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DIY Latex Combination 27 Feb 2017 18:32 #1

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for a little feedback on the following combination:

2" 14-19 ILD
2" 20-24 ILD
3" 25-29 ILD
3" 30-34 ILD

All the layers are 100% Natural Talalay Latex. I'm trying to achieve a very plush feel as both my girlfriend and I are light side sleepers. I'm 145 lbs and she is 115 lbs. I'm just a little concerned that it may not be supportive enough or possibly soft enough. Did I go overboard with the comfort layers? Or can they be even softer and still be supportive? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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DIY Latex Combination 27 Feb 2017 20:21 #2

Hi eges,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

While I can certainly help with "how" to choose, it's not possible for myself or anyone else on the forum to make specific suggestions or recommendations for combinations of materials or components that may or may not be appropriate for you, because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress, and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial ) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

As you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components that are purchased from one or several different sources, then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project ... the best approach to a DIY mattress is a "spirit of adventure" where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

If you want to learn a little more, there is more about primary or "deep" support and secondary or "surface" support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the "roles" of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between "support" and "pressure relief" and "feel" that may help you.

You’re certainly looking at high quality and durable materials, and you’re considering a “traditional” progressive style of configuration. As to whether they would be appropriate for you, that can only be determined through your own careful personal testing. While your configuration would certainly lean toward a more “plush” configuration, I personally wouldn’t consider it an “overboard” plush configuration, but again your opinion would be the most important.

I’ll be interested in learning about any choices you make and the results of your personal testing, and an questions you might come up with after that.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

DIY Latex Combination 01 Mar 2017 14:51 #3

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for your help your post was very informative. I've been reading some more and I'm probably going to go try out some beds this weekend. After my reading I'm left with a few questions. Does 100% natural talalay have any advantages over blended? For example the classic vs 100% natural from Talalay Global. From what I've been reading blended is more durable in softer layers, more precise in the ILD rating, has Oeko-Tex 100 certification and is cheaper. Also I had a question of why most companies use 6" support cores. For example in the World's Best Bed by PLB you've stated the specs as:

World's Best Bed™ AF all latex
12" Natural Talalay
4" ActiveFusion Fast Natural Talalay 15 ILD
2" Natural Talalay Pressure Relief 24 ILD
6" Natural Talalay Latex Support Core 36 ILD

Why do they need a 6" core vs a 3" firm base layer? I'm assuming mostly light people would order a bed like this. Moreover, can a 6" 36 ILD core be approximated by 2 3" 36 ILD layers? Or would you need 2 softer layers?

Thanks again for all your help!

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Last edit: by eges.

DIY Latex Combination 01 Mar 2017 16:37 #4

Hi eges,

Thanks for your help your post was very informative.

You’re welcome.

Does 100% natural talalay have any advantages over blended? For example the classic vs 100% natural from Talalay Global. From what I've been reading blended is more durable in softer layers, more precise in the ILD rating, has Oeko-Tex 100 certification and is cheaper.

I think you may have been referring to some of the information in post #2 here describing the differences between blended and natural Talalay latex. From Talalay Global, they have put out information in the past stating that their blended Talalay is more durable than their natural, but the difference is small and would be more noticeable in the softer (lower ILD) layers. Again, it would be a small difference. The blended is less expensive to produce than the natural. ILD ratings are in “ranges” and not exact numbers, and from Talalay Global they test their cores in nine different points in order to meet their ILD ratings (you may be referring to the fact that natural rubber is stickier and a little more difficult to work with). Both the blended and natural Talalay from Talalay Global is Oeko-Tex 100 Level I certified.

As an aside, since you mentioned cost, information was just released stating that raw material pricing has gone up considerably in the past six months, as SBR, and the natural latex from Sri Lanka (lots of flooding) have gone up quite a bit. Expect latex prices to start rising quite soon.

Also I had a question of why most companies use 6" support cores.

Talalay is poured in 6” cores, so that is easy to use and less costly than using two 3” pieces, especially when you are dealing with a laminated mattress, as there would be no need to pay for the extra fabrication of slitting the core into two pieces just to glue it back together again.

Why do they need a 6" core vs a 3" firm base layer?

This is simply a function of the design and comfort they are trying to achieve with this particular item, and for this feel their engineering and experience show these layers in these ILDs and thickness to work well together.

I'm assuming mostly light people would order a bed like this.

Not necessarily. This mattress would be popular with all different somatotypes and BMIs, but the one thing they would have in common would be that they would all desire a softer overall surface comfort.

Moreover, can a 6" 36 ILD core be approximated by 2 3" 36 ILD layers? Or would you need 2 softer layers?

A “ 36 ILD core would feel virtually the same as two 3” 36 ILD pieces placed together (assuming the same Talalay). There would be little if any practical difference between two 3" support layers and a single 6" support layer if they were all the same type and blend of latex and the same ILD and were inside a tight fitting cover with 3" inches of latex of the same ILD on top of them. Two 3" layers would respond a little more independently and because the elasticity of the top 3" wouldn't be connected and "pulling back" on the bottom 3" when it compresses and "in theory" it may act a little bit softer but in practical and real life terms most people wouldn't notice any difference in terms of performance or firmness. If a single 6" core with a 3" comfort layer was a good match for you in terms of PPP then there would be little benefit in having multiple 3" layers that were the equivalent ILD.

Also in "theory only" ... two 3" layers that were exactly the same ILD as a single 6" layer could be less durable over the course of a long lifetime because they will act more independently and abrade each other slightly but I don't think that any difference would be significant or even measurable in "real life" terms and the other factors that affect durability (see post #4 here ) such as the firmness of the layers would play a much bigger role. It certainly wouldn't be a concern of mine.

Multiple layers would have more options for fine tuning though both before and after a purchase because for example a support core with a medium over firm layer would be a little firmer than a medium layer and a little softer than a firm layer (closer to the medium) and you would also have the option to rearrange the layers to firm over medium which would still be in between a medium and firm 6" layer but closer to the firm. You could also use the softer top layer in the middle to create a firmer feel compared to having the soft on top. The main advantage of having more layers in other words is that for those who need it can provide more options to customize the layer combinations either before a purchase or by rearranging or exchanging layers after a purchase. While this is attractive to some people ... it can also add some complexity that may not be necessary or may not justify any extra costs involved in having more layers for others.

Outside of a mattress with more layers having more options to customize the mattress, if a mattress is a good match for you, then one isn't inherently any better than the other.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

DIY Latex Combination 02 Mar 2017 10:04 #5

Thank you again Phoenix for all the information. Could you elaborate a little more, in theory, on how having the 6" core vs 3" would change the feel of the mattress. Could you please point out any concerns with such a design. For example, if you attempted to replicate the PLB Beautiful:

Beautiful- AF all latex
12" Natural Talalay
3" ActiveFusion Fast Natural Talalay 15 ILD (NOTE: this was previously listed as 21 ILD which means that I was either given incorrect information or it has changed)
3" Natural Talalay Pressure Relief 24 ILD
6" Natural Talalay Latex Support Core 36 ILD

with

3" 14-19 ILD 100% Natural Talalay
3" 20-24 ILD 100% Natural Talalay
3" 30-34 ILD 100% Natural Talalay.

Would the 9 inch combination require an additional 3 inches of support core? What would the possible issues be? Again, thank you for all your help!

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DIY Latex Combination 02 Mar 2017 11:12 #6

Hi eges,

Could you elaborate a little more, in theory, on how having the 6" core vs 3" would change the feel of the mattress. Could you please point out any concerns with such a design

Your question is much too general and dependent upon your own person interpretation of what “feel” is to you and how it would relate to another item to which you had also tested. As I mentioned in my previous reply, there are entirely too many personal variables, unknowns, personal preferences and differing sensitivities for me to be able to predict how one item might feel differently to you versus another.

If you’re comparing specifications to the Beautiful and halving the bottom layer, you’re eliminating 50% of the base foam and 25% overall of the foam within the mattress, so most people would certainly notice the difference, but how much they would notice would be very individualized. Overall the feel would tend to be a bit more plush, and someone with a higher mass may notice this difference in support/alignment more than someone who was of a lighter mass. All layers within a mattress work together, not sequentially, so it would be an overall perception of comfort. There are many component mattress systems that use three 3” layers of latex and people are very happy with these systems, but how it might feel to you would of course only be known thorough your own person testing.

Making more "educated guesses" about layering combinations or changes that may work for someone is really a process of " differential diagnosis " that relies on using probabilities and some trial and error in combination with one’s feedback and assessing how their actual symptoms change and either get "better or worse" with each layer combination that has been sampled. There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one.

In the DIY link I provide earlier, post #15 here and post #5 here and post #7 here and post #25 here would also be worth reading about making layer changes and how they can work together to change feels.

3" ActiveFusion Fast Natural Talalay 15 ILD (NOTE: this was previously listed as 21 ILD which means that I was either given incorrect information or it has changed)

You may have found an older post where 21 was the listed ILD, but it has been confirmed for a few years now that this layer is indeed 15 ILD.

3" 14-19 ILD 100% Natural Talalay
3" 20-24 ILD 100% Natural Talalay
3" 30-34 ILD 100% Natural Talalay.
Would the 9 inch combination require an additional 3 inches of support core?

Beside the information I linked to earlier in this reply, you’re also changing the type of Talalay (natural versus blended) which will slightly change the feel and characteristics of the mattress as compared to the Beautiful, but these changes would be smaller and some people don’t notice them as much as others. Having the extra 3” support core isn’t “necessary”, unless you were trying to get as close as possible to the specs of the Beautiful, in which case it would put you closer to that item. But “necessary” would come down to your own personal testing and results, as I described earlier. When designing your own mattress, I recommend to use the specifications of something you have tried and liked in person as a good starting point, as you already have experience with that and engineers have usually found a combination that works well as a combination, The further you get away from a know configuration, the more you increase uncertainty, which you may or may not enjoy as part of the DIY process. :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

DIY Latex Combination 22 Mar 2017 16:24 #7

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks again for your help. I ordered the latex. I ended up going with 100% natural talalay in the following combination:

2" 14-19 ILD
2" 14-19 ILD
3" 25-29 ILD
3" 30-34 ILD

I have a question about the base. Right now I'm just using an Ikea bed frame (Malm) with the luroy slats. Is that appropriate for a mattress like this? Or would I need a solid flat base? I haven't put it on the bed frame yet because I haven't received the zippered cover yet.

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DIY Latex Combination 23 Mar 2017 08:31 #8

Hi eges,

Thanks again for your help. I ordered the latex. I ended up going with 100% natural talalay

Congratulations on your latex layer purchases! :) You certainly chose to go with durable materials.

Right now I'm just using an Ikea bed frame (Malm) with the luroy slats. Is that appropriate for a mattress like this? Or would I need a solid flat base?

The bowed slat network of the Luroy will flex a bit and you may notice this in the feel of the mattress (perhaps a little softer feel). I would keep an eye on the slats to make sure that over time they don’t end up flexing too much or delaminate and start to sag. I remember someone from the forum going into Ikea and measuring the distance between the slats and it was acceptable for use with latex mattresses, and many site members have used this slatted network with polyfoam, latex and innerspring mattresses.

Phoenix
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Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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