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normal Celsion vs Classic vs Natural from Talalay Global

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19 Mar 2017 12:41 - 19 Mar 2017 12:46 #1 by Sensitive1

Talalay Global seems to make a number of different latex types, and I am wondering what the difference is as far as ingredients. I just purchased (and am having odor issues with) a mattress for which I believe, although not yet confirmed, the latex was made by. Talalay Global.. I was told the odor would dissipate within a week or so, but it has been 8 days and there is still a fairly strong odor. I have chemical sensitivities, and the odor seems to be a real problem for me, so I am thinking there might be some chemicals in there..

Also, the mattress has a flax layer and a coconut fiber layer and am wondering how those ingredients might affect the life of the mattress. It is supposed to be a latex/innerspring combo..

Last Edit: 19 Mar 2017 12:46 by Sensitive1.

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19 Mar 2017 13:10 #2 by Phoenix

Hi Sensitive1,

Talalay Global seems to make a number of different latex types, and I am wondering what the difference is as far as ingredients.

All latex foam manufacturers use a compounding formula which is usually about 90% to 95% rubber or in some cases slightly higher (but not 99%) and the other ingredients include foaming agents, gelling agents, curing agents, mold release agents, antioxidants, and possibly fillers in some cases. Without these it wouldn't be possible to turn the rubber into a foam that was suitable for a mattress. 100% natural generally refers to latex cores where the rubber used in the foamed core is 100% natural rubber, not that the only ingredient in the foam is rubber. Blended Talalay also has the same compounding ingredients but the difference is that the rubber that is used is about 70% synthetic (Styrene Butadiene or SBR for short) and 30% natural rubber (NR). The manufacturers don't release the specifics of their compounding formula which is a closely guarded secret.

The Classic from Talalay Global is their blended Talalay. The Celsion is their trade name for their blended Talalay with a small amount of phase change material mixed in, and their Natural is their 100% NR latex. All of their latex is Oeko-Tex 100 Level I certified (the most stringent standard for infants and children) for harmful substances and VOCs (which I know is not an odor test).

I was told the odor would dissipate within a week or so, but it has been 8 days and there is still a fairly strong odor. I have chemical sensitivities, and the odor seems to be a real problem for me, so I am thinking there might be some chemicals in there..

As I mentioned above there are of course chemicals in any foam, but the presence of such isn’t necessarily indicated by an odor, and having an odor isn’t necessarily indicative of a dangerous chemical. I know it can be very difficult when you do have multiple chemical sensitives.

Latex has what is most often described as a “semi-sweet” or “vanillia-like” odor, and it does tend to dissipate within a week or two. The latex from Talalay Global goes through a five-step rinsing process, so most of the residual soaps and proteins are washed away from the material before it is assembled within a mattress. You also stated that your mattress has other components (flax and coconut fiber), and these could also be the source of your sensitivity. The covering used in the mattress can also have some odor as well. As I can’t smell what you smell (and you are chemically sensitive), and as I don’t have the complete specifications of your mattress, I can only offer that general information. There’s some more good information about latex and odor and how to help dissipate those odors in post #2 here .

Also, the mattress has a flax layer and a coconut fiber layer and am wondering how those ingredients might affect the life of the mattress. It is supposed to be a latex/innerspring combo..

That would depend upon the density/compression/thickness of that material and where it is located within the mattress, but the information you provided is too general for me to make any meaningful comments for you. Compressed natural materials within a mattress can be quite durable and many people prefer them.

Phoenix


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19 Mar 2017 16:02 #3 by Sensitive1

Thanks so much for your quick response - I have to try to figure out whether I am going to keep the mattress or not and told the store owner I would come back tomorrow. I had picked latex as the mattress foam of choice, thinking it would have the least problems for me, but I am beginning to wonder. now whether it was a mistake. I emailed the store today, asking if Talalay Global is the source of the latex - I had been told the manufacturer is in Connecticut -, and which of the types of latex I have. Haven't heard back yet. The specs I received initially just said '2 in high density natural latex' and '1 in medium density natural latex', and they came from the mattress manufacturer - .Eastman House - and not from Talalay Global, so I am hoping I have Talalay Global's 'natural' and not just some informal wording from the manufacturer.. I have read that the term may be used sometimes a little too loosely, and 'natural' could also be a blend. .. And according to the Talalay Global website, the Celsion is generally ' Utilized on top of innerspring, visco, foam and latex support cores' and since mine is an innerspring, I'm afraid the top layer may be that instead of the natural - and since it has more additives, I'm afraid it may be more 'odorific' than than the natural version??

Talalay Global never uses the Dunlop process, correct? Unfortunately, to me the mattress has a sort of rubbery smell, so pretty sure its not the rest of the bed that's the problem.

As for getting rid of chemical odor - I have a friend who swears by spraying vinegar on things, if that is of use to anyone, but I doubt it would penetrate down through the 'silk and wool' covering on my mattress - it is button tufted and there is no way to remove any cover. The same goes for the baking soda, I'm afraid, . but if anyone has had success with this I would like to hear.

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19 Mar 2017 16:29 #4 by Sensitive1

I've been looking up Styrene-butadiene Evidently it is a combo of styrene and butadiene. Here is what one website had to say about styrene: : Styrene is primarily a synthetic chemical that is used extensively in the manufacture of plastics, rubber, and resins. It is also known as vinylbenzene, ethenylbenzene, cinnamene, or phenylethylene. About 90,000 workers, including those who make boats, tubs, and showers, are potentially exposed to styrene. Health effects from exposure to styrene may involve the central nervous system and include complaints of headache, fatigue, dizziness, confusion, drowsiness, malaise, difficulty in concentrating, and a feeling of intoxication. Health effects of styrene include irritation of the skin, eyes, and the upper respiratory tract. Acute exposure may also result in gastrointestinal effects. Chronic exposure affects the central nervous system showing symptoms such as depression, headache, fatigue, weakness, and may cause minor effects on kidney function.

And the government says Celsion is safe for infants?. Yes I saw that certification too, but this is not safe stuff according to this!!

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19 Mar 2017 19:19 #5 by Phoenix

Hi Sensitive1,

I emailed the store today, asking if Talalay Global is the source of the latex - I had been told the manufacturer is in Connecticut -, and which of the types of latex I have.

This would be Talalay Global in Shelton, Connecticut.

I have read that the term may be used sometimes a little too loosely, and 'natural' could also be a blend.

The term "natural" is often used even for blended latex by some mattress manufacturers, as even the blended latex has some natural rubber in it, so it can be confusing at times.

And according to the Talalay Global website, the Celsion is generally ' Utilized on top of innerspring, visco, foam and latex support cores' and since mine is an innerspring, I'm afraid the top layer may be that instead of the natural - and since it has more additives, I'm afraid it may be more 'odorific' than than the natural version??

The addition of a small amount of paraffin wax phase change material to the Celsion latex would not change the smell of the item (you stated it smells like rubber to you, which is what it is), and adding the phase change material (if that is indeed what you have), which is not rubber, would not alter the normal odor of the latex. Using a phase change material is normally only used in the uppermost layer of any mattress, as this is the area closest to your skin where the potential for any difference in surface sensation might be noticed.

Talalay Global never uses the Dunlop process, correct?

Yes, they only produce Talalay latex. Dunlop tends to have a more "rubbery" smell than Talalay.

As for getting rid of chemical odor - I have a friend who swears by spraying vinegar on things, if that is of use to anyone, but I doubt it would penetrate down through the 'silk and wool' covering on my mattress - it is button tufted and there is no way to remove any cover. The same goes for the baking soda, I'm afraid, . but if anyone has had success with this I would like to hear.

I don’t recommend spraying material into a mattress and instead only recommend airing out the product. As you may be aware, if you spread powder on top of the mattress or spray vinegar or any other fluids onto your mattress, it will generally immediately void any comfort exchange policy a business has in place. Some liquids can also cause premature degradation of your comfort materials.

I've been looking up Styrene-butadiene Evidently it is a combo of styrene and butadiene.

Yes, that would be correct. Synthetic latex is made primarily from a combination of Styrene and Butadiene which have a very similar chemical structure to natural rubber (which is mainly Isoprene rubber) and become very stable when they are polymerized together. There are many sources for both Styrene and Butadiene but the most common source is from petrochemicals. SBR latex (synthetic) is a less dense material with a slightly different chemical structure than natural rubber. It is made from two chemicals which are Styrene and Butadiene while natural rubber is primarily Isoprene. These two polymers (SBR and Isoprene) are similar but not the same. In addition to being primarily Isoprene ... natural rubber also contains other compounds in varying amounts including proteins, resins, fatty acids, and sterols. These additional ingredients are missing from synthetic rubber (including synthetic Isoprene). Both are generally Oeko-Tex standard 100 certified in terms of harmful substances or VOC's and offgassing.

While I'm no expert in materials science or chemistry, while there may be precursor chemicals used in the manufacture of various types of foams, for example the manufacture of styrene and butadiene, when they’re combined to create synthetic rubber and then combined in the creation of foamed rubber (latex foam) they become inert and aren’t considered to be harmful, yet they can still be listed as "ingredients" in the foam. They could present a risk to the people who manufacture the foam or handle the unreacted chemical itself (which is where people commonly incorrectly relate the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) to be representative of the “safety” of a finished product), but the risk to consumers that purchase the final product would be minimal. The only reliable way to assess the "safety" of different materials in more general terms is based on lab tests and the certifications they have for harmful substances and VOCs (regardless of whether they are organic or natural or synthetic) so that you have some assurance than the VOCs are below the testing limits for the certification. If the materials in a mattress or the mattress itself has a reliable "safety" certification then for most people they would certainly be "safe enough", regardless of the MSDS, type of material or the name of the manufacturer on the label.

The issue of "chemicals" in a mattress is a complex one with a lot of fear mongering, contradictory, misleading, and exaggerated information all over the web on all sides of the argument. In the end there are really no definitive answers to the question of "how safe is safe enough for me?" that would apply to every person but post #2 here about organic, natural, green, chemical free, and "safe" materials and claims and the more detailed information in post #2 here and the posts it links to may be helpful in sorting out all the information that you will be exposed to in your research so you can make more informed choices about the materials you are most comfortable with. There’s also more about synthetics material in post #2 here .

I would also be aware that the issue is not so much about chemicals in your mattress (every mattress material whether it is natural or synthetic has some type of natural or synthetic chemicals) but whether any chemicals that are harmful to you are present in amounts that you may be sensitive to for one reason or another. Other sources of "chemicals" that some people could be sensitive to in a mattress include various fabrics or fibers or the chemicals used to make them antimicrobial, antifungal, or water resistant, any fire retardant chemicals or fillers infused into the foam or fibers, or glues used to bond the layers together (or used in the foundation).

There are certifications for harmful substances and VOC's (some of which have a smell and some which don't) such as CertiPur (mainly for polyfoam and memory foam) and Oeko-Tex (mainly for fabrics/fibers and latex) and Eco-Institut (also mainly for fabrics/fibers and latex) that for most people would be "safe enough" but for those who are more sensitive to some chemicals even these may not be enough to guarantee that they will have no reactions to a specific material that would be fine for the majority of others. In general though, the use of more natural materials or components, materials that have more stringent certifications (such as Oeko-Tex or Eco-Institut), or that are known to have a very low risk of reactions in most people would generally be the most effective approach.

In most cases, "best judgement" along with "preponderance of the evidence" and your own personal or health history would be the best approach, especially in your case with your specific sensitivities.

There is also more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here but all of the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will have a reliable safety certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, or Greenguard Gold (see post #2 here ) and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex to be a very "safe" material in terms of harmful substances and VOC's.

And the government says Celsion is safe for infants?.

Oeko-Tex is not a government certification, but a worldwide independent testing and certification system. There is more about the standards of the testing here . Yes, all the latex from Talalay Global is Oeko-Tex Standard 100, Product Class I certified.

Phoenix


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20 Mar 2017 10:43 #6 by Sensitive1

Thanks so much for your help!

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20 Mar 2017 11:00 #7 by Phoenix

Hi Sensitive1,

You're very welcome!

Phoenix


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