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normal Getting closer to diy mattress build, need some advice please

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29 May 2017 00:44 - 29 May 2017 03:30 #51 by Alpharalpha

The mattress protector I mentioned states "1ml thick polyurethane waterproof layer" is that typical/good? And they do say "Please note: This Protector is meant to handle only small amounts of liquid that are addressed immediately. Larger amounts of liquid..." it did sleep cool which was a big concern. I mentioned vinyl as a truly waterproof protector, not as a viable option.
Regarding the pic with the encased samples, I just did this to be able to test out the different densities/ types of latex; it's been a useful tool that way. While I don't have 1.5" joma wool to test, I do have a wool flatweave kilim rug w' a linen backing, do you think this would work to just give a basic approximation if I put this over the encasement as to how the joma wool coverered one would feel compared to as I have it now, like you said it doesn't take away much from the point elasticity of the latex. This is the thing, if I'm going to use a topper I'd like it to merge with the latex mattress as well as possible which suggests to me that the stretch knit encasement is best, but the finished mattress with the wool, finished tape edge--and looking closely at the pic the cover material seems a better quality, probably getting a better actual mattress from mattresses.net, but don't know how much that wool is going to stop the 2 layers of latex interacting. 1.5" wool that you say compresses over time seems like a significant hindrance to contact with the latex, FR isn't an issue for me. Price is the same: I can get the stretch knit 2 sided mattress encasement for $130 from Foam Order, and I think a 6" blended talalay core is around $500, and the finished mattress is $625 (both have shipping costs that bring it up to $700.) That seems to be the bottom line price wise as even if I went with Sleep EZ's 7000 with a firm dunlop, med talalay it also costs $700 shipped--while not 2 sided this company has a lot of appeal with the layer exchange, different layer density vs solid core and return policy. They also have a stretch knit w/o the wool, here is a pic

like foam order, no case edge and only one sided, otherwise seems about the same. Oh and one other thing; sleepez' site suggests for my size in the 10000 model (3 layers--since I plan on adding a topper...) it had two 3" med (around 30 ild) with a bottom firm layer. So I was wondering if buying the finished mattress from mattresses.net in med (32) and putting a 3" firm (maybe dunlop) layer on the bottom which is pretty much the same as sleepez' saying two 3" med layers with a firm on the bottom. Then I would be using any benefits the wool might be providing. Instead of the firm (36) with a 24 topper. I will be making my purchase this coming month so it's getting down to specifics.

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Last Edit: 29 May 2017 03:30 by Alpharalpha.

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29 May 2017 09:00 #52 by Phoenix

Hi Alpharalpha,

The mattress protector I mentioned states "1ml thick polyurethane waterproof layer" is that typical/good? And they do say "Please note: This Protector is meant to handle only small amounts of liquid that are addressed immediately. Larger amounts of liquid..."


I wouldn’t have a way of determining the quality of the mattress protector you’re referencing, as there are differences in the type of polyurethane used and how it is bonded to the fabric encasement also varies, as well as the quality of the fabric used. What you’ve described is not a waterproof encasement, but one that is water-resistant. Waterproof wouldn’t require the spill to be mopped up quickly.

but don't know how much that wool is going to stop the 2 layers of latex interacting. 1.5" wool that you say compresses over time seems like a significant hindrance to contact with the latex, FR isn't an issue for me


Wool isn’t a “hindrance” to the latex , but it can add a slight firmness, which would be most evident in the layer directly against your skin and not as noticeable deeper down in the mattress. All of the layers will still work together, but your mass is spread out over a wider area deeper down in the mattress.

sleepez' site suggests for my size in the 10000 model (3 layers--since I plan on adding a topper...) it had two 3" med (around 30 ild) with a bottom firm layer. So I was wondering if buying the finished mattress from mattresses.net in med (32) and putting a 3" firm (maybe dunlop) layer on the bottom which is pretty much the same as sleepez' saying two 3" med layers with a firm on the bottom. Then I would be using any benefits the wool might be providing. Instead of the firm (36) with a 24 topper. I will be making my purchase this coming month so it's getting down to specifics.


The questions you’re asking are getting back into the category again of me trying to predict how something might feel to you, which as I’ve discussed previously I can’t do. Unless all the layers, including the encasement, are the same, anything you change will alter the overall comfort of a mattress. But in this case you’re creating your own DIY product and you don’t have a frame of reference, so unless you were very experienced and skilled in mattress building and the materials used within such a mattress (which would be an incredibly small percentage of the population), I would not try to predict too much from technical details how a mattress will feel but instead rely upon the guidance of experienced and knowledgeable retailers or manufacturers, or copy a known specification that you have already tried.

Phoenix


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02 Jun 2017 07:08 - 02 Jun 2017 07:20 #53 by Alpharalpha

Here is a pic of the 2 sided mattress encasement that foam order would make for me (except in twin xl shape.) The pic I sent you before was just a similar look as I couldn't find their actual pic they'd sent me. So this is it

($130 + shipping.)
At this point a diy project is not my first choice, think of it like checking an algebra problem, going backwards to check my work. The answer I have come up with would be to get the sewn mattress from mattresses.net: 2 sided 6" blended talalay core (36 ild) with 1.5" wool, stretch knit cover; and put a 24 ild topper over that which is what the seller of the mattress suggested paired with the 36 ild mattress (though I think a 28 ild would do it 24 is what's been recommended.) I've seen a cutout of the wool in a latex mattress and can see, especially in the sides, how it gives the mattress more structure, and like you mentioned the wool spreads the pressure out over the surface, that's probably actually good so all my weight doesn't go into one spot, kinda like bonnell coils compared to pocketed springs. I wish I could find a different seller for a 2 sided topper at the price point of ultimate sleep $80 shipped. Do you know of any sellers that might offer a 2 sided topper cover; also do you know sellers of radium 6" cores, as well as toppers, 2,3, 4" etc?
My only alternative interest in a diy at this stage is that their wouldn't be that wool blocking the 2 layers of latex from working together, etc. You've mentioned Talalay Global uses a filler in their blended talalay, do you know any more details on that? Is it common for blended talalay in general to undergo a significant softening at around the 6 month mark, because reading reviews online I've come across this a lot and it's been associated with TG, but that could just be because so many sellers use them here in the USA. Though I haven't read any complaints about Radium's blended talalay.

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Last Edit: 02 Jun 2017 07:20 by Alpharalpha.

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02 Jun 2017 12:16 #54 by Phoenix

Hi Alpharalpha,

Regarding covers, you already have a link to my listing of some of the better component suppliers of which I am aware vendors in the component post here . You’d have to phone the cover suppliers to see what they offer, as they often will offer items not shown on their web sites.

You've mentioned Talalay Global uses a filler in their blended talalay, do you know any more details on that?


It’s common for latex manufacturers to use some filler in their product at a level that doesn’t diminish product performance but does lower production costs. There are many types of fillers used industry-wide. I believe feldspar was used years ago in some of the TG blended latex, but I’m not sure now.

Is it common for blended talalay in general to undergo a significant softening at around the 6 month mark, because reading reviews online I've come across this a lot and it's been associated with TG, but that could just be because so many sellers use them here in the USA. Though I haven't read any complaints about Radium's blended talalay.


It's common for all foams, even latex, to soften with use over time. I’m not aware of any current “issues” with the latex from Talalay Global or Radium, and I would consider the product from both manufacturers to be a high quality and durable material.

Phoenix


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13 Oct 2017 01:40 #55 by Alpharalpha

What is the deal with hr foams at a 2.0 lb density? I've read 2.5 lb is the minimum; is it possible to make a true hr foam at 2.0 lb? I wouldn't buy it but I see it from multiple sellers and am just wondering?

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13 Oct 2017 14:13 #56 by Phoenix

Hi alpharaplha,

What is the deal with hr foams at a 2.0 lb density? I've read 2.5 lb is the minimum; is it possible to make a true hr foam at 2.0 lb?


High resiliency polyfoam would be at least 2.5 lb in density with a compression modulus of at least 2.4. See page 4 of this article describing it from the Polyurethane Foam Association.

Phoenix


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16 Oct 2017 04:20 #57 by Alpharalpha

I've seen several sellers--even a manufacturer--selling what they're calling a hr foam even though the density is only 2.0 lbs, do you know what they are selling, is it foam with the same cell structure as hr but with a lower density or an altogether different foam? I wouldn't buy it, but am curious as to what it is?

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16 Oct 2017 12:03 #58 by Phoenix

Hi alpharalpha,

Technically, high resilience foam is defined as 2.5 lb in density, at least 60% ball rebound, and a support factor of at least 2.4. You can see the definition in Section IV, number 13, of the IABFLO Classification of Filling Materials . With that being said, I’ve seen manufacturers use the term for slightly lower densities, just as is sometimes seen with “High Density” polyfoam. I think any specific questions about the actual density, ball rebound, support factor, or other properties would best be addressed to the particular foam pourer or seller you were considering.

Phoenix


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16 Oct 2017 19:43 #59 by Alpharalpha

I understand now. Thanks.

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17 Oct 2017 11:01 #60 by Phoenix

Hi alpharalpha,

You're welcome!

Phoenix


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