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Coil Confusion 04 Feb 2017 07:49 #1

Hey all,
I've had a bit of trouble with mattresses over the past 2 years. I moved to a new city to begin medical residency, and since that time I've slept poorly. Some of it is due to residency and the 100 hour weeks, but even when I have time to sleep I'm not sleeping well. I tried a Tuft and Needle mattress last year and this did not work for me. I've since tried a few others with no success. I eventually hit upon the fact that I tended to sleep better on spring mattresses at hotels, and so went with one from US-Mattress. Namely this one: www.us-mattress.com/spring-air-hotel-grand-traverse-pl.html

It seemed like a good idea and slept well for the first month. Though now I have two problems- first, despite assurance that the foam was high density (1.5lb-1.8lb), I now sort of fall through the foam to contact the hard springs underneath. And second, the coils seem to buckle under my hips despite only six months of ownership. Despite assurance that is zoned, my hips definitely sink much more than my shoulders, and this throws me into weird contorted positions. I am a light person at 140lbs, so I'm a bit confused as to why this is happening. In trying to understand this, I've looked at various coil systems and gone as far as calling Leggett and Platt, but this really hasn't provided much useful information. After trying to make this bed work for a while I'm finally coming to terms with needing a new one, but I don't know where to look.

So... here are my questions. Is there a better coil system for what I am looking for? I'm a light person and a stomach and side sleeper. I'm looking at a local manufacturer (the only one), that makes a bed with a 364PE Bonnell coil, but I've been told that coil unit might be too firm for my size. So I'm not sure. I've considered DreamFoam, but I haven't slept well on foam beds previously. Would give it another shot of course, as I need to improve my sleep.

Here are the other beds I'm looking at (namely the J Thomas and Exquisite): www.capitalbed.com/residential.html . Despite the data sheets, both seem to use the 364PE now. I've also considered the Restonic Line on USMattress, but I'm tired of purchasing beds sight unseen.

Thanks all!

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Last edit: by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Coil Confusion 04 Feb 2017 10:26 #2

Hi EnFuego,

I’m sorry you’ve had some tough times finding a mattress that’s comfortable. Perhaps I can offer some new advice for you.

I eventually hit upon the fact that I tended to sleep better on spring mattresses at hotels, and so went with one from US-Mattress. Namely this one: spring air grand traverse. It seemed like a good idea and slept well for the first month. Though now I have two problems- first, despite assurance that the foam was high density (1.5lb-1.8lb), I now sort of fall through the foam to contact the hard springs underneath.

When you’re sleeping better at a hotel, it’s more often than not an indicator that your current mattress is in poor condition, as opposed to the appropriateness for you of the specific mattress you tried at the hotel. Some people certainly do prefer a firmer innerspring product, which is commonly what is found at hotels.

Per the guidance you received about the foam, true high density foam is 1.8 lb and I would be extremely doubtful that the mattress you purchased had anything approaching that quality of foam. And the fact that you are already impressing quite deeply within your comfort layers would tend to bear this out.

The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

And second, the coils seem to buckle under my hips despite only six months of ownership. Despite assurance that is zoned, my hips definitely sink much more than my shoulders, and this throws me into weird contorted positions.

Generally speaking, the innerspring unit within the mattress is not the weak link, even a more basic LFK spring like what your mattress is represented as having. Additionally, it would be difficult to tell if the sinking feeling was truly due to the spring unit in a completed mattress, as most of the “sinking” you’re feeling is from the surface materials. If there was zoning on this unit, it would more than likely be just a little extra in the middle third and generally not something you’d fell too much in a finished mattress. And on your side, sinking in a bit more with the hips is generally normal. Which all leads me back to the quality of the comfort materials in this mattress. (And all of this is assuming you are placing these mattresses upon a firm and flat surface.)

There is more about primary or "deep" support and secondary or "surface" support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the "roles" of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between "support" and "pressure relief" and "feel". Post #16 also talks about different innerspring designs how they work.

So... here are my questions. Is there a better coil system for what I am looking for? I'm a light person and a stomach and side sleeper. I'm looking at a local manufacturer (the only one), that makes a bed with a 364PE Bonnell coil, but I've been told that coil unit might be too firm for my size

Having a good and strong spring unit is desirable for good support and alignment, especially when you sleep prone at times. But most of your actual “comfort” is derived from the surface materials placed on top of the spring unit.

The best advice I can offer you is to tap “pause” for a moment and start by reading the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

While nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else or whether it will be a good "match" in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress ... outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

Here are the other beds I'm looking at (namely the J Thomas and Exquisite) . Despite the data sheets, both seem to use the 364PE now.

I can only offer with the “how” to choose, and the references I listed above will assist you with that. The spring unit you listed can certainly be a durable unit, but I would be most interested in the amounts and quality of the padding materials in the two mattresses you mentioned. You mentioned that the data sheets online aren’t accurate for the spring unit, so I can’t assume they are accurate for the foam layers as well. Even if they were, there was little meaningful information about the density of the foams used within the mattress, so I’d recommend a visit to their showroom after you’ve read through the mattress shopping guide. As you do sleep on your stomach at times, I would be cautious about choosing a product that is too soft on top, as this will accentuate your lordotic lumbar curvature and be quite uncomfortable and result in more frequent repositioning.

I’ll be interested in learning how you proceed.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Coil Confusion 04 Feb 2017 10:57 #3

I appreciate the response. At this point however, I'm just not sure where to go. The other manufacturer I linked was recommended to me by this website and the owner is honest and was willing to give me a tour of the facility. However, even he said that his foam was 1.5lb in density. I can't really find better quality around where I am at and I don't know where to go exactly. I'm in the New Orleans area.

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Coil Confusion 04 Feb 2017 11:58 #4

Also, as per the manufacturer's statement, the foam listing is accurate. 1.5lb density in both units. Obviously this isn't ideal, but Is it still a reasonable option?

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Coil Confusion 04 Feb 2017 14:42 #5

Hi EnFuego,

Also, as per the manufacturer's statement, the foam listing is accurate. 1.5lb density in both units. Obviously this isn't ideal, but Is it still a reasonable option?

Ideally, yes, I’d prefer a higher density foam. As they are a manufacturer, I’d visit them and see if they would be able to spec out a higher-quality product for you. Your own personal testing of course will be important for the overall comfort, but durability will be the key thing dictated by the foam density. If you’re looking for something that you're only needing to last for a few more years of medical school, then you may wish to “roll the dice” with the lower density foams. But if you’re planning on keeping the product for a longer time, I’d recommend better foams or another product.

In New Orleans, try www.beddingplusmattress.com/mattresses/ , as they carry Jamison which makes some high quality mattresses.

There are also several factory direct manufacturers in Baton Rouge, LA that are listed in post #191 here and a trip there to visit them may also be well worthwhile.

I’m interested in learning what you’re able to find out if you visit any of these facilities.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Coil Confusion 05 Feb 2017 08:12 #6

Thanks again for the help Phoenix. So the beds I've been looking at are actually from Capital Bedding, which is a manufacturer I found some time ago from the very link you supplied. I've met the owner and he's a great guy. I trust them, but I'm not sure how to request a specialty bed. I am not sure if they have 1.8 polyfoam on hand, and I do not have the experience to suggest how to go about layering or crafting this into an overall mattress. What do you think? I know that you can't estimate my specific needs, but I would appreciate some input into this. Would the feel be the same if we were to just swap the 1.5lb and 2x 1 1/4inch layers for 1.8lb density foams? Or I am asking things that cannot be known ahead of time?

Unfortunately, I can't drive back and forth from Baton Rouge with any frequency to test these due to a work schedule. I have gotten by with my current bed, but it's not really tolerable any longer. So I do need to make a change.

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Coil Confusion 05 Feb 2017 08:15 #7

The whole situation has me wishing that you made beds. Or that there was a manufacturer that was truly upfront about their product. As an aside, I have been to the Bedding Plus locations and have not been pleased with those experiences.

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Coil Confusion 05 Feb 2017 11:55 #8

Hi EnFuego,

Thanks again for the help Phoenix. So the beds I've been looking at are actually from Capital Bedding, which is a manufacturer I found some time ago from the very link you supplied. I've met the owner and he's a great guy. I trust them, but I'm not sure how to request a specialty bed. I am not sure if they have 1.8 polyfoam on hand, and I do not have the experience to suggest how to go about layering or crafting this into an overall mattress.

You wouldn’t be expected to design the mattress from scratch, but all you’d be asking them is if they offered anything with higher density foam, 1.8 lb or above. That would be it.

I know that you can't estimate my specific needs, but I would appreciate some input into this. Would the feel be the same if we were to just swap the 1.5lb and 2x 1 1/4inch layers for 1.8lb density foams? Or I am asking things that cannot be known ahead of time?

You’d have to go visit the showroom in person and see if you liked the feel of a particular product. If you did find one that you liked and it used lower density foams than what you would prefer, you would ask if they could create a similar feel using higher density foams. Realize than any change in foam layers, even if the replacement foam is the same ILD, will result in a slight change in comfort. Your best source of guidance for any change in comfort with potential foam layer replacements will be the manufacturer, as they will have the most experience with their own products.

Unfortunately, I can't drive back and forth from Baton Rouge with any frequency to test these due to a work schedule. I have gotten by with my current bed, but it's not really tolerable any longer. So I do need to make a change.

As you’re unable to visit Baton Rouge, besides the other business that I've already linked to in your area and my previous reply, your other option would be online and to use the experience and expertise of the members listed in post #21 here who are all very experienced and knowledgeable and specialize in providing the type of help and guidance on the phone that can help you make good choices. There are a wide range of latex and other options included in the choices there and I believe that all of them compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency. I didn’t mention this previously as you stated that you were tired of purchasing beds sight unseen. The good thing is that the members of this site carry products using higher quality materials than what you recently purchased form US-Mattress.

As an aside, I have been to the Bedding Plus locations and have not been pleased with those experiences.

I'm sorry to hear that, as there were a few Jamison mattresses listed on their site that might have been of interest to you.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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