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DIY All-Latex Questions 13 Jan 2017 14:15 #1

Phoenix et al,

I am attempting a DIY build and have a few questions. I have been looking forever, big time analysis paralysis. I finally had an opportunity to try a few all-latex mattresses locally, From this experience and TMU, I have decided I want to purchase a latex mattress, at-least 9 inches thick and close to a standard medium construction. The $3700.00 mattress I enjoyed locally was a medium construction blended talalay line (Jamison).

I am trying to do this on a budget, and have found I can get three 3-inch toppers of all-natural talalay latex, indirectly sourced from latex international, for around $1150.00, Add an encasing for $250 or so, and this $1400.00 seems significantly cheaper for 9 inches of all-natural talalay than even a dunlop or blended pre-built from any reputable brand in this thickness, and way cheaper than any all-natural talalay I have found. My questions are:

First, is there any disadvantage to using two 3-inch toppers as a support core instead of a solid piece 6 inch core?

Second, can you recommend a couple of potential ILD configurations? I am looking for something close to a "standard" medium or medium-firm construction using 3 layers. I was thinking (bottom to top) Firm-30-34 ILD/Medium-25-29 ILD/Medium-25-29 ILD or Firm/Medium/Soft-20-24 ILD. I realize comfort is different for everyone, just curious about what would be considered within the normal range for a 3 layer medium-medium firm construction.

Third, can you recommend a few good value retailers for an encasement that would fit over 9 inches in king size? My main priority here is sleeping cool.

Finally, any contingencies with DIY I made not have considered?

Thank you for this great resource and any advice you or any readers can offer.

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Last edit: by OverAnalyzingThis. Reason: price typo

DIY All-Latex Questions 13 Jan 2017 15:47 #2

Hi OverAnalyzingThis,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

I am attempting a DIY build and have a few questions. I have been looking forever, big time analysis paralysis

Your screen name says it all – hopefully I can help out with that a bit! :lol:

I finally had an opportunity to try a few all-latex mattresses locally, From this experience and TMU, I have decided I want to purchase a latex mattress, at-least 9 inches thick and close to a standard medium construction. The $3700.00 mattress I enjoyed locally was a medium construction blended talalay line (Jamison).

An all-latex mattress certainly would contain high-quality and durable materials and be an excellent choice for a premium mattress. While there is no “standard medium construction”, were you able to gather the specifications of the Jamison mattress that you liked? One of my best recommendations for building a DIY mattress is to use the specifications of a mattress you’ve tested and enjoyed and a starting point, or alternatively use a "bottom up" approach (see post #2 here ).

I am trying to do this on a budget, and have found I can get three 3-inch toppers of all-natural talalay latex, indirectly sourced from latex international, for around $11150.00,

I’m guessing you meant $1150.00, not $11,500.00! :ohmy: Otherwise, we might have to have a talk about exactly what was in that latex!

Talalay Global (formerly Latex International) produces 100% NR and blended Talalay. Radium would be another company that produces Talalay. One of the advantages with sourcing foam layers and a cover from different suppliers is that you can sometimes piece together a product at a lower overall price, The disadvantage can be that you won’t have the advantage of using the experience of a manufacturer that may have decades of experience in helping people with various combinations that tend to work well with a DIY product, the ability to exchange/return the product, and that your product may not meet federal flammability guidelines (this may or may not be important to many people). These would all be part of your own personal value equation that you’d want to examine and rate.

First, is there any disadvantage to using two 3-inch toppers as a support core instead of a solid piece 6 inch core?

When you say toppers, I’m assuming you simply mean two pieces of 3” Talalay foam versus one 6” piece (not separately encased 3” pieces).

This question gets asked quite a bit. There would be little if any practical difference between two 3" support layers and a single 6" support layer if they were all the same type and blend of latex and the same ILD and were inside a tight fitting cover with 3" inches of latex of the same ILD on top of them. Two 3" layers would respond a little more independently and because the elasticity of the top 3" wouldn't be connected and "pulling back" on the bottom 3" when it compresses and "in theory" it may act a little bit softer but in practical and real life terms most people wouldn't notice any difference in terms of performance or firmness. If a single 6" core with a 3" comfort layer was a good match for you in terms of PPP then there would be little benefit in having multiple 3" layers that were the equivalent ILD.

Also in "theory only" ... two 3" layers that were exactly the same ILD as a single 6" layer could be less durable over the course of a long lifetime because they will act more independently and abrade each other slightly but I don't think that any difference would be significant or even measurable in "real life" terms and the other factors that affect durability (see post #4 here ) such as the firmness of the layers would play a much bigger role. It certainly wouldn't be a concern of mine.

Multiple layers would have more options for fine tuning though both before and after a purchase because for example a support core with a medium over firm layer would be a little firmer than a medium layer and a little softer than a firm layer (closer to the medium) and you would also have the option to rearrange the layers to firm over medium which would still be in between a medium and firm 6" layer but closer to the firm. You could also use the softer top layer in the middle to create a firmer feel compared to having the soft on top. The main advantage of having more layers in other words is that for those who need it can provide more options to customize the layer combinations either before a purchase or by rearranging or exchanging layers after a purchase. While this is attractive to some people ... it can also add some complexity that may not be necessary or may not justify any extra costs involved in having more layers for others.

Second, can you recommend a couple of potential ILD configurations? I am looking for something close to a "standard" medium or medium-firm construction using 3 layers. I was thinking (bottom to top) Firm-30-34 ILD/Medium-25-29 ILD/Medium-25-29 ILD or Firm/Medium/Soft-20-24 ILD. I realize comfort is different for everyone, just curious about what would be considered within the normal range for a 3 layer medium-medium firm construction.

While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress. There are just too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial ) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

Both of the combinations you listed use what most in the industry would consider a basic “firm” base layer at 30-34 ILD, with a common transition layer at 25-29 ILD. Of course the difference in the upper layer, which will be the most noticeable in your overall comfort, would be the largest decision. The firm/medium/medium would tend to have a bit more of a firmer overall feel and more popular generally with back and stomach sleepers. The firm/medium/plush you described would generally tend to be more common with side/back sleepers. But again, these are generalities and what might work best for you could be totally different.

Third, can you recommend a few good value retailers for an encasement that would fit over 9 inches in king size? My main priority here is sleeping cool.

There is a good group of mattress cover suppliers in post #4 here , about half way down in the post. In very general terms, the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin. Natural fibers, like covers that use cotton and wool, are very good at temperature regulation, but some of them can be stiff and firm up the feel of your mattress. Stretch-knit covers are popular as well, don’t generally change the feel of the mattress as much and most are quite breathable, but may not have the integrity, durability, or level of natural materials than some of the other covers may offer. Overall, there are quite a few quality choices available of both styles.

Finally, any contingencies with DIY I made not have considered?

Well, that’s a loaded question with a million possible replies!:woohoo:

My advice is when building your own DIY mattress out of separate components that are purchased from one or several different sources, be sure to pay attention to option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project ... the best approach to a DIY mattress is a "spirit of adventure" where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

I look forward to learning about our process and what you decide to do.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

DIY All-Latex Questions 14 Jan 2017 02:55 #3

These are tough decisions. Hope you find what your looking for Broklyn Bedding was wonderful.

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Last edit: by barneycalhoun.

DIY All-Latex Questions 14 Jan 2017 08:05 #4

I have been on a similar quest, and through this forum found mayersbedding.com
Might be cheaper, Their blended Talalay is 70% synthetic / 30% natural.

I prefer a slightly firmer mattress. I am 195lbs side/back sleeper and my spouse is 180lbs stomach sleeper. (SleepEZ website recommended XFirm/Firm/Med/Med or Firm/Med/Med)

I really need to make up my mind TODAY. My current bed (which is a polyfoam DIY from over 12 years ago) is really starting to bother my back. My husband is a stomach sleeper and has been complaining about our current bed for a couple of years.

My biggest outstanding question is 100% Natural Talalay vs. Blended Talalay. I am willing to pay more for the more "natural" option but only if I'm not giving up durability. I also wonder if the bottom layer should be dunlop for increase durability.

Curious to see what you choose!

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DIY All-Latex Questions 14 Jan 2017 12:05 #5

Hi barneycalhoun,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

I believe these are blended Talalay (40% nat /60% syn)

The blended Talalay Latex from Talalay Global (formerly Latex International) is 70/30, SBR/NR.

I believe these are blended Talalay (40% nat /60% syn)
The price is $404 for a 3 inch King. Minus 10% discount.
12 inches is $1455 plus a 12 inch bamboo cover for about $300 elsewhere.

The toppers from mattresstopper.com all come with their own covering, so as you stated you’d need to one larger covering to encase your total mattress. These are generally used on top of an existing mattress, but some people do like to have their individual foam layers individually wrapped in a component mattress.

I'll be using ILD 36,36,28, 19. I suppose if I want firmer, I can re-stack the ILD 19 below the 28. If I want softer, add a topper. I weigh 185 (side+back) & wife 140 (back). I think we like softer side. We can always try 21 and move up the 19 to a topper.

That’s one of the nice things about a component system – the ability to customize and experiment with different feels.

Anyway, if anyone has cheaper source, please say so.

Some of the better options of which I am aware for toppers and component latex foam pieces are located in the component post here .

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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DIY All-Latex Questions 14 Jan 2017 12:18 #6

Hi mosh513,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

My biggest outstanding question is 100% Natural Talalay vs. Blended Talalay. I am willing to pay more for the more "natural" option but only if I'm not giving up durability. I also wonder if the bottom layer should be dunlop for increase durability.

This question is asked quite a bit, and you can read quite bit more about the difference between SBR and NR rubber in post #2 here .

All latex foam you encounter, (SBR, NR, SBR/NR, Dunlop, Talalay) will be a very high quality and durable material. The choice between Dunlop or Talalay for the core will be more one of personal preference and potential price differences. Dunlop, in the same ILD range as a corresponding piece of Talalay, will tend to have a bit more “dense” feel, which is why many people prefer it for the lower layers of a component mattress. You can read more about Dunlop (of either type) vs Talalay latex in post #7 here .

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

DIY All-Latex Questions 16 Jan 2017 12:03 #7

Tried out some beds and decided on my firmness combinations. Really like the Savvy Rest configuration with Med Talalay over Med Dunlop over Firm Dunlop. Glad I tried them as the All-Talalay was way to "bouncy" and the All-Dunlop was too "dead".

My biggest challenge is that my husband recently lost his job, but we REALLY need a new mattress. I have some money set aside, but I don't want to spend more than necessary. The mattress store salesman where I went yesterday (not associated with this website) was so pushy about using financing. It was such a big turn-off. A couple of weeks ago I visited Jeff at Mattress To Go, and he was fantastic. Since I knew I was only shopping to "try out" mattresses, I didn't want to take up more of Jeff's time, so I drove to this other store to lay on a Savvy Rest. That salesman could have learned a lot from Jeff. If you live in southeast Michigan, check out Jeff. He is the real deal. He pointed me to SleepEZ and Brooklyn Bedding instead of trying to convince me to spend more than I was comfortable with.

Now I start the build!
Our king bed currently has box springs on the bottom, with peg board mounted to slats to flatten and firm out the surface. Since the bed is a sleigh bed, it requires some sort of box to keep the mattress at the correct height, so I am hoping to keep using the box springs and either add to or replace the peg board with a slatted base. Or perhaps just putting a bed red between the peg board and mattress might be enough?

Mayers bedding has a great price on the NR Talalay layer. I sent them a message to see if they can also order the Dunlop, but haven't heard back yet.

I like the cotton/wool cover that SleepEZ carriers. Might see if I can find something a little bit less expensive.

Hopefully I will have a new mattress soon :silly:

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DIY All-Latex Questions 16 Jan 2017 15:15 #8

mosh513:

A couple of weeks ago I visited Jeff at Mattress To Go, and he was fantastic. Since I knew I was only shopping to "try out" mattresses, I didn't want to take up more of Jeff's time, so I drove to this other store to lay on a Savvy Rest. That salesman could have learned a lot from Jeff. If you live in southeast Michigan, check out Jeff. He is the real deal. He pointed me to SleepEZ and Brooklyn Bedding instead of trying to convince me to spend more than I was comfortable with.


I'm happy that I could provide you some good advice and you were able to get some good information from your visit to my store. Thank you for your kind words. Good luck in your search.

Jeff Scheuer
Mattress To Go
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
Researching for a mattress?... read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Trusted Members

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DIY All-Latex Questions 16 Jan 2017 15:38 #9

Hi mosh513,

Tried out some beds and decided on my firmness combinations. Really like the Savvy Rest configuration with Med Talalay over Med Dunlop over Firm Dunlop. Glad I tried them as the All-Talalay was way to "bouncy" and the All-Dunlop was too "dead".

That is a common description that people have of Dunlop versus Talalay. The covering on the Savvy Rest also has an impact on the feel of the product, being a bit thicker/stiffer than many of the covers used on all-latex mattresses.

My biggest challenge is that my husband recently lost his job, but we REALLY need a new mattress

I’m sorry to hear about that. I hope he has good luck in finding a new job.

I have some money set aside, but I don't want to spend more than necessary. The mattress store salesman where I went yesterday (not associated with this website) was so pushy about using financing. It was such a big turn-off

Unfortunately, too many retail stores are more interested in selling you financing than actually helping you find a mattress that meets your needs! :angry:

A couple of weeks ago I visited Jeff at Mattress To Go, and he was fantastic. He pointed me to SleepEZ and Brooklyn Bedding instead of trying to convince me to spend more than I was comfortable with.

I’m glad you were able to get some good advice from Jeff. He is a member here, which means that I think highly of him. If you’re looking for more affordable latex options than Savvy Rest, his recommendations for SleepEZ or Brooklyn Bedding were certainly good ones. Both of these companies are members here, and I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.

Our king bed currently has box springs on the bottom, with peg board mounted to slats to flatten and firm out the surface.

Please make sure that your bed set slats are properly reinforced, as if they aren’t they will still sag under the weight of a mattress, even with pegboard on top of it. If you need help with that, feel free to post photos of what the support looks like under your mattress and I can offer some suggestions.

Additionally, you’ll need to make sure that your foundation (what you’re referring to as the box springs) are flat and firm and do not flex. Box springs contain actual coiled springs on the inside, and while these would be inappropriate for almost all latex mattresses, I’m guessing you don’t have this. More than likely you have some sort of a foundation made of wood with 6-9 slats on top (perhaps with a cardboard deck on top of the slats) wrapped in fabric, or you have a version of a metal “semi-flex” metal cage that is rigid wrapped in fabric. Again, if you are unsure, feel free to attach photos of what you have and I can do my best to decipher it for you.

Mayers bedding has a great price on the NR Talalay layer. I sent them a message to see if they can also order the Dunlop, but haven't heard back yet.

I believe all they offer is Talalay layers from Talalay Global.

I like the cotton/wool cover that SleepEZ carriers. Might see if I can find something a little bit less expensive.

If you’re considering making your own mattress and want Dunlop, SleepEZ you mentioned earlier does have Dunlop options. If you want to mix components from different companies, you may wish to look at the different vendors in the component post here . There is a separate section for latex layers as well as mattress covers.

I’ll be interested to learn about your progress and the direction you decide to head.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

DIY All-Latex Questions 17 Jan 2017 07:18 #10

Thanks for the reply Phoenix! I will provide an update whenever progress is made. Any thoughts on Mayers Bedding that has been mentioned here a few times? Any other users with Mayers experience?

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Last edit: by OverAnalyzingThis.
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