>

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
The first place to start your research is the Mattress Shopping Tutorial
Select the Search Forum tab below to gain access to answers to many mattress related questions.
Select the Ask An Expert tab below to reach out to any of our Expert Members for guidance and advice.

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC:

Apples to Oranges - Latex vs Pocketed Coil 23 Sep 2016 19:12 #1

I was turned onto this site by a coworker who built his own latex mattress using 3 different latex pieces that he ordered from Arizona. I am not willing to go to that length, but I was very interested in latex mattresses. I live in the Baltimore area and called around the various stores listed on this site (some of which may be out of business). I also called around some other stores listed as vendors of manufacturers listed on your 15 "good" list. We were able to score spec sheets for the 2 mattresses we liked, but the spec sheets didn't have ild and some other info others discuss here.

The problem is my wife prefers a more traditional pillow top mattress and I like the all latex mattress. I will list the specs that I have received. If anyone has any thoughts or knowledge of these 2 mattresses, I'd appreciate any info. We were both comfortable on both mattresses, but the specs for her preferred mattress don't seem great to me. I spent most of my time researching latex, so I fully admit I still have more reading to do concerning other types.

Eclipse Perfect Rest Natural Season Pillow Top
941 Individual Pocket Springs
7/8" Firm support layer
2.5" Soft Convoluted Comfort Layer
1.75" Super Soft Cushion Layer Plus Cooling Gel
Plush Organic cotton and bamboo cover
Spine support system (which I think is why my wife preferred this one)
15 year warranty

Eastman House Natures Bed IV
5.5" High Density Foam Core
2" High Density Comfort Transition Layer
2" Medium Firm Natural Latex Comfort Layer
1" Cushion Soft Natural Latex Cushion Layer
1" Cushion Soft Natural Latex Topper Layer
20 year warranty
The spec sheet doesn't say it, but the sales person said it was Talalay.

Thanks in advance.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Dirk. Reason: Forgot talalay

Apples to Oranges - Latex vs Pocketed Coil 23 Sep 2016 21:24 #2

Hi Dirk,

I live in the Baltimore area and called around the various stores listed on this site (some of which may be out of business).


Thanks for the heads up ... I appreciate it.

I checked all the links in the Baltimore list and you're right that the list needed some updating (I hadn't updated it since last year)

americanfoamcenter.com/ Their website isn't working but I called their number and the answering machine came on that said American Foam Center so they are probably still in business but have an issue with their website.

The link for Mattress Fame changed from mattressfame.com/index.htm to mattressfame.com/

gaithersburgupholstery.com/mattresses.html changed to www.abbafutons.com/

mattresstraditions.com/products.htm changed to www.mattresstraditions.com/

discountmattressoutletonline.com/ They appear to be out of business and I've removed them from the list.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint 1: americanfoamcenter.com/ | Archived Footprint 2:
mattressfame.com/index.htm | Archived Footprint 3: gaithersburgupholstery.com/mattresses.html | Archived Footprint 4: mattresstraditions.com/products.htm | Archived Footprint 5: discountmattressoutletonline.com/



With the updates the list should be up to date now.

I also called around some other stores listed as vendors of manufacturers listed on your 15 "good" list.


If you mean this list then it isn't a "good list" as much as a list of the top 15 largest manufacturers with a rating that indicates the likelihood that you will be able to find out all the specs you need to make an informed choice.

We were able to score spec sheets for the 2 mattresses we liked, but the spec sheets didn't have ild and some other info others discuss here.


All the information you need to know is in this article . While the specs that affect the quality and durability of the layers and components are important to know ... when you are testing a mattress locally then disclosing "comfort specs" such as ILD/IFD isn't really necessary or even an important part of transparency because with careful testing your body will tell you much more about whether any specific combination of layers or components or any specific mattress is a good "match" for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) than knowing the ILD/IFD of the individual layers regardless of what the actual numbers may be. In other words ... I would consider ILD/IFD information to be a legitimate part of what many manufacturers consider to be "proprietary" information and it would be completely meaningless and only add to the confusion for most consumers anyway.

Eclipse Perfect Rest Natural Season Pillow Top
941 Individual Pocket Springs
7/8" Firm support layer
2.5" Soft Convoluted Comfort Layer
1.75" Super Soft Cushion Layer Plus Cooling Gel
Plush Organic cotton and bamboo cover
Spine support system (which I think is why my wife preferred this one)
15 year warranty


Unfortunately the specs you listed don't include any information about the type and density of the foam layers in the mattress (which is the most important information that you need to know) and without this information it's not possible to identify any lower quality materials or weak links that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress or make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses.

Eastman House Natures Bed IV
5.5" High Density Foam Core
2" High Density Comfort Transition Layer
2" Medium Firm Natural Latex Comfort Layer
1" Cushion Soft Natural Latex Cushion Layer
1" Cushion Soft Natural Latex Topper Layer
20 year warranty
The spec sheet doesn't say it, but the sales person said it was Talalay.


While I would want to know the type and blend of latex to make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses ... in terms of durability any type or blend of latex is a durable material and wouldn't be a weak link in a mattress. Having said that ... these specs are also missing the density of the two polyfoam layers which I would want to know.

If you can find out the missing information and post it on the forum I'd be happy to let you know if there are any lower quality materials or weak links in either mattress that would be a reason for concern.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Administrator TMU. Reason: Removed Page Not Found Link (404 Error) and Updating link to https: status

Apples to Oranges - Latex vs Pocketed Coil 24 Sep 2016 06:30 #3

I checked all the links in the Baltimore list and you're right that the list needed some updating (I hadn't updated it since last year)


Thanks Phoenix for the update. I just wanted to add that the Healthy Back closed its Columbia locations. I was worried that the DC locations wouldn't ship to me as I live more than 20 miles away. The Bedding Barn is gone as well. A few of them have been converted to Mattress and More Liquidators Link . The store looks rather shady from the outside as it advertises $100 mattresses, but they had a good selection of Therapedic and Eclipse mattresses and the nicest sales staff. The one in Glen Burnie had the 2 beds we liked.

If you mean this list then it isn't a "good list" as much as a list of the top 15 largest manufacturers with a rating that indicates the likelihood that you will be able to find out all the specs you need to make an informed choice.


I realize the list was the top 15 manufactures, but I only bothered with the ones you labeled "Good Possibility". Aside from the Therapedic mattresses, we were able to find some Restonic mattresses. The only local manufacturer we have is Classic. The various stores tend to sell a lot of their low end memory foam mattresses. They may have better offerings and maybe we will find them in our travels.

Unfortunately the specs you listed don't include any information about the type and density of the foam layers in the mattress (which is the most important information that you need to know)


It is amazing how little information these folks have. When I asked a couple people about this I got responses like, "Feel how dense it is" or "This has the best foam that XYZ company makes". Some were nice enough to admit that they don't know and have only the information the manufacturer gives them. A lot of the information I saw was less than what I posted for the 2 mattresses above. The manufacturers websites don't list any of this info either. You think that if they were really making a great product that they would list everything to show off. The other problem was just finding latex beds. Some of the people who claim to have them can "Get them for you, no problem", but have none on the floor or maybe 1 or 2 to try. We did talk to someone who knew everything about his product, but they were over $3K for a mattress which is quite a bit out of our price range.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Dirk. Reason: fixed link

Apples to Oranges - Latex vs Pocketed Coil 24 Sep 2016 08:01 #4

My experience in the Atlanta area is that the stores that sell 100% latex mattresses are very expensive. One very reputable local mattress store,gets the price down some by sandwiching a high quality poly foam core between two layers of Talalay latex; and market it as a latex mattress that can be flipped. After doing some basic research though, I learned that I can buy a 100% all natural latex mattress for a couple of hundred dollars less than the one with the poly foam core by ordering from one of the on line sites that sell latex mattresses. You can save even more if you're willing to buy the various pieces from three or four different on line sites, but that requires a lot more time and research.

My experience also taught me that a mattress that combines poly foam and latex, feels different than a mattress that is all latex.

You may also want to do some research about mattress fire retardants, as well as what goes into the various foams used in mattresses.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Apples to Oranges - Latex vs Pocketed Coil 24 Sep 2016 08:10 #5

I had the salesperson call the manufacturers. I should mention both beds cannot be flipped.

The Eastman House bed allegedly has 5lbs of density as the top layers. He didn't get into specifics on each layer. So I don't know if it is a cumulative 5lbs or just the top layer or what. It is entirely Talalay. He went into how Talalay was more bouncy than Dunlop and how they make Talalay, which isn't what I was really interested in.

The Eclipse is 3.5 lbs of density and the manufacture said that it was blended material and wouldn't say much more.

I learned that I can buy a 100% all natural latex mattress for a couple of hundred dollars less than the one with the poly foam core by ordering from one of the on line sites that sell latex mattresses. You can save even more if you're willing to buy the various pieces from three or four different on line sites, but that requires a lot more time and research.


I can't buy without trying it out. I really wish I could.

My experience in the Atlanta area is that the stores that sell 100% latex mattresses are very expensive


True here as well!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Dirk.

Apples to Oranges - Latex vs Pocketed Coil 24 Sep 2016 09:48 #6

Hi Dirk,

Thanks Phoenix for the update. I just wanted to add that the Healthy Back closed its Columbia locations. I was worried that the DC locations wouldn't ship to me as I live more than 20 miles away. The Bedding Barn is gone as well.


Thanks for letting me know about both of these as well. I've edited the locations on the list for Healthy Back and removed Bedding Barn from the list.

A few of them have been converted to Mattress and More Liquidators Link. The store looks rather shady from the outside as it advertises $100 mattresses, but they had a good selection of Therapedic and Eclipse mattresses and the nicest sales staff. The one in Glen Burnie had the 2 beds we liked.


I would be very cautious about any store that has the word "liquidator" in it because you may be buying a used mattress that someone has returned for "unknown" reasons (such as a comfort return or warranty return) and doesn't have a manufacturers warranty. I would need a very compelling reason to visit them and if they are selling mattresses without a warranty I would consider it to be a "buyer beware" purchase (see post #8 here ).

I realize the list was the top 15 manufactures, but I only bothered with the ones you labeled "Good Possibility". Aside from the Therapedic mattresses, we were able to find some Restonic mattresses. The only local manufacturer we have is Classic. The various stores tend to sell a lot of their low end memory foam mattresses. They may have better offerings and maybe we will find them in our travels.


One of the most important (and time saving) parts of local research is calling the stores you wish to visit and asking some questions before you visit them (see this article ).

It is amazing how little information these folks have. When I asked a couple people about this I got responses like, "Feel how dense it is" or "This has the best foam that XYZ company makes". Some were nice enough to admit that they don't know and have only the information the manufacturer gives them. A lot of the information I saw was less than what I posted for the 2 mattresses above. The manufacturers websites don't list any of this info either. You think that if they were really making a great product that they would list everything to show off. The other problem was just finding latex beds. Some of the people who claim to have them can "Get them for you, no problem", but have none on the floor or maybe 1 or 2 to try.


As sad as it is ... most of the members here that have spent a couple of hours or more on this site and reading the tutorial will know more about mattresses and mattress materials than most of the salespeople in the mainstream industry.

We did talk to someone who knew everything about his product, but they were over $3K for a mattress which is quite a bit out of our price range.


Testing their mattresses would at least give you a good sense of what latex mattresses can feel like and the difference between Talalay and Dunlop latex as well but if you are talking about Savvy Rest then they are certainly in a higher budget range than many other similar component latex mattresses that are sold online.

I should mention both beds cannot be flipped.


Most mattresses in the industry are one sided and it's fairly uncommon to see two sided mattresses that can be flipped.

The Eastman House bed allegedly has 5lbs of density as the top layers. He didn't get into specifics on each layer. So I don't know if it is a cumulative 5lbs or just the top layer or what. It is entirely Talalay. He went into how Talalay was more bouncy than Dunlop and how they make Talalay, which isn't what I was really interested in.


Density isn't cumulative ... it only applies to individual layers. With polyfoam and memory foam you need to know the density but with latex it's the type and blend of the latex that you need to know ... although again any latex is a durable material and knowing the type and blend just allows you to make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses. You need the specific information about of each layer.

If the limited specs you listed are correct then because there is 4" of latex above the polyfoam layers it's less likely that the mattress has a weak link in the design (the top layers are where the durability of the materials is most important) but I would still want to know the specifics of all the layers.

The Eclipse is 3.5 lbs of density and the manufacture said that it was blended material and wouldn't say much more.


Again you need to know whether each layer is memory foam or polyfoam and the density of each layer. What he told you has very little meaning because a mattress itself doesn't have a density ... only the individual layers.

In many cases a manufacturer's rep will provide these specs to a retailer (who in turn can tell you) but the manufacturer themselves may not provide them directly to a consumer. It's the retailer's job to track down any specs their customers need but if for some reason a retailer or manufacturer either isn't willing or able to provide you with all the information that you need to make an informed choice then I would pass the mattress by because it would be a risky purchase.


@dsw61,

One very reputable local mattress store,gets the price down some by sandwiching a high quality poly foam core between two layers of Talalay latex; and market it as a latex mattress that can be flipped.


This sounds like OMF and the polyfoam that they use in their two sided latex mattress is a high quality and durable material and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in their Serenity latex mattress but they also aren't available in the Baltimore area.

I learned that I can buy a 100% all natural latex mattress for a couple of hundred dollars less than the one with the poly foam core by ordering from one of the on line sites that sell latex mattresses.


You are right that there are some very good quality/value latex mattresses available online. The mattress shopping tutorial includes this link to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online (in the optional online step) and many of them sell latex and latex hybrid mattresses that use different types and blends of latex that have a wide range of different designs (including component latex mattress kits), options, features, return and exchange policies, and prices that would be well worth considering.

Post #3 here also includes a list of many of the online manufacturers that sell component latex mattress kits as well (with some overlap with the members list).

My experience also taught me that a mattress that combines poly foam and latex, feels different than a mattress that is all latex.


In most cases that would certainly be true although it would depend to some degree on the amount of latex above the polyfoam. There is also a very wide range of different "feels" between different all latex mattresses as well. There is more about the pros and cons of latex/polyfoam hybrids vs an all latex mattress in post #2 here .

You may also want to do some research about mattress fire retardants, as well as what goes into the various foams used in mattresses.


i would stick with the very basics about fire retardants because this can take you down the rabbit hole of some confusing, conflicting, and misleading information that is more than most consumers really want or need to know. In most cases it's enough to confirm that a mattress uses either wool or an inherent fire resistant barrier to pass the fire regulations rather than getting into the more detailed specifics of all the many variations.

I certainly agree that it's important to know the basic differences between the three different types of foam (polyfoam, memory foam, and latex foam) and making sure that the foam in a mattress has a reliable safety certification (all latex will have a reliable certification and the most common certification for memory foam and polyfoam would be CertiPUR) but beyond that knowing the more detailed specifics of how different types of foam are made or formulated is a long term study that isn't particularly important and wouldn't be very helpful anyway.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Apples to Oranges - Latex vs Pocketed Coil 24 Sep 2016 09:55 #7

The Eastman House bed allegedly has 5lbs of density as the top layers


You stated that the salesperson said that this was Talalay latex and in the specs it says "cushion soft natural layer". Talalay isn't usually classified by its density, but even so a density of 5# is approximately a lower 40 ILD - which wouldn't usually be used in an upper layer of a mattress, nor does it line up with the term "cushion soft" used on the specs you provided. And density isn't listed as an accumulation of different foam layers. Just for each layer specifically.

The Eclipse is 3.5 lbs of density and the manufacture said that it was blended material


Does this refer to the top layer of the mattress in the specs you provided? What type of form is this? Is it polyurethane? Memory foam? Latex? The specs read more as if it is a polyurethane quilt foam, and in the photos I've been able to find this bed looks to have a quilted top, which is usually (but not always) indicative of polyurethane foam. But what I've been able to find may not be accurate.

Seriously, it seems like you're pulling teeth trying to get information from this retailer. If that's the case, you need to find another store. If it's not the case, then you need to be more specific in your questions to find out exactly what is in each and every layer of foam as Phoenix requested in his earlier post. Otherwise, you'll never be sure of the quality of the componentry in this mattress. Please post if you're able to acquire more accurate information.
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
Researching for a mattress?... read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Trusted Members

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by MattressToGo. Reason: added line

Apples to Oranges - Latex vs Pocketed Coil 24 Sep 2016 11:13 #8

MattressToGo,

Thanks for your reply and you are 100% correct. I think the problem is I wasn't as specific as I needed to be when asking the questions and I think the manufacturer was busy with talking points.

While I was out and about I saw people walk into stores and buy mattresses that they needed that day. Apparently there are mattress emergencies. One guy bought one after being in the store less than 5 minutes. I imagine the money to be made is in the low end of mattresses.

I think people who are really serious about mattresses are better off putting one together or biting the bullet at high end stores. I'm not quite sure what I want to do, but I will keep looking around.

Thanks again to everyone who replied and for anyone who helps maintain this forum and site

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Apples to Oranges - Latex vs Pocketed Coil 24 Sep 2016 11:25 #9

I think people who are really serious about mattresses are better off putting one together or biting the bullet at high end stores


You certainly can assemble your own mattress from components, but that isn't a guarantee of creating a mattress that you'll like. And a store being "high-end" doesn't mean there's a direct correlation between price and quality.

The mattress industry, and many retailers, rely upon your lack of knowledge about their products. An educated consumer will be able to find a quality product, but it may take a bit of work. I think that your health and restoration are worth it. Don't patronize stores that aren't transparent or knowledgeable about their products. There certainly are plenty of people who don't care about componentry or quality and are in and out in a few minutes, as you mentioned. Don't be one of those people. It's worth your time to become educated.
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
Researching for a mattress?... read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Trusted Members

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Apples to Oranges - Latex vs Pocketed Coil 24 Sep 2016 11:47 #10

Hi Dirk,

Apparently there are mattress emergencies.


I can't help but laugh at your comment ...

CONSUMER: Dialing 911 ...

911 OPERATOR: This is 911, what is the nature of your emergency?

CONSUMER: I have a mattress emergency.

911 OPERATOR: Say what??? Is your mattress on fire or something?

CONSUMER: No ... my body is on fire when I sleep on my mattress!

911 OPERATOR: OK I understand. That's really serious. I'll send an ambulance to your home right away to take you to a local Mattress Firm store and they will be able to sell you a new mattress in 30 seconds or less. Just breathe deeply and stay on the line until they have arrived and you should be fine.

CONSUMER: Thank you. I was starting to believe that my situation was hopeless and I can't thank you enough for your help.

I'll also add a "ditto" to Jeffs comments ... especially about not patronizing stores that aren't transparent and knowledgeable about the materials and components in their mattresses and about not assuming that the price of a mattress will necessarily reflect the quality and durability of the materials or the "value" of the mattress.

The knowledge, experience, transparency, and guidance of a good retailer or manufacturer can be one of the most important factors in a successful mattress purchase.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Moderators: NikkiTMU
TheMattressUndergounf
TMU
TheMattressUndergounf