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normal mattress like icomfort?

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05 Oct 2017 18:50 #1 by asilj

I went to Art Van to check out mattresses. Did the whole lay down and find your mattress type. Checked out the mattresses with the salesman. The salesman was really nice, which is a shame cause every website says these mattresses are garbage lol.

Long story short. I got rated for "medium" firmness. Ended up liking the Serta iComfort 1000PL the best, by like a lot. I had a problem with my butt sinking into a lot of the mattresses that pushed my back up. I'm a back sleeper. I don't know if this was completely fixed in the iComfort but it was the least noticeable.

So I guess my question is, what mattress would be similar to this one but made of quality materials that will last? Does anyone have any idea where to start? The Bear mattress is the most appealing one to me out of the online shops cause its targeted towards athletes, I know that's probably bullshit but it's something to go off of.

Also, this was supposed to have one of those "cooling" layers. The mattress felt cool to the touch.... but my back was sweaty within minutes. The person I was with was still cool though.

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05 Oct 2017 21:27 #2 by Phoenix

Hi asilj.

Welcome to our forum! :)

I went to Art Van to check out mattresses. Did the whole lay down and find your mattress type. Checked out the mattresses with the salesman. The salesman was really nice, which is a shame cause every website says these mattresses are garbage lol.


The job of the salesperson is to “sell” you on a certain mattress, and “being sold” is not what you want. Unless they were providing you information about the actual materials within the mattress and speaking specifically about the density and actual makeup of the materials, most of what you were told was more than likely regurgitation of marketing material with little meaningful information provided.

As for reviews or other people's experiences in general, they won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ), and I recommend you avoid considering them as any sort of a reliable indicator of the appropriateness of any particular product for your needs.

Ended up liking the Serta iComfort 1000PL the best, by like a lot. I had a problem with my butt sinking into a lot of the mattresses that pushed my back up. I'm a back sleeper. I don't know if this was completely fixed in the iComfort but it was the least noticeable.


Unfortunately the Serta model you mentioned or other major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here . along with post #3 here . and post #12 here . and post #404 here .).

So I guess my question is, what mattress would be similar to this one but made of quality materials that will last? Does anyone have any idea where to start?


While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see post #2 here ).

The first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here (there is a condensed version of it at the end of that post) which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones. Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are [url=]post #2 here [/url]which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and[url=] post #13 here [/url]which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

Outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

If you’re too overwhelmed in going through the entire mattress shopping tutorial, then in its simplest form ... choosing the "best possible" mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then ...

1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in this tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP ... and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or "fine tune" the mattress and any costs involved if you can't test a mattress in person or aren't confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight/BMI range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress (see the durability guidelines linked above)

3. Comparing your finalists for "value" based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

The Bear mattress is the most appealing one to me out of the online shops cause its targeted towards athletes, I know that's probably bullshit but it's something to go off of


Bear Mattress is one of the many “simplified choice” on line mattress options and you can read my comments about them in Post #2 here I would keep in mind that the only reliable way to know how a mattress would feel for you (regardless of how it feels for someone else) must be based on your personal experience or a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help to “talk you through” the specifics of their mattress that best match you based on the information you provide them.

Also, this was supposed to have one of those "cooling" layers. The mattress felt cool to the touch.... but my back was sweaty within minutes. The person I was with was still cool though.


The iComfort mattress you tested uses a TempActiv gel memory foam in the uppermost layer and although it may enhance the sleeping temperature of the foam ... memory foam still tends to be the most insulating and least breathable of the three types of foam ( which is memory foam, polyfoam, and latex) followed by polyfoam with latex being the most breathable. Of from the three main types of foam

It's not really possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on sleeping temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials. In very general terms ... the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin and softer mattresses or foam toppers will tend to be more "insulating" and for some people can sleep warmer than firmer versions of the same material. If you are interested, there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

Hopefully you can take some time to read through this information which will help to give you a good start in your mattress research.

Phoenix


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29 Nov 2018 22:49 - 29 Nov 2018 22:51 #3 by bdmma

Hi Phoenix/others,

I've done quite a bit of reading on the forums and was hoping for some advice on possible good brands to choose for my mattress. I've always had innerspring mattresses and elected for firm/cushion firm mattresses lately since I would have lower back pain if it was a soft mattress. The mattress I have now (Simmons) is too firm for me since it hurts my hips when sleeping on my side (my back doesn't hurt though so that's why I chose firm mattresses.

My favorite mattress I've had was a Serta Hybrid (I've attached 2 pictures below of it).
Unfortunately, when I moved I wasn't able to bring it with me. But it seemed to be ideal in terms of firmness with just enough cushion to not hurt my hips when I sleep on my side. I did find it started sagging after a year or so, but it was still comfortable.

Are there any brands/mattresses you can recommend checking that would fit well for me? I was also hoping to get a mattress that's allergen friendly and doesn't have much toxins. Do you think a latex mattress would be good for me? I'm in Canada and I see at Ikea they have a Mausand Natural Latex Mattress, which is 85 % natural/ 15 % synthetic latex. Or do you think a memory foam like Fleep or Silk and Snow would work well for me? Or should I stick with an innerspring core since I know that's ok for my back?

Thanks a lot and any advice from others is appreciated.

Attachments:
Last Edit: 29 Nov 2018 22:51 by bdmma.

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30 Nov 2018 23:54 #4 by Phoenix

Hi bdmma.

Welcome to our Forum! :)

My favorite mattress I've had was a Serta Hybrid
But it seemed to be ideal in terms of firmness with just enough cushion to not hurt my hips when I sleep on my side. I did find it started sagging after a year or so, but it was still comfortable.


Unfortunately Serta doesn't fully disclose the type and quality of the materials in their mattresses and also tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their comfort layers as well (See this video here of one of the TMU Expert member Arizona Premium of the site) and unless you are able to find out all the information you need to make an informed choice about a mattress (see this article ) I would avoid trying to match it based on design (see the guidelines here ).

Unless the manufacturer/retailer that you are considering purchasing the mattress from is familiar with Serta Hybrid and attempts to match the comfort/support you enjoyed before the mattress failed and started sagging there is little value in trying to approximate the performance you got used to in your old mattress. This is certainly possible if manufacturer has enough experience and knowledge designs and builds a mattress that is reasonably close to the softness and support of another mattress that is known to them and this is confirmed with their own personal testing (and preferably the testing of a larger group of people like their customers as well) but you have many other options available to ensure suitability that I’d be tempted to suggest that you make a "clean break" with your old mattress and start anew looking for what you really prefer and need in a mattress that would last you for 10 years or so.

Post #10 here has a step by step process that can dramatically increase your odds of finding your "ideal" mattress that has better quality and value than anything you are likely to find with a major brand or typical mass market outlet.

Do you think a latex mattress would be good for me? I'm in Canada and I see at Ikea they have a Mausand Natural Latex Mattress, which is 85 % natural/ 15 % synthetic latex.


I think you mean Mausund mattress which is an 8” medium-firm Dunlop mattes, but I I can’t predict what type of mattress you might do best with via an online forum, as there are entirely too many personal variables involved. Questions like yours get asked quite often on our forum and while I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see post #2 here ).

Or do you think a memory foam like Fleep or Silk and Snow would work well for me? Or should I stick with an innerspring core since I know that's ok for my back?


Again I can't predict how a certain mattress, material or layering may work for you but Fleep is a 10” reversible memory foam/poly mattress with 2 firmness choices (firm and soft) and you can read some of my comments about Fleep mattress here and also some postings that discuss Silk &Snow here , and here that might be helpful to you.

I was also hoping to get a mattress that's allergen friendly and doesn't have much toxins.


If you’re looking for something using polyurethane foam, make sure that it has at least CertiPUR-US certification for the foam. If you desire something more “natural”, but want to keep the cost as low as possible, there are many options out there, but I’m most familiar with some offered by our Trusted members . This being said Latex is a very good and durable material and I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it to you once you've tested it and determined that you like its feel.

The first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here (there is a condensed version of it at the end of that post) which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones. Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for)

Once you've had the chance to read through the information I have provided and do some local testing to narrow your choices feel free to get back to us and I or any of our Experts Members of the site will be happy to assist you.

Phoenix


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06 Jan 2019 12:22 - 06 Jan 2019 17:20 #5 by bdmma

Hi Phoenix,

Thank you for the suggestions and advice on selecting the right mattress. After doing research here, I went to buy a mattress at a local store here in Canada which was recommended by others. I just received my mattress and now I am realizing it is too soft for me. It is an all polyfoam mattress with 3 pound density for all the foam inside (10 inches of 45 ILD, and 1 inch of 19 ILD foam on top and bottom of mattress-which makes mattress flippable), with about 1 3/4 inch of cotton cover. As stated before, I've always needed a firm mattress or my back would hurt a lot. After sleeping on it for a night, my back hurts and it feels it's not getting the support it needs. I've always had an innerspring mattress before, so do you think an all foam mattress is not supportive enough for my back?

I believe the store I went to has a comfort guarantee where they would take the bed back and adjust it to my liking. What would you recommend telling them in order to adjust the mattress so it can be suitable for me? How hard would it be for them to adjust it to an innerspring with springs underneath the foam I received? They manufacture their mattresses on site.

Also, the edge support on the mattress is really poor. Is there anything they can do to adjust the edge support of the mattress? (He mentioned when I was there he could put rails inside the edges of the mattress.) Wouldn't it be better to use high density very firm foam along the edges or use coils near the edges?

Thanks and any advice is appreciated.

Last Edit: 06 Jan 2019 17:20 by bdmma.

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07 Jan 2019 20:44 #6 by Sensei

Hi Bdmma,

Those are good questions you pose in your post.

As stated before, I've always needed a firm mattress or my back would hurt a lot. After sleeping on it for a night, my back hurts and it feels it's not getting the support it needs. I've always had an innerspring mattress before, so do you think an all foam mattress is not supportive enough for my back?


Of course, only you can determine if a mattress has the proper support for your back. Depending on the quality of the material and the density / ILD of the foam, it is certainly possible for a mattress manufacturer to make an all foam mattress that is very firm and supportive for most peoples back needs. This is also true for innerspring mattresses, as these are made in many firmness levels. For many people, myself included, sleeping on something “too firm” can be painful for ones back. This is why it truly is an individual’s specific choice/decision for what is best.

I believe the store I went to has a comfort guarantee where they would take the bed back and adjust it to my liking. What would you recommend telling them in order to adjust the mattress so it can be suitable for me? How hard would it be for them to adjust it to an innerspring with springs underneath the foam I received? They manufacture their mattresses on site.


Regarding the comfort guarantee, this seems like a good thing they will “adjust” the mattress. Most likely they will want to exchange your current mattress and make you another one, I am not sure how they go about “adjusting the existing mattress” as this can be very inefficient for any manufacturer. It is possible that this company could make hybrid mattress (innerspring mattress with 2 or 3 inches of foam on top), but still, I have no information on what their existing product varieties.

Essentially your mattress is 10 inches of 3.0 Density 45 ILD foam, the 1-inch 19ild (top/bottom) helps a little for comfort. We don’t really make specific recommendations regarding constructions, but you clearly state the 3.0 density / 45 ILD is too soft. At least they have that as a new starting point, they should be able to guide you in a more firm direction. Then you can ask the relevant foam and or innerspring questions to check their recommendations.

Also, the edge support on the mattress is really poor. Is there anything they can do to adjust the edge support of the mattress? (He mentioned when I was there he could put rails inside the edges of the mattress.) Wouldn't it be better to use high density very firm foam along the edges or use coils near the edges?


You are actually correct in assuming high-density foam is usually used as “edge support”. I don’t want to assume what he meant by “rails” but this term is used in the mattress industry and it is just a term mattress people use when describing edge support, (picture two foam pieces down the side of the mattress, looks like rails of some kind). By no means does this mean a mattress without “polyurethane foam rails” can't be supportive, because they certainly can.

Thanks for the post, let us know what happens.

Sensei


Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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17 Jan 2019 10:43 #7 by bdmma

Thank you for the advice. I've been giving it some time to try to get used to the new mattress in case I would get used to it. I think it's still causing me some lower back pain because of lack of support.

I read before in this forum that it is the comfort layers that make up the feel of the mattress, which is why I suspected maybe it is the 1 inch soft layer on top, and the extra 1 3/4 inch cotton cover which is causing the lack of firmness. Do you think if they removed that extra 1 inch 19 ild soft layer on top, that would make the mattress much firmer to me?

I don't like the feeling of sinking into a mattress, and I get that sinking feeling with this mattress. Or do you think they would probably need to use higher density polyfoam as the base (higher than 45 ILD) to rectify the firmness issue?

Thanks a lot

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18 Jan 2019 18:38 #8 by Sensei

Hi bdmma,

You are very welcome.

I would be a little cautious about removing the 1" 19ild comfort layer. The "1 3/4 inches" of cotton in the cover seems a bit high to me. If you remove the 19ild layer, you remove any transition to the base 3lb/45 ild core. The cotton will break down faster than foam, as most fibers do to in quilted covers. Lacking any transition layer, your body will be right on the foam core.

Yes, this will feel firmer, but I would be cautious about how comfortable it will be over time. What seems better would be some version of "less cotton, higher ild comfort layer". I don't know enough about the cover/retailer/process but it can't hurt to inquire about different options for covers. Either way, I would see if they have any comfort layers between 24-32 ild to replace the 19ild. This increase in firmness will help make the mattress more supportive for your individual needs.

I look forward to hearing how supportive they are of these kinds of changes. Thanks again for posting this question.

Sensei


Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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11 Feb 2019 21:08 - 11 Feb 2019 23:03 #9 by bdmma

Hi, Thanks a lot for the tips. I am in the process of requesting a change to my mattress but I am still unsure of what to change exactly. I like a firm mattress, and I find in this mattress, my hips sink in far too deep (which I think is due to the top 2 3/4 soft layers they put on). My height is 6'2 and I weigh 170 pounds.

To refresh your memory, my mattress is: "10 inches of 45 ILD polyfoam, with 1 inch of 19 ILD polyfoam on top and bottom of mattress-which makes mattress flippable), with a 1 3/4 inch of cotton/foam cover."

I was thinking of altering the mattress to replace the 1 inch 19 ild layer for 1 inch of 45 ild polyfoam, and then just have them use a 1 inch cotton/foam cover. This way I would have a 1 inch soft comfort layer instead of the 2 3/4 inch I had before. Do you think this would be a good way to make my mattress firmer? I'm slightly concerned though that 45 ILD so close to the top would be very hard on my shoulders, as I already feel pressure on my shoulders with how it is now.

Another other option I was thinking (since it can be a flippable mattress) was to maybe make it different on the bottom side so there's a better chance one of them will work for me. Do you think maybe on the other side it would work if: I replaced the 1 inch 19 ILD layer for a 2 inch 36 ild polyfoam, and replace that 1 3/4 cover with a 0.5 inch cotton/foam cover? (Or i could use 2 inch 28 ild Talalay Latex on the bottom with a flat bottom cover)

Let me know if you have any suggestions or opinion. I like a firm mattress, and I know for sure that 19 ild layer is way too soft. But I was concerned that the 45 ild so close to the top would make it too hard on my shoulders.

I mentioned to the store what you said about transition layer, and he said the cover had foam inside so he said 1 inch layer inside or 1 inch in the cover would be the same for durability/feel.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks

Last Edit: 11 Feb 2019 23:03 by bdmma.

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13 Feb 2019 14:47 #10 by Phoenix

Hi bdmma,

Thanks for the update. Here are a few suggestions and responses.

I was thinking of altering the mattress to replace the 1 inch 19 ild layer for 1 inch of 45 ild polyfoam, and then just have them use a 1 inch cotton/foam cover. This way I would have a 1 inch soft comfort layer instead of the 2 3/4 inch I had before. Do you think this would be a good way to make my mattress firmer? I'm slightly concerned though that 45 ILD so close to the top would be very hard on my shoulders, as I already feel pressure on my shoulders with how it is now.


Well yes, it would make it firmer, but I do think that adding the 45 ILD topper to the top with the soft 1 ¾ comfort layer would be a problem for your shoulders, and not even sure it would improve for your hips. Your hips may not sink down as much, but pressure points will increase in both areas.

Another other option I was thinking (since it can be a flippable mattress) was to maybe make it different on the bottom side so there's a better chance one of them will work for me. Do you think maybe on the other side it would work if: I replaced the 1 inch 19 ILD layer for a 2 inch 36 ild polyfoam, and replace that 1 3/4 cover with a 0.5 inch cotton/foam cover? (Or i could use 2 inch 28 ild Talalay Latex on the bottom with a flat bottom cover)


I am not sure about trying different versions top/bottom…. maybe one will work, kind of defeats the entire flippable benefit. Of course, I understand the logic, but I think you have to decide whether you want to try this option. The option of using 28ILd Talalay with a cotton foam cover may help a lot, the 28 ild is used by people that want a firmer feel, and on top of a 10 45 ILD foam core, this is a “firm” mattress still. I think the cover with the foam/cotton 1 ¾ is better as some people do not like to sleep directly (thin cover) latex as it feels a bit more bouncy.

You may have read this, but I wanted to add the link about progressive constructions .

I hope this helps out!

Phoenix


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