time and they get the charges reversed. (Really this happens all the time? So to me that meant that they clearly are not selling top notch items) So we went to Carson Pirie Scott to buy and ended up with a Sterns N Foster that was too hard and then returned that for the one we have (Serta or Sealy). Because we moved the Simmons into the spare bedroom that had no bed, it was set up on the floor to make sure it was not damaged while we waited for this to shake out.


At least with the information you have learned you will now be able to quickly eliminate over 90% of the mattresses that are sold in the industry including all the major brands or any mattress that uses lower quality materials or "unknown" materials where you aren't able to easily find out the information you need to make an "informed" choice.

After a couple of months and no reversal of our credit or call from the mattress place, my wife wanted to throw it out but I was like why, it should be good enough if we have gests over and in case they call months later, we will still have the bed. I decided to put a cover on the mattress and a set of sheets and to my surprise, the pitting was gone. That's when I realized that the king box springs needed cross support but no one told us it was needed. We were sold a bed and box springs with a basic frame that did not include cross bracing so I assumed it was not needed. We previously had an 8'X8' octagon water bed that I made. After our move and subsequent several month delay while I renovated the upstairs, the folded up mattress had some water on the folded surface and it mildewed. We could not get the smell out so we tossed the mattress and I bought a replacement but my wife did not like the new vinyl smell and wanted a normal bed. So this is why I did not know that the box springs needed more support but the expert who came out to look at the bed, didn't catch that either. Go figure.


I'm not sure you are clear between the difference between a box spring and a foundation. A box spring has springs inside it that flex under the mattress and there are very few one sided mattresses today that use them as a support system and in many cases they will invalidate a mattress warranty. Most mattresses in the industry today need a steel or wooden bedframe with a foundation that has minimal to no flex (vs a box spring that flexes) or a platform bed which also has little to no flex under the mattress. There are many in the industry that mix up the terminology between box springs and foundations even though they are very different products.

There is more information about the different types of support systems (bedframes and foundations or platform beds) that are generally suitable for different types of mattresses and some examples of each of them in post #1 here . I would also keep in mind that these are general guidelines and some manufacturers have requirements that may be different so I would always confirm with the retailer or manufacturer of your mattress that any support system you are planning to use under the specific mattress you purchase meets their warranty requirements and guidelines.

So given all that, plus the fact that our stairs to the second floor are so narrow that a king mattress has to be folded 90 degrees to get it up the stairs, I just did not want to deal with it. Latex will solve the stair issue but unfortunately our memories of the Simmons bed developing pits after a couple of months is a strong memory to erase.


While I can understand the hesitation ... there is absolutely no comparison between the high quality materials used in the Natura and the very low quality and much less durable materials that are used in most Simmons mattresses. The only thing in the Natura that would be subject to any visible impressions would be the wool in the quilting because natural fibers will compress and pack down over time to some degree but slight impressions in wool ... unlike the softening or deeper impressions that are more likely with lower quality foam materials ... will even out to some degree over time as you sleep in different areas of the mattress and won't have a meaningful effect on the comfort or support of the mattress.

We will probably just get the Natura and take our chances. I know that I will be able to come up with some kind of work around if need be but I should not have to when you spend almost $4000 on a mattress! Wish us luck.


Of course that's a choice that only you can make based on your risk tolerance and on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you and each person may make very different choices even if they have similar options to choose from. In any case ... Good Luck :)

In its simplest form choosing the "best possible" mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then ...

1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP ... and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or "fine tune" the mattress and any costs involved if you can't test a mattress in person or aren't confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

3. Comparing your finalists for "value" based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

I'm looking forward to finding what you end up deciding once you pull the trigger and of course to any additional updates you have the chance to share once you've received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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