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Brooklyn Bedding BME - no joy 18 Dec 2016 18:08 #1

Congrats on a robust, informative site. There's almost too much to absorb, but with so much marketing BS being propagated by the big guys and now even some of the new players, it's worth sifting through all the detail you've offered. Thanks.

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Brooklyn Bedding BME - no joy 18 Dec 2016 18:49 #2

Hiya! I have a long history of chronic illness, and I suffer from what some of us call "the princess and the pea syndrome." What that means is that even just a wrinkle in the sheet under a knee will have me limping half the day or longer. So I'm really sensitive to things like buttons on a mattress, etc. It has continued to worsen as I get older (though I am taking pretty good care of myself, all things considered), and my old S bed has broken down so badly that I can feel the insides. I bought a new queen bed not long ago (april), and I suffered pretty badly through the break-in period of about 3 or 4 days, but then it was...ok. But just ok, and ended up with a topper on top.

Fast forward a few months and we're in a new house, and we've claimed our territories, and I get to have a king bed in my life again! Hooray. So now the research begins.

I've been researching for a couple of months, watching reviews, reading what I can, and trying to discover what would be the best bed for me. Thank you for this site, it's super informative, and I love the nuance in all of your descriptions and responses. <3

I know I need/want soft. My best sleeping experience ever was an S bed with a down pillowtop. I'm a side sleeper. I'm 5'8" and around 175-ish (which honestly could change up or down and could put me in different weight categories easily, so I am keeping my eye on the warnings about beds that might not be so awesome for heavier sleepers).

I know I need/want cool sleeping. One word: menopause lol.

I decided I wanted to try what the Brooklyn Bedding had to offer, since they had a soft option, and I like the materials, but this is killing me. I think today is my last day before I can ask for a return, and I'm asking for a return. I am just not sure how the bed I got is classified as soft in any way at all. Maybe I haven't broken it in well enough yet? I definitely love the coolness of the bed, if nothing else. I'm just kind of frozen, though, because it's likely that whatever other bed I get will cause me pain during its break-in period.

My plan b was to try a cheaper option and add a down topper, myself. I looked at the Arctic Bed and some of the UD beds, but, tbh, I'm not real happy about my experience w/ BB and, from what I understand, it's the same company behind AD/UD, so...not really sure I want to try to deal with them again. (My issues with them lie in their customer service, ie, trying to find out what material the microfiber sheets were made of. "microfiber." yes, yes...anyway, had several experiences with them like this and am not happy (the answer is polyester, btw) I have 2 emails that I sent to them that were never answered. And the attitude I got from chat was to basically suck it up, which, I get, but it seems like if someone's in a trial period, you might want to reassure them that others have had the same issues and it's gotten better, or that maybe I should try something else, , just anything besides the canned 'there is a break-in period' (i knoww)).

Other beds I've been interested in are the Helix and the Novosbed, since they haft soft options. (though I've seen a lot of people say that the novosbed's soft isn't so soft, and well, I'm doing that movie right now, and am in agony and unable to leave my house).

Maybe a Helix, with a pillowtop in an order basket at the ready just in case.

Very interested in hearing from others who have RA, CFS/ME, Fibro and neck injuries about what materials may have helped. I know my body is different, even if all other things are equal, but I thought I'd ask this specifically. Thanks.

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Brooklyn Bedding BME - no joy 18 Dec 2016 19:01 #3

Oh, I remember a question I had: I have read that talalay blends are the softest out of all natural and synthetic and blends, but I haven't been able to locate info about which beds might have this blend. Anyone know of any?

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Brooklyn Bedding BME - no joy 19 Dec 2016 11:38 #4

Hi downlover,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

Hiya! I have a long history of chronic illness, and I suffer from what some of us call "the princess and the pea syndrome." What that means is that even just a wrinkle in the sheet under a knee will have me limping half the day or longer.


I’m sorry to hear that you have these health issues and are so sensitive to different comforts. I know that can be difficult.

I've been researching for a couple of months, watching reviews, reading what I can, and trying to discover what would be the best bed for me. Thank you for this site, it's super informative, and I love the nuance in all of your descriptions and responses. <3


I’m glad you like the information presented here. With such a specific health issue, I would advise you to test out items in person for the best results of “what is best for me”, as descriptors of products, while well intentioned, are generalizations and there are no overall “comfort scales” that are definitive, nor would it even be possible for such a scale to exist, as there are far too many individual variables involved (as you yourself already know with your specific health issues) to predict an overall level of comfort that would be applicable to everyone.

I know I need/want soft. My best sleeping experience ever was an S bed with a down pillowtop.


While I don’t generally recommend purchasing a new product and topper together unless there is a specific reason (as you’re mixing two variables at the same time), in your case, because of the specifics involved, it certainly may be that whatever you choose, you will respond best to a down layer on top of the item. When you suffer from chronic illnesses, if you find some sort of an application that works best for you, it is often the best that you stick with it. But you should always attempt to first find a product that best sits your needs without the use of a topper.

I decided I wanted to try what the Brooklyn Bedding had to offer, since they had a soft option, and I like the materials, but this is killing me. I think today is my last day before I can ask for a return, and I'm asking for a return. I am just not sure how the bed I got is classified as soft in any way at all. Maybe I haven't broken it in well enough yet?


If you’ve kept the product for the entire 120-night trial, then it would have already experienced quite a bit of “breaking in” and loss of “false firmness”. While all foams soften over time and lose a percentage of their resilience and support factor, the most dramatic change is normally within the first 6 months. As far as labelling this bed as “soft” you can refer back to my earlier comments about generic terms for rating mattresses in overall categories of comfort. This product would certainly be called “soft” by most people, but because of your unique situation, for you that may not be the case. But just because it isn’t "soft enough" for you doesn’t mean that it isn’t for the majority of people, which is what mattress companies need to consider when they create different levels of comfort. Which is another reason that your own personal careful testing will be the most accurate indicator of your happiness. Did you try this mattress with your down comforter?

I definitely love the coolness of the bed, if nothing else.


The latex used on top of this product is very breathable.

I'm just kind of frozen, though, because it's likely that whatever other bed I get will cause me pain during its break-in period.


Without testing out a product in person you won’t know for sure, as the initial level of comfort will be different for every completed mattress. All foams, even latex, will soften a bit as they are used. This is another reason I would suggest for you to try and test out mattress as much as possible in person.

My plan b was to try a cheaper option and add a down topper, myself. I looked at the Arctic Bed and some of the UD beds, but, tbh, I'm not real happy about my experience w/ BB and, from what I understand, it's the same company behind AD/UD, so...not really sure I want to try to deal with them again. (My issues with them lie in their customer service, ie, trying to find out what material the microfiber sheets were made of. "microfiber." yes, yes...anyway, had several experiences with them like this and am not happy (the answer is polyester, btw)


I’m not sure that going to a more basic foam mattress and adding a topper would be your best course of action, as again you’re mixing two variables and expecting the comfort to be achieved by their combination, as opposed to trying to find the best solution in a mattress alone. The Arctic Dreams is offered in three comfort designations, and the “softest” of these isn’t as plush as the soft option of the Best Mattress Ever (BME), so picking a mattress that you already know won’t be soft enough for you and then relying upon the unknown variable of how it will potentially work with the down topper is not a course that I normally recommend. You should try and find a product that is “close enough” to what you need by itself, so that in case any tweaks need to be applied, they can be done quite easily with something like a more simple change in mattress pad or the addition of a topper. But I wouldn’t consider purchasing something that you know right off the bat will need a topper to make it comfortable for you.

As far as the construction of the sheets you mentioned, it’s stated on the page for their sheets in the first sentence that they’re made out of Rayon . They use bamboo for the viscose dope, which results in a “softer hand” in the feel of the sheets. Microfiber just refers to the size of the fiber being smaller than a silk strand (one denier).

I have 2 emails that I sent to them that were never answered. And the attitude I got from chat was to basically suck it up, which, I get, but it seems like if someone's in a trial period, you might want to reassure them that others have had the same issues and it's gotten better, or that maybe I should try something else, , just anything besides the canned 'there is a break-in period' (i knoww)).


I always recommend that you place a phone call to any manufacturer when you have specific questions about a product, as it’s the best way to get detailed and specific answers, and to place follow up questions, especially when you have a specific situation such as yours. While some responses may seem “canned” when you chat online with companies, it doesn’t make them any less true (there certainly is a break-in time with any product). But with a phone call a representative can get a much better feel for your situation and you can each relate in “real-time” (and not have to interpret or attempt to infer anything from a typed response) and also get a better feel for the accuracy and applicability of the information you’re being provided to your specific request. Even if a company has thousands of instances where people successfully adjust to an item over time (Brooklyn Bedding certainly does), there would be no way to “reassure” you that this would indeed be the result for you. This is one of the myriad of reasons that other people’s reviews are one of the least reliable methods for choosing a mattress. It is of course your own personal experience and situation that is the most important thing.

Other beds I've been interested in are the Helix and the Novosbed, since they haft soft options. (though I've seen a lot of people say that the novosbed's soft isn't so soft, and well, I'm doing that movie right now, and am in agony and unable to leave my house).


Almost every brand will have a “soft” option in their lineup. The Novosbed is more of a traditional “memory foam style” of mattress, and their soft option uses a dense polyfoam on top of a memory foam layer and then a polyfoam core. This would have a different feel than the BME – perhaps a bit more “dead’ and sinking in just a bit more. Again, this is hard to qualify for each individual. The Helix uses an algorithm to help predict the different types of polyfoam and microcoils used to create the plushness you might desire. If you’re considering either company, I would first have a detailed phone conversation with them, letting them know what you’ve previously tried and what has or hasn’t worked, as that can serve as a good reference point for them. You should also ask at that time for confirmation of any exchange/return policies that each company offers (Novosbed offers a 120 night trial and Helix offers a 100-night sleep trial)

Very interested in hearing from others who have RA, CFS/ME, Fibro and neck injuries about what materials may have helped. I know my body is different, even if all other things are equal, but I thought I'd ask this specifically. Thanks..


While the comments of others in a similar situation might be useful so that you may see the process that they have gone through, I’d be very cautious about using anyone else's suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. Reviews or other people's experiences in general won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ).

Oh, I remember a question I had: I have read that talalay blends are the softest out of all natural and synthetic and blends, but I haven't been able to locate info about which beds might have this blend. Anyone know of any?


You may have run across some of the more detailed technical information I’ve previously presented on the site, which in your situation wouldn’t have too much applicability. While it is true that in general 100% NR Talalay can have a bit more “buoyant” feel than SBR, and SBR can feel a little softer and allow you to “sink in” a bit more. In the same thicknesses in the same ILD range, it would be very difficult for most people to notice a difference. The more important thing for you to consider would be for you to be sure that you’re looking at softer (lower ILD) foams in the upper layers of the products you’re considering.

As you stated you can’t leave your house right now, so the better options I’ve aware of that use latex in their mattresses would be the members listed in post #21 here who are all very experienced and knowledgeable and specialize in providing the type of help and guidance on the phone that can help you make good choices. There are a wide range of latex options included in the choices there and I believe that all of them compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency.

Good luck in your process of selecting a new mattress, and keep us updated with your progress. And even though I’ve mentioned it previously, please consider phoning any company you’re considering doing business with before making a purchase, as opposed to emailing or using the chat feature. You’ll get much better information in that manner.

Phoenix
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Brooklyn Bedding BME - no joy 19 Dec 2016 15:20 #5

Thanks for your detailed response and the time it took to help me. Very informational and helpful. I'll give Helix a call. I was kind of trying to shy away from coils, because it seems like I can feel the support layer in the traditional (?) style of beds, but, after reading more on this site, I don't think there is any comparison to old beds that that's happened to me with and these coils (or really any coils; the deficiency was probably in the comfort layers) should probably be just fine. But I should probably find out more about their 'dynamic foam.' (I'll use your search here to see if I can find it, that's been super helpful to me so far!)

I've only had the BME for a couple of weeks. Their time that they have you wait for a break-in time is only 2 weeks. I had my husband try it last night, and he said he thought what was going on was that the top 2" was fine, but it's kind of a hard "hit" hitting that second comfort layer. So I think what is causing me the most problems is that dunlop underneath the talalay. That's one of the ways that pain can complicate matters: I have to find out if this is more pain, my regular pain, more pain because of weather, or is this just a harder surface than I can handle? He helps a lot in that way.

I agree that I don't need to be dealing with 2 different products at once, adding complication to the matter. Thanks for reinforcing that in my head. :) I do think I will have a topper on hand, though, just in case it's as rough as this has been. I don't have one at this time, because I had 2 before I moved, but only found one of them, then gave it to a friend who was trying to sleep on a cheap walmart futon, right after I'd gotten the last new bed I got (DOH!). But it would be brilliant if I could get everything I need in one bed.

I read more on your site last nite, and I realize that I had confused myself about the blended talalay, about the softness. What I had read was just what you said, but you also say somewhere on here that the blended is more durable than all synthetic, so that's why I think it stuck in my head that that's what I want.

Of course, that's not what the Helix has, which is where I think I'm going to end up next. :)

I totally understand about reviews and the unreliability of them, but I still find myself wishing that there were video reviews of them, done by people with chronic pain issues. Just another point of view. I know that so many of us buy super expensive stuff that we could get better deals on, because we're so desperate for sleep. Seems like everyone I know has figured out how to get a tempurpedic, but only maybe half of us are happy with it. :( I guess what I was looking for that I wasn't really able to find are really reminders that I already know, myself, like try a bed on a 'bad day' not a 'good day' and things like that.

I'll call Helix and see what they say. Any idea how their dynamic foam compares to talalay foam? I'll definitely ask them this myself.


Anyway, thanks again for your help, and I'll let you know how it goes.

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Brooklyn Bedding BME - no joy 19 Dec 2016 17:08 #6

Hi downlover,

Thanks for your detailed response and the time it took to help me.

You’re very welcome!

But I should probably find out more about their 'dynamic foam.' Any idea how their dynamic foam compares to talalay foam

This is just a trade name for the polyfoam that they use in their upper layer, which is a totally different type of foam from latex. When you phone them they will be able to describe it more fully to you and perhaps provide some comparisons.

I've only had the BME for a couple of weeks. Their time that they have you wait for a break-in time is only 2 weeks.

Brooklyn Bedding wants you to try the mattress for at least two weeks (a small amount of time for you to begin to adjust to the product), but the mattress will still go through a break-in for a longer period of time than that. I term this as a “period of retrogression” (much like when you start a new exercise program and you’re sore for a while) where you adjust to the new mattress and the mattress “adjusts” to you.

I had my husband try it last night, and he said he thought what was going on was that the top 2" was fine, but it's kind of a hard "hit" hitting that second comfort layer. So I think what is causing me the most problems is that dunlop underneath the talalay.


While it’s difficult to discern, the transition from the Talalay to the Dunlop would usually be less noticeable than the transition to the polyfoam core, but it is of course different for each person. Regardless of the reason, it sounds as if you’re desiring what I describe as a bit more of a “progressive” design where the transition from the upper comfort layers to the deeper support layers is more gradual.

I totally understand about reviews and the unreliability of them, but I still find myself wishing that there were video reviews of them, done by people with chronic pain issues

Even if someone performed such a review in an educated and objective manner (incredibly rare in this industry), it wouldn’t have much meaning for anyone except that individual, especially when you’re dealing with “chronic pain issues”, which are completely individual and can arise from an incredible number of complex circumstances and interactions. Instead, you’d want to focus on what you personally know and what is or isn’t working for you when you contact different mattress companies. And in your case, you currently (at least after two weeks) don’t like the feel of the transition from a softer Talalay latex layer to a Dunlop latex layer to a polyfoam core, so it could be the case that you might respond better to a more gradual progressive transition on top. This could be latex with memory foam underneath, two layers of Talalay latex, an ultra plush high density poly foam with memory foam underneath…there really are an incredible number of possibilities. Keeping track of what you’ve tried and providing that information to online retailers will best serve you, and then making sure that any components in any mattress you consider meet the mattress durability guidelines here .

Anyway, thanks again for your help, and I'll let you know how it goes.

Sounds good!

Phoenix
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Brooklyn Bedding BME - no joy 21 Dec 2016 13:11 #7

Quick update. I noticed that someone else who had the same bed was able to get a topper to see if that helped, so I requested one from them, and they are shipping it to me in a few days.

It was really nice to receive awesome customer service from BB. They also are resetting my sleep trial time, which is a double bonus, and they said I can keep the topper even if I decide to return the bed.

It seems like it's slightly better. I feel like I got hit by a bike the past couple of days, instead of a truck. :) In more plain terms, it seems like my shoulders are not having as hard a time with the second comfort layer as they were before, and my neck is not all flared and angry. That is a huge boon for me, and a sign that this bed might work out after all.

But I injured my hip somehow last night/this morning, so I'll be pretty unreliable to gauge anything for a while (it's a re-occurring injury, no worries, just pain and time).

I'm playing phone tag with Helix and may still be interested in that, eventually, if this one doesn't work out, but I'm also continuing to read about other options. I'm super super glad to be dealing with an internet bed with a long sleep trial, that's for sure! I was thinking about this whole thing last night, and decided that the pain of breaking in a bed can compare to the pain of physical therapy, because the hope is that there will be less pain overall after some time. We'll see! :)

Thanks again. TTYS.

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Brooklyn Bedding BME - no joy 21 Dec 2016 14:38 #8

Hi downlover,

Thank you for the update!

I noticed that someone else who had the same bed was able to get a topper to see if that helped, so I requested one from them, and they are shipping it to me in a few days. It was really nice to receive awesome customer service from BB. They also are resetting my sleep trial time, which is a double bonus, and they said I can keep the topper even if I decide to return the bed.

I’m glad to hear that Brooklyn Bedding was accommodating to your request and are sending out the topper and resetting your trial period. It’s nice when a company has your best interests at heart.

It seems like it's slightly better. I feel like I got hit by a bike the past couple of days, instead of a truck.

Maybe you can work your way down to a tricycle, then a small remote controlled car, and then nothing! :lol:

In more plain terms, it seems like my shoulders are not having as hard a time with the second comfort layer as they were before, and my neck is not all flared and angry. That is a huge boon for me, and a sign that this bed might work out after all.

I’m hoping that the product will continue to adjust more for you as time goes on, as you’re still in the first weeks of trying out the mattress. The addition of the toper might also be a nice bonus for you.

But I injured my hip somehow last night/this morning, so I'll be pretty unreliable to gauge anything for a while (it's a re-occurring injury, no worries, just pain and time).

I’m sorry to hear that. :( I hope it gets better quickly.

I was thinking about this whole thing last night, and decided that the pain of breaking in a bed can compare to the pain of physical therapy, because the hope is that there will be less pain overall after some time. We'll see!

As with most physical therapy, the more painful work is done earlier, but the sooner it is done and the more you can tolerate, the faster you’ll eventually recover. I’m hoping this is the case for you and the worst is behind you.

Keep us updated!

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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Brooklyn Bedding BME - no joy 27 Dec 2016 05:38 #9

We did the friend thing that he mentioned when I talked to him that i forgot about. It's an extra $50 back through paypal once the shipping date expires, and then you'll get $50 which makes sense for not cheating the system.

I got her the soft twin mattress which I'm going to setup today when the flat comes. I laid on it a few times the past week and man, I'm kind of wishing I got the soft over the medium but that's not a proper test. Since she's swapping beds I got her 2 inch Serta memory foam for my full sized. I'll give that a full week and then I'll know if I should have gotten the soft, but it's a win either way if I like it as it will prolong the life of the bed. It'll be my first experience with a topper too which is going for $120 at Amazon but I got it at overstock on labor day I think for $60..

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Brooklyn Bedding BME - no joy 06 Jan 2017 05:18 #10

I have been reading your comments on the Mattress Underground as well as other sites and Sleep EZ appears to be well thought of as a quality and professional mattress company ...
So ..... I am reaching out, like many others for your assistance.

My wife and I are researching a new mattress and all I can say is ... Whew!
With all the sales pitches, pricing, quality and product variables it's quite a mess to sort thru in making a decision. So, we are reaching out to you, as a professional with a reputable company for assistance.

I am 73, 5'10" @ 165 lbs and my wife is 65, 5'3" @ 118 lbs...
Both in excellent shape, for our age and the only issue is with my back surgery in 2010 .... I have problems with pressure points and my legs go numb when I lie on my sides. Otherwise we are both side and back sleepers. We both tend to get warm and pillow tops don't work.

We have been sleeping on both a Sealy Correct Comfort Impeccable on a platform and a Sealy Posturepedic Equisite Royal Ultra Plush on box springs.
Both have been great beds for many years but as a result of our moving from Ca to Fl, our beds have both been screwed up and now there are dips due to the way they bent the mattresses to squeeze them into boxes.

From my research it's a toss between a Hybrid (which appears to be better for side sleepers) or just go with a Latex. We are not hard on products and take care of them .... so they last a long time.

My readings have indicated that anything from an Ikea, which some rave about, to way higher priced options it's all a matter of individual fine tuning. We have not been able to locate a shop as of yet to bounce on a bed or two. So ...

Your input and advice would be greatly appreciated ... Maybe there is a local shop here in the area that you could recommend where we could do our bounce time.

Thank you in advance,

Rick & Francine Mackinzie
Temple Terrace, Fl

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