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Brentwood Home Cedar Mattress 04 Aug 2017 06:58 #1

First of all, I would like to thank the developers of this Site. Fantastic information. I m trying to take it all in, but it is a challenge. One thing I have noted was your comment about large chains calling mattresses with a very thin latex layer a latex mattress. We almost were succkered to such a claim when I went home and found only a 1-2" layer in what would be an expensive bed for my price range. Thru reading your guidlines, I am leaning towards an innerspring with latex comfort layers. Once such mattress I found was the Brentwood Homes Cedar mattress. I would welcome any suggestions of other manufactures of similar construction to also consider. I have been trying to find a similar mattress locally to try out to make sure I like. Would prefer not to shop with the we can always return it philosophy. I think this is a relatively new mattress on their line as I can not find any reviews for it, not even on their website.

from the brentwood website, these are the layers

www.brentwoodhome.com/products/cedar-mattress?variant=42802428236

Cotton cover. Hand Tufted w/ hydrated silica sand fire barrier
Cotton fiber in quilted panels and borders
New Zealand Wood
2" Dunlop Latex (5.3lb/cf medium-firm) (4.0lb/cf medium plush)
2" Groved Dunlop (4.7lb/cf) ^^^^^ like that on top and flat on bottom
Flaxseed Fiber pad between latex and coils
8" wrapped coils (reinforced lumbar region, and edge retention coils, isolated springs) 1414 in king
coconut husk support layer

I don't really care about the "eco" natural qualities, but thought they might sleep cooler than synthetics.

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Brentwood Home Cedar Mattress 04 Aug 2017 13:06 #2

Hi bbeckers24,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

First of all, I would like to thank the developers of this Site. Fantastic information.


Thank you. I’m glad you’ve found the information useful.

I m trying to take it all in, but it is a challenge.


I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but just in case you haven't read it yet ... the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

Outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

One thing I have noted was your comment about large chains calling mattresses with a very thin latex layer a latex mattress. We almost were succkered to such a claim when I went home and found only a 1-2" layer in what would be an expensive bed for my price range.


Yes, that is one of the reasons to learn of all of the layers inside of a mattress in order to make careful value comparisons.

Thru reading your guidlines, I am leaning towards an innerspring with latex comfort layers. Once such mattress I found was the Brentwood Homes Cedar mattress. I would welcome any suggestions of other manufactures of similar construction to also consider. I have been trying to find a similar mattress locally to try out to make sure I like. Would prefer not to shop with the we can always return it philosophy.


While certainly not a complete list, there are some spring/latex mattress (hybrid) providers in post #2 here . Some of these are online-only and others can be found in brick and mortar locations. Post #2 here and this topic have more about the pros and cons of a local vs an online purchase.

I think this is a relatively new mattress on their line as I can not find any reviews for it, not even on their website.


While other people's comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful ... I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about using anyone else's suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words ... reviews or other people's experiences in general won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ).


The componentry used in this mattress is of a good quality and durable, using natural Dunlop latex for the comfort layers, and using natural fibers such as flaxseed and coconut husk for the fiber pads. Wool and cotton are contained in the cover. The pocketed innerspring unit is, I believe, the Leggett and Platt Quantum Edge Elite Combi-Zone, with extra reinforcement along the edge and in the center third of the spring unit.

I don't really care about the "eco" natural qualities, but thought they might sleep cooler than synthetics.


There are synthetic and natural fibers that can be quite breathable, but wool is a very good temperature regulating fiber. There is a bit more about temperature regulation in an overall sleep system in post #2 here .

Phoenix
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Brentwood Home Cedar Mattress 06 Aug 2017 18:42 #3

Found a local store to try similar construction. Must say I was not impressed with the feel. But I loved the full latex feel. Was shopping some of the sites from here and found two sites with the split construction. One had full split for all layers while the other had the option to split or combine either of the layers. Are there any reviews here of sleeping on all split layers? Do you get a valley in the middle, and would a combined top layer be worth the sacrifice of full split customization?

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Brentwood Home Cedar Mattress 07 Aug 2017 10:13 #4

Hi bbeckers,

Found a local store to try similar construction. Must say I was not impressed with the feel.


Just for reference, every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole", so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn't a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place). There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one.

But I loved the full latex feel. Was shopping some of the sites from here and found two sites with the split construction. One had full split for all layers while the other had the option to split or combine either of the layers. Are there any reviews here of sleeping on all split layers? Do you get a valley in the middle, and would a combined top layer be worth the sacrifice of full split customization?


I’m glad you found a style of comfort that you enjoyed. Regarding splitting of layers, there are some manufacturers who recommend that the top layer of their mattresses be a single layer, while others provide no such guidance. Part of the benefit of splitting all of the layers is the ability to fully customize each side of the mattress. With the mattress encasement surrounding and holding the layers of the mattress together, most people don’t notice a difference in the center of the mattress unless there is a large variation between the comfort configuration on each side of the mattress. Latex is a very “sticky” material, and infrequently someone on the forum will comment in a completely split configuration that the top layers where they meet in the middle will “catch” a bit on each other after weight is released off of the center of the mattress, and there may be a visually noticeable slight variation in level, but it’s not something that impacts performance or comfort. In the end it comes down to the comfort preference that you are looking to achieve on each side of the mattress, and trusting the advice provided by any manufacturer with which you’re dealing, as to the best configuration to achieve your needs.

Phoenix
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Brentwood Home Cedar Mattress 01 Sep 2017 03:33 #5

Seems like the brentwood home cedar mattress is similar to the nest bedding latex hybrid. I wonder if the ridged shaped latex layer of the brentwood home will hold up over time or if the ridges would start to sag.
On the nest bedding, which uses less latex and 7 inch pocketted coils, i wonder if the coils are of similar quality to the cedar.
Anyone try the firmness of the cedar mattress yet?

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Brentwood Home Cedar Mattress 01 Sep 2017 14:34 #6

Hi Psychmedic,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

Seems like the brentwood home cedar mattress is similar to the nest bedding latex hybrid.


While both of these mattresses are “hybrids” (pocketed spring units with various phones on top), they are quite different in design. The Brentwood Home Cedar uses two-2” layers of Dunlop latex in the upper comfort layers with wool quilted to the covering, where the Nest Bedding Alexander hybrid uses 2” of polyfoam, 2” of memory foam and 2” of polyfoam in the quilt, so both items would have a very different feel. The Nest is available in Medium or Luxury Firm versions. The Brentwood Cedar comes in one version of plushness, which they term a medium.

I wonder if the ridged shaped latex layer of the brentwood home will hold up over time or if the ridges would start to sag.


All foams will become slightly softer over time, even latex, but latex is quite durable and I wouldn’t expect the ridges to flatten out.

On the nest bedding, which uses less latex and 7 inch pocketted coils, i wonder if the coils are of similar quality to the cedar.


Both items used pockets spring units with firmer coils around the edge for extra reinforcement (Brentwood using a three-zone and Nest using a five-zone), and these would both generally be considered good quality support units (innersprings are rarely the “weak link” of a mattress).

Anyone try the firmness of the cedar mattress yet?


While other people's comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful ... I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about using anyone else's suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words ... reviews or other people's experiences in general won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ).

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Brentwood Home Cedar Mattress 01 Sep 2017 15:42 #7

Thanks phoenix. Nest does make another hybrid with latex instead of foam, but specs on density/ILD not given.

The Cedar dunlop latex is 4 lbs 15 ILD on top of 4.7 lbs 20 ILD. Seems on the soft side for a mattress marketed as medium but i heard you can't really go by ILD when it comes to latex?

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Brentwood Home Cedar Mattress 01 Sep 2017 18:57 #8

Hi psychmedic,

Thanks phoenix. Nest does make another hybrid with latex instead of foam, but specs on density/ILD not given.


Yes, you’re totally correct, and that was my error. I was reading too fast and saw Nest and Hybrid and went to the Alexander :S . The Nest Bedding Hybrid Latex does offer an interchangeable layer of 100% Natural Dunlop latex in either a Medium or Firm layer. There is also 2” of wool quilted to the top. It would differ from the Brentwood Home Cedar in the total amount of latex, in that it is not tufted and does not have the flaxseed pads and coconut husk layer, and the difference I described earlier in the spring units (which are more similar than unalike).

The Cedar dunlop latex is 4 lbs 15 ILD on top of 4.7 lbs 20 ILD. Seems on the soft side for a mattress marketed as medium but i heard you can't really go by ILD when it comes to latex?


It uses 2” of 4 lb of 100% Natural Dunlop on top of the 2” of the 4.7 lb 100% Natural Dunlop that is grooved into the three zones. But there is also the flaxseed layer on top of the spring unit.

ILD is usually the method used to describe latex, specifically Talalay, as there is an almost direct relationship between density and ILD in latex (which is not the case with polyfoam). It’s important to note that ILDs are ranges and not exact numbers.

ILD in latex is usually measured with a 6" thick layer of foam and it's basically the weight that it takes to compress a 50 sq in round metal foot into the foam by 25% (which would be 1.5"). This is different from polyfoam which is measured with a layer of foam that is only 4" thick so it would only be compressed by 1" (and the ILD number would be lower than latex). So first of all latex ILD is not directly comparable to polyfoam ILD. Some latex manufacturers also produce cores that are a different thickness which would also produce a different ILD rating compared to testing ILD on a 6" core. There are also different testing protocols for ILD so in some cases the ILD would be tested at 40% compression instead of 25% compression which would also produce a different result.

Different materials including latex have a variance across the surface of the 6" core so in one place it may be say 24 ILD and in another part of the core it may be 22 or 26. the ILD rating is usually an average of the range across the surface. Blended Talalay has less variance (=/-2 or so) than Dunlop which may vary by more (+/-4 or so). 100% natural Talalay can have a larger variance than blended Talalay. You can see some of the ILD's for different densities of Latex Green's 100% natural Dunlop in post #2 here .

The latex particles in Dunlop settle more in manufacturing so a 3" Dunlop layer that is cut from the bottom half of a 6" Dunlop core can be firmer than a 3" layer cut from the top half and the top would be softer than the bottom of the layer while with Talalay it's more consistent from top to bottom so it doesn't matter as much which part of the core a thinner layer was cut from. All the layers cut from a single core will be rated the same even though they may not have exactly the same ILD.

Most people don't sink exactly 25% into a layer and different types of foam ... including latex ... get firmer at different rates (this is called their compression modulus also known as sag factor or support factor) as you sink into them more. For example it takes about 3x as much weight to sink into a Talalay layer to 65% than it does to sink into it to 25% (a 24 ILD core would take about 72 lbs of force on the compressor foot to sink in 65%) but with Dunlop it takes about 4x as much weight to sink into the core 65% (which would mean that with 24 ILD Dunlop it would take about 96 lbs on the compressor foot to sink in 65%). This means that Dunlop feels firmer than Talalay for anyone that sinks into a layer more than 25%. Polyfoam would generally have a lower compression modulus than either although HR polyfoam has a compression modulus that approaches Talalay latex.

Talalay is usually accurately measured or at least it's within a fairly narrow range of the listed ILD but I have seen many Dunlop layers clearly mislisted in terms of the rated ILD (usually rated as being softer than they really are). Some of this is because they use a different system in some places. For example see the Latex Green site for example where they show KGF (kilograms of force) which some people seem to list as ILD when it is much different and lower than the actual ILD. Some Dunlop manufacturers only sell their Dunlop by density and "word ratings" rather than ILD. With Dunlop it's probably more accurate to compare by its density than by it's ILD unless someone has specifically measured the ILD somewhere along the supply chain. Of course to make a rough Dunlop to Talalay comparison you would need the accurate ILD of both and then you could assume that the Dunlop will feel firmer if they are roughly the same ILD.

So the bottom line is that Talalay is fairly consistently rated (especially blended Talalay) and would be roughly comparable between manufacturers and suppliers. Blended Talalay is the most consistent and 100% natural Talalay would have a wider ILD range. Talalay is often measured in 9 - 15 different places on the core and then averaged and rated by the "official" rating that the average is closest to.

Dunlop ILD on the other hand would likely be more correctly rated in a range by better manufacturers or suppliers, especially those that sell both Talalay and Dunlop, but may often be mis-rated by others. For example if you see one layer of Dunlop that is 85 kg/m3 density and rated at low 20's ILD range and another one at the same density that is listed at mid 30's ILD range you know one of them is probably wrong (and probably the lower one). The accuracy of the rating depends on the source and their knowledge of latex foam and on whether the ILD is a real measurement or just a guess or "mistranslation" from other methods. Dunlop latex that is accurately rated as being in a certain range (it's never a single number in reality) will also feel firmer to most people than Talalay of the same ILD range unless you only sink into the layer exactly 25%.

In addition to all of this ... the "word" ratings can vary widely between different sources and different people have different ideas of what firm or soft is so I would take these with a grain of salt. Either ILD in Talalay or ILD (if it's accurate) or density for Dunlop would probably be the best way to compare relative firmness between different Dunlop layers and sources if they are the same type and blend of latex. If two layers are a different type or blend of latex then ILD ratings may not be comparable between different layers.

So the best way to get a more accurate idea of the relative ILD's is to deal with better manufacturers or sources who will usually list their latex more accurately.

In the Brentwood Home Cedar, as listed you would have what more people would rate as a quite soft latex layer upon a medium latex layer. But remember, all of the layers of a mattress work together to provide overall comfort.

Phoenix
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Brentwood Home Cedar Mattress 09 Sep 2017 16:37 #9

Thanks Phoenix.
I've ordered the Brentwood Home Cedar mattress. Will let you know how it goes.

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Brentwood Home Cedar Mattress 10 Sep 2017 11:57 #10

Hi psychmedic.

Congratulations on your new mattress purchase!
:cheer:

I look forward to your future updates once you’ve had a chance to sleep upon it for a while.

Phoenix
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