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Getting closer to diy mattress build, need some advice please

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05 Apr 2017 21:17 #21 by Alpharalpha
Thanks for the links. I really like mattresses.net's 6" talalay core mattress, it is 2 sided sewn shut (though they'd put in a zipper which I don't want.) 36 ild seems to be the norm in a 6" talalay core, then just put a topper on it. The other would be sleep ez, having the ability to customize the layers is very appealing. but one sided which I don't like as much. But at some point there has to be some compromise somewhere. The main reason for this post is a question about ozone. I occasionally use a pretty powerful ozone air purifier (when I'm not home) and have read that ozone degrades latex, but not polyurethane foam, do you know about this? Again, if it is the case I'd have to either ditch the ozone machine, or reconsider my whole hr polyfoam mattress idea. I also occasionally use an IQ Air Purifier, which I highly recommend, but the ozone is great for dropping particulates from the air, and also basically sterilizing the area, I rarely use it but just wanted to know if it would damage latex? Thanks.

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06 Apr 2017 13:58 #22 by Phoenix
Hi alpharalpha,

I occasionally use a pretty powerful ozone air purifier (when I'm not home) and have read that ozone degrades latex, but not polyurethane foam, do you know about this?

Latex can oxidize faster with exposure to air and ozone and ultraviolet light along with other substances that can damage it ( see here for a latex compatibility chart ) and it's generally a good idea for latex to have a suitable dedicated cover to give it the best possible protection and to help maximize it's useful lifetime. It can also help protect it with handling. There is more in post #3 here and post #3 here that will give you some sense of the effect of different types of covers on latex and oxidation. Polyurethane foam will also discolour and can crumble with exposure to ozone over time.

I personally wouldn’t have as much of a concern with very infrequent use of an ozone generator, especially the newer ones which run for just a few hours, as long as your latex was well covered.

Phoenix

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06 Apr 2017 23:33 #23 by Alpharalpha
Yes, I'm very concerned with the latex being well covered. The actual mattress that I'm getting pretty set on from mattresses.net is covered with "bamboo quilted stretch knit fabric, with 1.5" of Pure Joma Wool quilt on each side to prevent impressions" I guess maybe I should ask for a sample of that fabric. And for a topper it's going to be either an acrylic canvas (which sample I received today) or a bamboo cover that I'm waiting on a sample. The other mattress I'm also kinda considering (and would negate having to mess with a topper) is sleep ez, their cover is "100% Natural Cotton Knit Cover
Quilted to 100% Natural Wool"

That's what it's come down to: mattresses.nets 6" talalay core 2 sided sewn shut mattress 36 ild (and maybe a topper) or sleep ez's 10" model. I like to be able to flip/rotate and have the latex sealed shut, but sleep ez makes it so easy to get your comfort level just right, at the expense of a one sided mattress that would have to be opened/handled to rotate etc.

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07 Apr 2017 11:36 #24 by Phoenix
Hi alpharalpha,

Yes, I'm very concerned with the latex being well covered. The actual mattress that I'm getting pretty set on from mattresses.net is covered with "bamboo quilted stretch knit fabric, with 1.5" of Pure Joma Wool quilt on each side to prevent impressions" I guess maybe I should ask for a sample of that fabric. And for a topper it's going to be either an acrylic canvas (which sample I received today) or a bamboo cover that I'm waiting on a sample. The other mattress I'm also kinda considering (and would negate having to mess with a topper) is sleep ez, their cover is "100% Natural Cotton Knit Cover Quilted to 100% Natural Wool"

Diynaturalbedding had some interesting observations in post #3 I linked to previously about the coverings used around their latex mattresses and noted that thicker layers of wool seemed to help with preservation of the antioxidants in the latex.

That's what it's come down to: mattresses.nets 6" talalay core 2 sided sewn shut mattress 36 ild (and maybe a topper) or sleep ez's 10" model. I like to be able to flip/rotate and have the latex sealed shut, but sleep ez makes it so easy to get your comfort level just right, at the expense of a one sided mattress that would have to be opened/handled to rotate etc.

Either would be a good quality choice. There is a bit more flexibility with the SleepEZ component system, and the handling would generally be minimal once you found a configuration you liked, and obviously you’d avoid uncovering the latex immediately after running your ozone generator.

Phoenix

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11 Apr 2017 13:41 #25 by Alpharalpha
Do you know of any resource that would have detailed information on Radium and TG's Blended Talalay? Here's the "knot:" I've read a lot about TG having quality control issues in the past but that's not as much of an issue lately. Tied into that is people saying how much softening TG Talalay goes thru, and people saying that the TGT was more conforming than the radium and others saying the Radium was firmer than the TG, that TG uses fillers where Radium doesn't. It could seem to correlate that conforming and softening, fillers and premature failure could be linked, but I know that doesn't mean causation and all the info is largely from the past when obviously TG had a problem that could be worked out now. I even found some info that one company more recently had a 6% warranty issues (indentations, compression, etc) with TG, but 16% with Radium, and much higher with Dunlop latex. Technical data on the two blended talalays would really help me out. Oh and when I went to put the kd frame together there was one of those whorled knots that formed a crack right across one of the bed rails and I feared the worse since I bought it 3 months ago you know how these things can go, sometimes they can't get a single part so you have to ship it all back or it has to break then you pay return shipping, but Decor and more were an A1 pleasure, I showed them some pics of it and they said they'd have one shipped out from the manufacturer and that was Sat and Mon I got the tracking number and it'll be here tomorrow. It's very easy to put together and I'll show pics once I get it done.

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11 Apr 2017 17:39 #26 by Phoenix
Hi Alpharalpha,

Do you know of any resource that would have detailed information on Radium and TG's Blended Talalay? Here's the "knot:" I've read a lot about TG having quality control issues in the past but that's not as much of an issue lately. Tied into that is people saying how much softening TG Talalay goes thru, and people saying that the TGT was more conforming than the radium and others saying the Radium was firmer than the TG, that TG uses fillers where Radium doesn't.

This question is brought up every so often. Both Talalay Global and Radium make very high quality Talalay latex in both blended and 100% natural versions as well as various specialty formulations. Talalay Global has a bigger market share in North America and Radium is more common in Europe although you will find Talalay latex made by both manufacturers in North America.

Some of the manufacturers I know tend to lean towards Radium because their latex has been more consistent and had fewer quality control issues back a few years ago especially in the softer ILDs (see post #2 here ) but TG appears to have addressed the sporadic quality issues that they have had and this doesn't seem to be an issue any longer so in "real life" terms I would treat them as equals.

They are both available in either 100% natural or in a 30/70 blend (NR/SBR) and in practical terms I would treat them as being comparable in terms of durability.

The firmness of each would depend on whether you were comparing the same ILD's

Talalay Global blended Talalay comes in target ILD's of 14, 19, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, & 44. You can see the approximate density of each of these in post #2 here .

Radium blended Talalay comes in target ILD's (rounded to the closest whole number) of 11, 15, 19, 22, 25, 29, 34, & 40.

Talalay Global uses a filler in their latex formula while Radium doesn't.

Talalay Global 100% natural Talalay comes in N1 (14 - 19), N2 (20 - 24), N3 (25 - 29), N4 (30 - 34), & N5 (35 - 42) with nominal midpoints of about 17, 22, 27, 32, 38.

Radium 100% natural has ILD targets (rounded to the closest whole number) of 9, 13, 18, 23, 28, 33, 39, and 44

You can see a chart for Radium's ILD range here .

Most of the manufacturers that I've talked that work extensively with both say that they have a comparable "feel" although of course this is subjective. The difference between them would be relatively small and would probably reflect the different ILD's, amount of filler, and any other differences in compounding formulas and pincore patterns they have.

I even found some info that one company more recently had a 6% warranty issues (indentations, compression, etc) with TG, but 16% with Radium, and much higher with Dunlop latex.

I couldn’t speak to the veracity of any return rates of any foam or products, and the accurate numbers (the ones kept by the actual foam manufacturers) are not shared publicly, so I would treat such data with an appropriate level of caution.

Technical data on the two blended talalays would really help me out.

The actual makeup of all of the components used to make these foams would be proprietary and closely held secrets of each manufacturer, so that data wouldn’t be available.

Oh and when I went to put the kd frame together there was one of those whorled knots that formed a crack right across one of the bed rails and I feared the worse since I bought it 3 months ago you know how these things can go, sometimes they can't get a single part so you have to ship it all back or it has to break then you pay return shipping, but Decor and more were an A1 pleasure, I showed them some pics of it and they said they'd have one shipped out from the manufacturer and that was Sat and Mon I got the tracking number and it'll be here tomorrow. It's very easy to put together and I'll show pics once I get it done.

I’m glad you they took care of you so well with your frame!

Phoenix

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17 Apr 2017 23:00 #27 by Alpharalpha
I wonder what positive purpose TG using fillers serve?
If I get a latex mattress It'd most likely be Mattresses.net's 2 sided 36ild blended talalay. I like that it's sealed shut and a solid 6" slab of latex. But, I've had some issues with latex's biodegradability and originally when I posted on this site it was with the intent of building a polyfoam mattress as I was familiar with the material, though not with HR foam, just HQ/HD. If I go with a foam mattress it'd most likely be foamonline with their HR 30 in a 6" piece. I had read once on here to make sure foamonline's product matched up to what one received, this HR foam is supposed to be 2.8 lbs. And the seller told me that a friend of his found the 6" hr30 too firm for side sleeping and after adding 1" hr20 it was fine. I thought the hr30 would be too soft if anything comparing it to my hd36 couch cushions. What do you think?

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18 Apr 2017 10:33 #28 by Phoenix
Hi alpharalpha,

I wonder what positive purpose TG using fillers serve?


Filler is used in latex (and other foams) as part of a way to achieve a specific feel/characteristic in a foam and also to lower production costs, but not at a point to diminish product performance over the life of a mattress.

But, I've had some issues with latex's biodegradability


I’m not sure what you mean by this. Natural latex is biodegradable, but the finished foam isn’t (you wouldn’t want your mattress crumbling beneath you :cheer: ). Over time liquid natural rubber is biodegradable, but the finished foam product isn’t as it is part of product made of molecules that can not easily be undone. In degradation studies, the latex does break down into smaller and smaller units and would eventually be to a size that you couldn’t see it any more, but this would be more correctly termed as deteriorating instead of biodegrading. This is of course in studies with the foam being buried in the earth or a similar environment. Latex foam itself is a very durable product.

I thought the hr30 would be too soft if anything comparing it to my hd36 couch cushions. What do you think?


If the density and thickness of the foam is the same, the 30 IFD/ILD would be softer feeling than the 36 IFD/ILD, but just as in my previous replies, I wouldn’t be able to "feel what you feel" and be able to tell you if you might think it was too soft for your own personal use. Only you’d be able to determine that through your own personal testing.

Phoenix

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21 Apr 2017 10:44 #29 by Alpharalpha
Would you have a link to High Resilience Cold Cure PU Foam Specifications? I am still considering the latex but the more I learn about this HR foam I think it may be an alternative but the seller I'm considering (foam online) is the only specifications I have to go by: Specifications:
Weight: 3.0 lb. per cubic ft.
Quality: excellent
Longevity: approx. 12 years
Density lbs/cu. ft.: Minimum 2.50
ILD/50 sq. in. @25%(4 in.) 35% max.
Support Factor: 2.5
Hysterisis Loss @25% 35% max.
Tear Strength, lbs/linear in. 1.50 PLI min.
Tensile Strength, lbs/sq. in. 12.0 PSI min.
Elongation, % 150% min.
Resilience, % 50% min.
Compression set,
90%, 22 hrs., 158° F Less than 10%
Color 110 - Yellow

Thank you, I've been looking and looking and can not find specs on this kind of foam to compare.

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21 Apr 2017 14:22 #30 by Phoenix
Hi alphralpha,

Would you have a link to High Resilience Cold Cure PU Foam Specifications?


I’m not quite sure what extra information that you’re looking to acquire, as what you posted here is already quite detailed. The density offered is above 2.5 lb, and the Support Factor is above 2.4, so this is part of the classification of a true High Resiliency polyfoam.

Cold Cure is the process used to make the polyfoam (cures without additional heat being added), as opposed to Hot Cure. There’s a bit more information about that here and here that may be interesting to you.

Phoenix

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