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Migrating from a sealy beachside (latex) matress

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29 May 2017 17:50 - 29 May 2017 17:52 #1 by Csj0952
I've been researching on this site for a good few hours and there is so much to read and digest. I'm currently on a sealy beachside mattress which is much and giving
me lots of lower back pain as I'm a stomach sleeper:
1) Is there anything I can do to buy more time to research like flip the mattress even though it's one sided?

2) I can't find the composition of the beachside sealy. Wondering if it's talaly and how many inches or what the makeup of is it so I can find something similar. I love that it has some kind of coolmax topper on it and would love to find something with a similar comfort layer allowing heat to dissipate easily.

3) I'm in upstate ny (Rochester) and there's no good mattress stores here it seems (though I have not gone to any around here yet since I'm still researching) based on your "certification" process. That said, I think there is extreme value in shopping locally since you can easier return the mattress and also try it out ahead of time. I'm apprehensive shopping online as I've heard of horror stories trying to contact customer support via internet with companies like Casper. I'm willing to drive a few hours away though if you know of anyone near upstate ny. Do you know of anything?

4) alittle about me. 24.5 bmi strict stomach sleeper (lately trying to side and back sleep though cause I'm in pain on current mattress). Can't decide between latex or pocket coil yet. Haven't really tried laying on a pocket coil. I value sleeping cool hence why I ended up with that latex bed the cooling technology on comfort layer. Can afford up to $2000 for a queen sized mattress. I Value good return policy and customer service. Continuing to research but not sure how much latex I would need in terms of inches and what type (assuming Dunlop for support layer) and haven't figured out what specifications I should look for in a pocket coil if I wanna go that route.

5) do you have a favorite charity I can make a small donation on behalf of yourself for your assistance as this site is awesome if not alittle overwhelming.

Thanks,
Chris





Here's what I've gathered so far
Last edit: 29 May 2017 17:52 by Csj0952.

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29 May 2017 20:05 - 31 Oct 2018 07:53 #2 by Phoenix
Hi Csj0952,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

I'm currently on a sealy beachside mattress which is much and giving
me lots of lower back pain as I'm a stomach sleeper:
1) Is there anything I can do to buy more time to research like flip the mattress even though it's one sided?


Being a stomach sleeper and the amount of plush polyfoam in the top of the Beachside, it isn’t surprising that it is giving you some low back issues. You certainly could flip the mattress over and sleep upon the latex core, which should feel firmer to you than the best in its “normal” orientation.

2) I can't find the composition of the beachside sealy. Wondering if it's talaly and how many inches or what the makeup of is it so I can find something similar. I love that it has some kind of coolmax topper on it and would love to find something with a similar comfort layer allowing heat to dissipate easily.


I found the specs of the Beachside a few years ago and have copied them over here from that post.

Quilt - Top of Mattress
1 ounce Flame Guard Fiber
1 1/2 x 1/2" Convoluted SuperSoft SealyFoam
1/2" SuperSoft SealyFoam

Comfort Layers
1" SuperSoft SealyFoam

SpringFree Core
8.9" Luxury Latex

So you have 8.9 inches of lower cost/quality mostly synthetic Dunlop latex (and it would be a safe assumption that it was in the "firm" range somewhere) which they call "smart latex" and 3 " of polyfoam (probably soft) in the comfort layers of unknown density and ILD (softness firmness level). Because the comfort layers are completely unknown in terms of ILD it would be too complex and the materials would be too different to try to "match" them by specs ... even if Sealy gave out the comfort specs such as ILD which they don't. The best you could "match" would be a guess about the better quality latex equivalent of 9" of firm synthetic latex with 3" of polyfoam on top but these are not specs that can be "matched" or "translated into other materials except by feel and memory.

Any material, including low quality polyfoam, can feel great for a while. The problem is it's not durable enough to continue feeling great or at least the same over the long term.

So I personally would use PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) as your "target" rather than how you remember the mattress felt when you first bought it. This will be much more accurate and you could end up with something better even than you remember.

As a "best guess" for testing I would probably use a Dunlop core of around 6" and a soft 3" Talalay comfort layer which probably be as close as you could get based on the limited information available but this is complete speculation and there isn't really any way to know how close this may turn out to be when you sleep on it without testing something similar.

So you could probably match the feel with longer lasting latex layers. It would have to be through testing and some guesswork though, and as you sleep prone, I would avoid choosing something that has too much soft material in the uppermost layers.

I'm in upstate ny (Rochester)


Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here ... the some better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around Rochester, NY, are listed in post #11 here .

That said, I think there is extreme value in shopping locally since you can easier return the mattress and also try it out ahead of time.


While nothing has a 100% success rate ... with a local purchase for the majority of people ... careful testing using the guidelines in the tutorial rather than just testing for the more subjective "comfort" of a mattress (which often won't predict how well you will sleep on a mattress or how it will "feel" when you sleep on it at home) and some good guidance from a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer will usually result in a mattress choice that is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and will generally be "close enough" so that if any fine tuning is necessary it would be relatively minor and involve different mattress pads, sheets, mattress protectors, or perhaps even a topper if a mattress is too firm (see post #4 here and post #10 here ).

Some good local testing will also give you a much better sense of the many different types of materials and components that are used in mattresses and some reference points about the types of mattresses (see this article ) and general firmness levels you tend to prefer which can help you narrow down your choices regardless of whether you end up purchasing locally or online.

I value sleeping cool hence why I ended up with that latex bed the cooling technology on comfort layer.


The amount of “cooling” that the cover material would provide would be quite temporary, and you can read more about phase change materials in post #9 here . There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range. Latex itself is a quite breathable material.

5) do you have a favorite charity I can make a small donation on behalf of yourself for your assistance as this site is awesome if not a little overwhelming.


If you’d like to make a donation to help support the site, you may do so here .

Phoenix

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Last edit: 31 Oct 2018 07:53 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

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31 May 2017 17:29 #3 by Csj0952
This response was very thorough and I have to take time to do more research but this gets me well on my way. I just donated $15 to the site for your help and I'll donate more if I need additional help.

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31 May 2017 17:44 #4 by Phoenix
Hi Csj0952,

Thank you very much for making a donation! I do appreciate it. And please realize that asking questions or using the site is not dependent upon making further contributions.

Phoenix

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22 Jul 2017 17:24 - 31 Oct 2018 08:05 #5 by Csj0952
So I did a lot of trying out mattresses in the Rochester area for latex mattresses. I even took pictures of what I tried so I could see what my spine looked like if it makes a difference or not. Pics here
imgur.com/a/nNBg0

First I went to Jamestown Matress and tried out Nature's Cloud Firm Latex

jamestownmattress.com/firm-latex-one-sid...es-cloud-mattress-2/

Quilt – Top of Mattress
1 ounce 100% Natural Joma™ Wool
100% Organic Cotton Fabric
Comfort – Padding Layer
Thick Polyester Pad
3” 100% Natural Medium (ILD 24-26) Latex

Back Support System
6” 100% Natural Firm (ILD 36-38) Latex Core

Which i liked how flat it felt but it might have been a little too firm. Maybe not, it was tough to tell as I only tested it for 5 minutes.

Tried out the Nature's Cloud Plush as well which I felt was ok as well but maybe alittle too plush.
Quilt – Top of Mattress
1 ounce 100% Natural Joma™ Wool
Paladin® Inherent Fire Retardant Barrier
1 ounce 100% Natural Joma™ Wool
100% Organic Cotton Fabric

Comfort – Padding Layer
3” 100% Natural Super Soft (ILD 14-16) Latex
Back Support System
6” 100% Natural Medium (ILD 24-26) Latex Core

Then I went to City Matress and tried out some Prana Latex matresses.
I liked the Prana Vinyasa Plush which I liked slightly better than the Prana Super Vinyasa Luxury Firm. But I didn't like how I didn't feel like i was sleeping on top of the mattress as I did with the Pure Talalay bliss below.

ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: citymattress.com/pranasleep-vinyasa-5-plush-mattress-set.html?setsize=queen
Ultra-luxurious Pranasleep mattress with Performance Talalay Latex to provide the perfect balance of support and pressure-relieving comfort
6” PranaSleep® Performance Talalay Latex Core
2” PranaSleep® Performance Talalay Latex Comfort Layer
3” PranaSleep UltraQuilt® with Outlast®

www.citymattress.com/pranasleep-super-vi...t.html?setsize=queen
Ultra-luxurious Pranasleep mattress with Performance Talalay Latex to provide the perfect balance of support and pressure-relieving comfort
6” PranaSleep® Performance Talalay Latex Core
3” PranaSleep® Performance Talalay Latex Comfort Layer
3” PranaSleep UltraQuilt® with Outlast®

Went to Metro Matress and tried the pure talalay bliss matresses which I really liked that they were flat top and you feel like sleeping on top of the matress which I like rather than sinking in.

Tried the Beautiful:
Specifications Beautiful
Latex BLISS uses 450-480 Gram Weight fabric
Latex BLISS Milliken's Paladin Fire Resistant Barrier
3" Natural Talalay Latex 19 ILD
2" Natural Talalay Latex 24 ILD
6" Natural Talalay Latex 36 ILD
1" Support Stabilization Base @50 ILD Firm Talalay latex

Didn't like the beautiful cause I felt it was too plush.

Per Pheonix:
The "new" version of the Pamper is as follows:
2" Talalay GL fast response on top (I'm guessing 21 ILD and they call this Active Fusion fast response)
6" of Talalay latex (I'm guessing this would also be 40 ILD)

I liked this matress but it felt possibly a bit too firm. I may have to try it a bit more.


So bottom line is that i liked the firmness of the Prana Vinyasa 5 Plush, however I liked the "feel" of the Pure Talalay Pamper but it was just a bit too firm. They told me I could buy a 2 inch matress latex topper which would soften it but thats another $800.

So I'm wondering where to go from here. Should I try SleepEz or I was looking at ordering from Spindle Matress because it appears you can customize the feel a bit.....or should I take a chance on the Pure Talalay Bliss and they have a 1 year gaurantee if I keep it in a cover. I didn't mind the Jamestown matress but I felt I liked the springiness of talalay over dunlop, I also heard talalay sleeps cooler than dunlop and I really prize a cool sleep.

Wondering also If I should dig into spring matresses but I have heard latex is almost better in every way than springs except cost. Is there any reason to go springs rather than latex besides cost?
Last edit: 31 Oct 2018 08:05 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Removed Page Not Found Link (404 Error) and Updating link to https: status

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23 Jul 2017 04:59 - 31 Oct 2018 08:08 #6 by Phoenix
Hi Csj0952,

So I did a lot of trying out mattresses in the Rochester area for latex mattresses. I even took pictures of what I tried so I could see what my spine looked like if it makes a difference or not. Pics here


I can’t tell of your alignment from photos, as that could only truly be determined through noting actual landmarks and a true biomechanical strength, flexibility and preferred personal alignment. I would trust your initial impressions when trying out the products, and defer toward items that offer a firmer surface comfort because of your prone sleeping posture.

Between the two Nature’s Cloud mattresses the Firm would generally be analysis, and even this doesn’t take into account your level of muscular preferable to the Plush for your sleeping style. With the Pranasleep mattresses, you’d want to know all of the details about the layers inside for sake of comparison (type of latex and polyfoam in the quilt), and with the 3” in the quilt panel I could understand why you wouldn’t prefer this feel so much sleeping prone. Between the two Pure Talalay Bliss products (the Pamper is a 21 ILD for the upper 2” and 40 ILD for the support core), the Pamper would be much more appropriate for sleeping prone (The Beautiful doesn’t spec out with the 1” 50 ILD support stabilization base from PTB, so I don’t know if that is something the dealership had under the mattress or if you’re copying dated specifications, just FYI).

So bottom line is that i liked the firmness of the Prana Vinyasa 5 Plush, however I liked the "feel" of the Pure Talalay Pamper but it was just a bit too firm. They told me I could buy a 2 inch matress latex topper which would soften it but thats another $800.


You’d want to know about the polyfoam in the quilt of the Pranasleep and I would have a concern over time about that with your sleeping posture and alignment sinking in a bit too much over time. A better solution would be the Pamper, with the possibility to add a topper over time, but I would make some very careful value equations about paying $800.00 for a 2” Talalay topper, and perhaps check with some of the site members here if you needed to make a topper purchase.

So I'm wondering where to go from here. Should I try SleepEz or I was looking at ordering from Spindle Matress because it appears you can customize the feel a bit.....or should I take a chance on the Pure Talalay Bliss and they have a 1 year gaurantee if I keep it in a cover. I didn't mind the Jamestown matress but I felt I liked the springiness of talalay over dunlop, I also heard talalay sleeps cooler than dunlop and I really prize a cool sleep.

Wondering also If I should dig into spring matresses but I have heard latex is almost better in every way than springs except cost. Is there any reason to go springs rather than latex besides cost?


There certainly would be nothing wrong with the quality of the products from SleepEZ or Spindle (as you’re aware both are site members here and I think highly of them), but as you mentioned these would be products you’d be unable to try before purchasing, and that was a concern of yours. Both Talalay and Dunlop are quite breathable materials, but Talalay in general is more breathable than Dunlop.

As far as other things to try, it's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see post #2 here ).

Phoenix

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Last edit: 31 Oct 2018 08:08 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

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23 Jul 2017 10:31 #7 by Csj0952
Thanks, I think I'm between the Pure Talalay Bliss Pamper (21 ILD for the upper 2” and 40 ILD for the support core) or a Sleep EZ Blended Talalay (assuming the 7inch or 9inch). The "blended" part concerns me.

1) Do you know if Pure Talalay Bliss beds are blended too?
2) If so wouldn't i be better off going SleepEZ just based on price or is there other factors where the PT Bliss would have advantages?

The spindle looks like it's dunlop so I'm ruling them out as I want to sleep as cold as possible.

3) Does anyone else sell pure Talalay? I like the springiness of the Talalay and I'd like a cover on it to help with heat dissipation if possible. Assuming wool is the best?

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23 Jul 2017 19:30 - 31 Oct 2018 08:10 #8 by Phoenix
Hi Csj0952,

The "blended" part concerns me. Do you know if Pure Talalay Bliss beds are blended too?


Yes, all of their Talalay is blended, and I personally wouldn’t have a concern whether the Talalay was blended (most of what is produced worldwide) or natural. They would be very durable and high-quality materials, and in the past Talalay Global has put forth information stating that their Talalay that is blended is slightly more durable than their natural line. There’s more detailed information about this here .

If so wouldn't i be better off going SleepEZ just based on price or is there other factors where the PT Bliss would have advantages?


There is more involved in the value of a mattress that just price, and there is more about the 3 most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for). You can also look at the ability to customize the SleepEZ product, and there may be advantages that you like dealing with your local retailer for the PTB product.

The spindle looks like it's dunlop so I'm ruling them out as I want to sleep as cold as possible.


I don’t know that you’d notice too much of a difference on a firm all Talalay or all Dunlop latex mattress using similar layers, but technically the Talalay will breathe better.

Does anyone else sell pure Talalay? I like the springiness of the Talalay and I'd like a cover on it to help with heat dissipation if possible. Assuming wool is the best?


There is no such thing as “pure” Talalay – that is just a marketing term used in the name of Pure Talalay Bliss. Talalay can be either synthetic, blended or natural, and all would be good quality and durable materials. While it may be more detailed than you desire, there’s more about durability here .

As for temperature regulation, wool certainly is a very good material at being more “temperature neutral”. In very general terms ... the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin and softer mattresses or foam toppers will tend to be more "insulating" and for some people can sleep warmer than firmer versions of the same material.

Overall, it's not really possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on sleeping temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials ... there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

I hope that helps.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 31 Oct 2018 08:10 by Administrator TMU. Reason: Updating link to https: status

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24 Jul 2017 05:02 #9 by Csj0952
I think I'm leaning towards sleepez but I'm wondering if I had the budget to spend more than $1300 what else should I consider. As in is there anything better than sleepez? It sounds like blended talalay plus the wool cover is the best of the best or is there any way to improve things further?

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24 Jul 2017 06:49 #10 by Phoenix
Hi Csj0952,

The quality of componentry you’re considering and the durability of this type of componentry is quite good, so as far as “better” is considered, that would be subjective and come down to your personal preferences. As long as you are dealing with good quality componentry, which in this case you are, what is “best” is what works best for your personally, and in the end can only be determined through your own personal testing, and your own personal value equation.

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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