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Box spring for latex mattress 15 May 2017 11:35 #1

I grew up sleeping on a latex mattress with a box spring. According to this thread , box springs are not recommended as a foundation for a latex mattress; can anyone explain why this is?
Thanks!

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Last edit: by Phoenix. Reason: corrected link

Box spring for latex mattress 15 May 2017 14:33 #2

Hi strandsofpearl,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

I grew up sleeping on a latex mattress with a box spring. According to this thread , box springs are not recommended as a foundation for a latex mattress; can anyone explain why this is?


First, realize that this choice of what to use as the appropriate support structure under any mattress is always at the discretion of the manufacturer, and you'll always want to follow this guidance for warranty reasons.

There is more about the different types of foundations and why they are used/recommended at the beginning of the foundation thread here. Specifically, from post #3 linked to in that thread:

In most cases .. at least in North America ... the layers in a foam mattress are designed to be "stand alone" in terms of how they feel and perform and the foam is designed to do all the work and only needs a firm and evenly supportive surface underneath it. In Europe ... thinner mattresses are more common and the bases underneath them are often designed as an integral part of the overall performance of the sleeping system and it's much more common to see more flexible foundations (often with flexible slats) under a thinner mattress. Even in North America though ... you will find some manufacturers that design their mattresses to be used over a flexible boxspring which is an active and important part of the complete sleeping system (although again this is usually with thinner mattresses). There are also cultural differences between mattresses in different areas of the world which leads to some designs being more "familiar" (meaning they would sell more easily) than others.

"Back in the day" most latex mattresses were thinner and firmer and an actual coil box spring was used to make a difference in comfort, and in some cases was simply a "holdover" from what was being used with innerspring mattresses. These days, most latex mattresses are designed so that an active box spring unit is unnecessary.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Box spring for latex mattress 12 Oct 2017 19:57 #3

After a lot of research, we've decided to go with a king-size mattress from Latex Mattress Factory using their natural wood foundation. We were able to try out latex from the same manufacturer in a store; we both liked the same Soft - Medium - Firm Dunlop layering of all the combinations we tried. If we have problems getting it, we will try for the same thing from SleepEZ. We may get an additional topper but we're waiting to decide until we actually sleep on the bed awhile.

We haven't decided yet what metal frame we should use to support the bed. We were considering the Knickerbocker "The Monster", but this thread mentions that there's a problem with sagging due to the screws being misplaced. Phoenix, do you know if the company ever responded to the poster who said the bed sits on the screws and not on the bedframe?

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Box spring for latex mattress 13 Oct 2017 11:14 #4

Hi strandsofpearls,

After a lot of research, we've decided to go with a king-size mattress from Latex Mattress Factory using their natural wood foundation. We were able to try out latex from the same manufacturer in a store; we both liked the same Soft - Medium - Firm Dunlop layering of all the combinations we tried.


Congratulations on your new mattress order! :cheer: You chose something using good quality and durable materials, and as you’re aware Latex Mattress Factory is a site member here, which means that I think highly of them. You’ve chosen a “common” progressive construction and I hope it works out well for you, and I’m looking forward to your updates once you’ve had a chance to sleep upon and adjust to your new mattress.

We haven't decided yet what metal frame we should use to support the bed. We were considering the Knickerbocker "The Monster", but this thread mentions that there's a problem with sagging due to the screws being misplaced.


I don’t have a current Monster frame in front of me, so I can’t tell you the exact differences in dimensions from the floor of the side rails versus the center rail. There is a close up photo of the current Monster frame from the Knickerbocker site here , and you can see how the rails overlap. A “step-down” of some sort is common with many all-in-one frames and those with arms that are riveted and swing out from the head-to-toe rails.

If you’re looking for something all along one level, from Knickerbocker you could consider their embrace frame. You may also with to investigate “wedgelock” or “craftlock” frames like this one .

Phoenix
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Box spring for latex mattress 06 Feb 2018 13:55 #5

We have been sleeping on our new bed for about two weeks. A few notes:

-When we originally called Latex Mattress Factory to talk about ordering the bed, we talked to someone who told us it would be way more expensive to have the latex for our king-size bed cut into two pieces. This was frustrating because we wanted them in two pieces to keep our options open, but we ordered the single large pieces for cost reasons. We recently spoke to another person at the company who told us that was wrong, we could have gotten the latex cut in half for the same price. This would have benefited us because we had a terrible time putting the bed together and it would have been so much easier with smaller pieces.
-While putting the bed together, we damaged some of the latex. The large sheets are so easy to rip, and pieces of them sheared off as we carried it around corners. The firm layer on the bottom has a big tear in it. We also spilled a potted plant all over the latex, and were able to vacuum up the dirt but we couldn't get the stain out.

After sleeping on it for a few nights, we were surprised by how firm the bed feels. It did not feel that firm in the store when we were lying directly on the latex layers. We saw from a few posts here ( www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/general-mattresses/11852-new-latex-mattress-too-firm.html#14758 ) that there could be a "drum" effect from the mattress cover, protector, and sheets, so there's a chance those could still stretch out more. We then added a soft 1-in bamboo-fill topper: www.amazon.com/Bamboo-Mattress-Fitted-Skirt-Hypoallergenic/dp/B009GIRZEG?th=1

Now, with the topper (and before we added it), when you press down on the top of the mattress with your hands, it is extremely soft and "sinks in" a lot. We've also found it's very comfortable for belly and back sleeping. The problem is that I'm a side-sleeper, and while my shoulders are comfortable, I'm not getting any pressure relief in my hips. My hips are not "sinking down" enough. I think there's a chance it could still be the "drum" effect, but we only have two weeks left in the return window for Latex Mattress Factory.

So we called them up today and Thomas at Latex Mattress Factory extended our return window. He thought the best solution would be to replace our bottom layer with Medium (instead of Firm). So then the mattress would be three 3" layers of Soft-Medium-Medium.

Their policy is to only allow one exchange per year because they shred the latex after it's returned, so we're concerned about excluding other possibilities that we should try instead. We asked Thomas about ordering another Soft layer instead, so that it would be Soft-Soft-Firm, but he said that was more likely to cause back problems.

Phoenix, in your understanding, is this good advice? Do you think another Medium layer (Soft-Medium-Medium) would solve our problem?

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Box spring for latex mattress 08 Feb 2018 00:45 #6

Hi strandsofpearl.

When we originally called Latex Mattress Factory to talk about ordering the bed, we talked to someone who told us it would be way more expensive to have the latex for our king-size bed cut into two pieces. This was frustrating because we wanted them in two pieces to keep our options open, but we ordered the single large pieces for cost reasons.


I am not very sure I understand exactly your issue as the mattress you ordered from LMF is not a component style system, which means that you cannot remove the encasement to rearrange layers. The options you would have had at the time were to order a King or two twin extra-long mattresses. The site states very clearly the pricing for either twin XL or king. They may have quoted you for special order, and this would account for the added cost.

While putting the bed together, we damaged some of the latex. The large sheets are so easy to rip, and pieces of them sheared off as we carried it around corners. The firm layer on the bottom has a big tear in it. We also spilled a potted plant all over the latex, and were able to vacuum up the dirt but we couldn't get the stain out.


Latex can easily be torn and is sticky (having a high coefficient of friction) and so... it should be handled with much care when repositioning it. Fortunately, even with tears, latex will still maintain its overall properties and perform very well. When repositioning the latex it is recommended to have two people handling it with rolling the layer into a tube, placing it into the desired position, and then rolling it out. Any further minor adjustments can be made by putting a wave through it until the placement is correct.

If you are looking to clean the stain I would gently vacuum-clean it once more, then I would use only cold water and a sponge ... soak it and gently (the foam can tear) press out any excess water several times (or use a piece of dowel or something similar to carefully roll over it ), then soak up as much water as possible with clean absorbent cloths or a chamois so it is as dry as possible. Let it dry indoors away from any direct light sources or any other sources of harmful exposure (such as electrical machinery that produces ozone) until it is dry. Avoid any exposure to direct sunlight which can destroy latex. You could use a fan to speed up the drying process, but I would be cautious using heat as this may cure the foam and change its characteristics. If you are looking to sanitize the layer, then hydrogen peroxide could be a good alternative or baking soda followed by gently blotting with a water only damp cloth.

As far as exchanging it, you are very lucky that LMF agreed to replace the damaged layer and is willing to work with you. They are truly going above and beyond taking care of you as usually improper handling is not covered by any warranty and exchanges policies.

After sleeping on it for a few nights, we were surprised by how firm the bed feels. It did not feel that firm in the store when we were lying directly on the latex layers.


Again I am not sure where you may have tried this specific mattress and for how long have you had it, but you are correct about the drum effect…keep in mind that your mattress at home uses a mattress pad and fitted sheet, and this will also contribute to a slightly firmer feel than the showroom model (besides the fact that the showroom model may have already experienced some “breaking-in” from customer use). I would tend to wait at least 30 days before making up your mind regarding any potential exchanges or rearrangements of comfort layers. There will always be a period of time where the mattress “breaks-in” a bit, as well as you adjusting and losing some of your own personal “learned alignment”. Within the mattress, the latex can soften slightly, but the most adjustment you’d tend to notice will come from the fabric covering your mattress.

Now, with the topper (and before we added it), when you press down on the top of the mattress with your hands, it is extremely soft and "sinks in" a lot. We've also found it's very comfortable for belly and back sleeping. The problem is that I'm a side-sleeper, and while my shoulders are comfortable, I'm not getting any pressure relief in my hips


It seems that your hips are sinking through the fiberfill pad reaching the firmer layer below which might indicate the need for either a softer layer underneath or a thicker topper/pad (or extra layers) for some more cushioning for your hips.

So we called them up today and Thomas at Latex Mattress Factory extended our return window. He thought the best solution would be to replace our bottom layer with Medium (instead of Firm). So then the mattress would be three 3" layers of Soft-Medium-Medium.


It is a testimony to Latex Mattress Factory’s great service to extend the time frame for your return, they seem to go above and beyond about making you happy. I would certainly suggest that you to rely on their advice as they are much more familiar with their own mattress designs and materials than anyone else (including me) and they can use the information you provide them about your body type and sleeping positions, your preferences, your history on different mattresses, and the results of your local testing to make suggestions based on the "averages" of other customers that may be similar to you

We asked Thomas about ordering another Soft layer instead, so that it would be Soft-Soft-Firm, but he said that was more likely to cause back problems.


I certainly agree with Thomas’ assessment about the S-S-F combination which would definitely be a cause for concern in terms of alignment. I'm always happy to help with "how" to choose or to act as a "fact check, but remember that you are the only one that can decide “what" to choose in terms of either a mattress or the balance between comfort/pressure relief and support/alignment that may be suitable for you as only you can feel what you feel on a mattress based on your personal testing and your own experiences or more detailed discussions Latex Mattress Factory.

I look forward to any updates you might have once you have a chance to make the fine tuning adjustments to your mattress.
Good luck!

Phoenix
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Box spring for latex mattress 19 Mar 2019 10:30 #7

I just purchased a 10' latex custom split king from plush over the phone and they assured me that my lesss than 1 year old Beautyrest Black box spring would be fine and wouldn't ruin the mattress. I love that they weren't trying to upsell or anything and they have been super honest through the whole process but will we be doing damage to our mattress if we choose to not get the slats that are 3' apart or whatever the protocol is supposed to be?

We did D75,D85,D95 and D55,D85,D95 this way we can do every custom variation we would want for our 2 free exchanges.

Thanks so much and this website has been a tremendous help in our search for our 4th mattress in less than a year. Word of advice is to stay away from Beautyrest mattresses. They really put a damper on the whole process with how terrible of foams they put in there innersprings models.

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Last edit: by Supasta33.

Box spring for latex mattress 20 Mar 2019 11:48 #8

Hi supasta33,

Thank you for the kind words about TMU,
I am glad to hear that you've had a good experience with Plushbeds. And congratulations on the new mattress. :)! I hope that your one-year-old Boxspring is in good condition and that it works out for your new bed.

will we be doing damage to our mattress if we choose to not get the slats that are 3' apart or whatever the protocol is supposed to be?


Generally, for an all latex mattress, a slatted wood base with solid slats that are no more than 3" apart (or preferably less) is best for all latex mattress. A latex mattress needs just a solid base with enough supportive surface to make sure that it doesn't sink through any gaps and that the base is strong enough and supported on the floor well enough to take the weight of the latex mattress and the people that sleep on it. Normally this means that a slatted wood or even a metal base would be the best. Both of these are rigid non-flexing bases. The characteristics of the box spring are typically designed into the overall sleeping system itself and are an essential part of how the mattress is designed to perform in terms of pressure relief, alignment, and overall feel. In these cases, it is just as important as the mattress itself to achieve the design goals of the sleeping system. This would have more give under the mattress and can also be designed in many different ways to change the way the mattress feels and performs. As you got the "go" from Plush to use the boxspring you may wish to see how the entire system performs for you before moving in a different direction with the foundation. You can read more about foundations in Post #1 here or post #2 here about old box springs under a new latex mattress.

Looking forward to your future updates.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Box spring for latex mattress 26 Mar 2019 19:24 #9

Hi Phoenix, (or anyone else with experience with bases)

I'm having trouble sleeping a bit hot despite being on talalay. I'm using the bedding I found coolest through extensive experimentation with my last hybrid memory foam top.

How much does the base affect mattress temps? A slatted base would allow for some ventilation from the bottom. I've read that some people on memory foam use the most open base they can, even placing a small fan under the bed with good result.

Would that make a difference through latex?

I'm on a very solid adjustable base which allows zero ventilation from underneath. I'm considering selling it and getting this one:

www.amazon.com/dp/B07BMH455G/?coliid=I2GBFUH367DV1X&colid=953OU6IMDVJ7&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

The wire grids are small 2" squares and there are metal cross bars in both directions but I worry about enough support. I building a DIY so I can't get a manufacturers advice or approval. What do you think?

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Box spring for latex mattress 27 Mar 2019 15:04 #10

Hi Lotus14—

Zenhaven on its foundation was cooler than Zenhaven on the floor (which should have been cooler since cold air settles) so I'm going to say from personal experience, the base matters for warmth.

However, what I also think matters is Zenhaven on the floor felt softer, due the the lower foam being evenly compressed instead of intermittently. I've noticed more softness and comformity offers more heat. Same deal when I cut the encasement off my toppers. Since they kinda "hug" you, there's just less airflow. I know you're going for a plush build, so that could be a consideration...an encasement that allows a little less conformance might help, if you are directly on the latex now or sleeping on a thin encasement.

DIY bedding sells wool, which could also make a wicking layer.

I cannot speak from personal experience, but a coir "rug" is supposed to increase ventilation on top of a solid platform. Something to consider if the wire frame isn't up to the task of holding up the mattress.

That said, it might be worth reaching out to a manufacturer who makes a bed *similar* to your DIY, that's why they're here!

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