TOPIC:

Hi Phoenix...what an incredible site! I have learned so much. And it's sort of addictive

My husband and I are sleeping on a 2" 20pct Dunlop topper on an innerspring mattress. We are moving it to the guest room and getting a new mattress.

Husband wakes up with lower back soreness. We both find the Dunlop topper comfortable but would like it a bit softer.

I'm 6' 150, he's 5'10" 140. Both side sleepers.

Based on your recommendations I forced myself to go to a store yesterday. Tried the Pure Talalay Bliss Pamper, Nature, and Beautiful. Only the Beautiful was soft enough by itself. I added soft toppers to the other two and they felt fine.

I also tried Savvy Rest in a medium, soft, soft talalay configuration. It felt great.

We are in early retirement and cost is a factor. Both intrigued by DIY. Also looking at sleepez 8" special as well as their other models.

If we do the 8" special, I'm thinking of medium, soft, soft talalay (to mimic the savvy rest).

I also wonder about their 6" special if they still have it, and adding a 3" talalay topper.

Any thoughts for us? Thank you again!

Hi Parisgirl,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum!

Hi Phoenix...what an incredible site! I have learned so much. And it's sort of addictive

I’m glad you found us and the information presented here has been helpful to you.

Husband wakes up with lower back soreness. We both find the Dunlop topper comfortable but would like it a bit softer.

There are multiple reason for low back soreness, but more often with an older mattress it is the gradual loss of support factor of the foams in the mattress, and also some loss of deep down mattress support. When sleeping on your side, this can manifest itself as sinking in overall a bit too much, almost as if you are in a hammock. I’m not sure if that was the case in your situation.

Based on your recommendations I forced myself to go to a store yesterday. Tried the Pure Talalay Bliss Pamper, Nature, and Beautiful. Only the Beautiful was soft enough by itself. I added soft toppers to the other two and they felt fine.

The ultra plush Talalay topper from PTB is 15 ILD, which is the same as the upper 3” layer in the Beautiful mattress. While adding this topper to the Nature will achieve a similar surface comfort, the overall feel of course will be different. Adding his topper to the Pamper will definitely have a deeper firmer feel, as the Pamper uses a core that is 10% higher in ILD than the Nature or Beautiful.

I also tried Savvy Rest in a medium, soft, soft talalay configuration. It felt great.

That is a very plush configuration. The softest Savvy Rest generally recommends for someone under 160 pounds is Firm Dunlop, Soft Talalay, Soft Talalay.

We are in early retirement and cost is a factor. Both intrigued by DIY.

If you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components that are purchased from one or several different sources, then I would start by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. The best approach to a DIY mattress is a "spirit of adventure" where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

Also looking at sleepez 8" special as well as their other models. If we do the 8" special, I'm thinking of medium, soft, soft talalay (to mimic the savvy rest).

The best advice I could offer would be a phone call to SleepEZ (they are a site member here, which means I think highly of them and their advice) with your concerns and preferences and results from local testing (the PTB and the Savvy Rest), and they be best able to guide and advise you in configurations they offer and the results that they have had with decades of experience with people in similar situations, sleeping styles and somatotypes. They do have a 90 day comfort exchange program, with a $30 fee for the first layer exchange within that timeframe. Personally, the combination you mentioned would be on the very plush side and there could be a concern of having adequate deep alignment support.

I also wonder about their 6" special if they still have it, and adding a 3" talalay topper.

This would have less of an ability to customize (could only be accomplished by changing the topper), and does have an extra layer of polyfoam in the quilt on each side. The mattress can be flipped.

I’ll be interested in learning about any conversations you have with SleepEZ or other decisions you might make or questions you may have.

Phoenix

Excellent! Thank you. I just got off the phone with SleepEZ. Ramon did confirm that what I was aiming for would be too soft: might feel good at first but medium/soft/soft talalay wouldn't be supportive enough for the long run. So I think you and he are on the same page.

For the 8' special, he recommended firm/medium/soft talalay.

But he mentioned another possibility, one that I'm quite intrigued with: firm/medium/soft—all 3 layers talalay.

I'm even thinking about the 100% talalay version as opposed to the blended. Just a matter of money

Would love your thoughts. And thanks again!

PS. The all 3 layers talalay would be on the 10" mattress.

Hi Parisgirl,

Excellent! Thank you. I just got off the phone with SleepEZ. Ramon did confirm that what I was aiming for would be too soft: might feel good at first but medium/soft/soft talalay wouldn't be supportive enough for the long run. So I think you and he are on the same page.

That makes sense.

For the 8' special, he recommended firm/medium/soft talalay.
But he mentioned another possibility, one that I'm quite intrigued with: firm/medium/soft—all 3 layers talalay. I'm even thinking about the 100% talalay version as opposed to the blended. Just a matter of money.

I think you’re referring to their Select Sleep model, which can be had with blended Talalay or 100% NR Talalay. This would place you closer to the Savvy Rest configuration you tried (using three 3” layers), although the combination they recommended is of course a bit firmer than what you tried in-store. A 3x3 component system is a very popular combination choice. The firm/medium/soft Talalay combination allows you to have a good progressive construction to test out, and if you desired a softer feel you would have the option to swap out a layer and go with a firm/soft/soft (the softest that I mentioned Savvy Ret recommends), or a medium/medium/soft, just to name a few options. Your own personal testing will be the most important guidance throughout this whole process.

Phoenix

Realized I posted this message on the wrong place. oops

Hi Phoenix...yes I definitely meant the 10" select sleep, and LOVE the thought of starting F/M/S but still having the option to switch out to F/S/S or M/M/S.

That said, I'm still considering their 8" special.

Heat and humidity is quite a factor here in austin. Which cover would sleep cooler...the one on the 8" special, or the cotton cover with 1' of wool?

Thanks again.

Hi Parisgirl,

Hi Phoenix...yes I definitely meant the 10" select sleep, and LOVE the thought of starting F/M/S but still having the option to switch out to F/S/S or M/M/S.

That’s one of the benefits of a three layer component system with more options for customization...and can also be one of the downfalls for others.

Heat and humidity is quite a factor here in austin. Which cover would sleep cooler...the one on the 8" special, or the cotton cover with 1' of wool?

Controlling humidity is extremely important for maintaining a comfortable sleep environment. Both cotton and wool are good at absorbing moisture, with wool being better at more efficiently releasing it back to the environment. The cover on the 8” special is a cotton stretch-knit and it is thinned and would be a bit more breathable than the cotton/wool cover, but both would be good choices, and are only one part of controlling the microclimate of your mattress.

In very general terms ... the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin and softer mattresses or foam toppers will tend to be more "insulating" and for some people can sleep warmer than firmer versions of the same material. The type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on sleeping temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials. There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

Phoenix

Very close to pulling the trigger, but just realized that the 10" select sleep appears to be way firmer than the PTB Beautiful:
Beautiful:
3" ILD 15
3" ILD 24
6" ILD 36

10" select sleep:
3" ILD 19-20 Soft
3" ILD 30-32 Medium
3" ILD 38-40 Firm

Maybe I should start with M/M/S or F/S/S?

Also, I haven't ruled out the 8" special

Thank you so much Phoenix!

Hi Parisgirl,

Very close to pulling the trigger, but just realized that the 10" select sleep appears to be way firmer than the PTB Beautiful:
Beautiful:
3" ILD 15
3" ILD 24
6" ILD 36
10" select sleep:
3" ILD 19-20 Soft
3" ILD 30-32 Medium
3" ILD 38-40 Firm
Maybe I should start with M/M/S or F/S/S?

The specifications of the two mattresses are different, but only your own personal testing will be able to tell you if one feels softer than the other.

If your desire is to have the exact same feel as the Beautiful, your only option would be to duplicate every layer exactly, including the style, blend, thickness and ILD of latex, and use the same type of cover. Otherwise, you’ll be creating alternate DIY combinations that may place you in a similar “range” of comfort, but won’t be exact copies.

Post #9 here (specifically the second half of the post), goes into greater detail about approximating different mattresses through design. When attempting to approximate something, your best way to look at it would be to attempt to create a “close approximation” to the feel that seems to work for you, and in that case I would rely upon the expertise of knowledgeable retailers or manufacturers who are experienced with how their products compare to other common items available. In your particular example, you’re comparing an item with 25% less material than one you saw in a showroom, so immediately you have to expect a difference in overall feel, and also you’d have to expect a difference in foams and ILDs to achieve good overall support using less material. If you took the specs of the Beautiful and directly copied the top two layers and them simply split the bottom layer in half, you’d have an item that very closely approximated the Beautiful, but it would not feel the same, as you’d be reducing the firmer foam core by 50%. In order to “approximate” a similar feel in a thinner mattress (9” of latex versus 12”), designers will often slightly increase the ILDs of the deeper layers in order to provide a bit more deep down support using the smaller amounts of foam available to them in the design.

In the end, it all comes down to your own personal testing, and then using that as a baseline for any potential changes in comfort layers.

Phoenix