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normal Options without latex or memory foam

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06 Nov 2017 14:30 #1 by Elisabeth

Quick sum up - Looking at options for a foam mattress that does not include latex or memory foam.

So my husband and I have been sleeping on a IKEA Sultan mattress for the past few years. It's a single 6" layer of foam - money was tight when we bought it. We layered a cheap eggcrate on top but I still found it too firm during pregnancy. For the past few years, it's been okay, but lately it has developed severe "geography" and finally bottomed out on one side. Overall, we liked it, but always preferred the older IKEA twin foam mattress my husband brought with us when he got married. Not sure of the age/composition - I need to break into the cover and check!

We dislike the feeling of latex - too springy - and hate the feeling of memory foam - too huggy.

Looking through our options, that narrows us down to Tuft and Needle and the new IKEA Morgedal. We have tried the IKEA mattress - the firm felt like a rock and the medium firm was barely tolerable. We haven't got a chance to try a Tuft and Needle, but do have a store within a 2 hour drive.

Are there any other options out there that I'm just missing in my research?
Some other contenders that I am still unsure about -
Brooklyn Bedding Best Mattress Ever - I haven't been able to find out how "latex-y" their TitanFlex foam feels. It seems like it might last longer and be a better quality than the Tuft and Needle mattress.
Love and Sleep Mattress - Same issue. How springy is their EnergexTM foam? I have no way of gauging that from their descriptions.

I even went so far as to price out what a custom mattress from a place like FoamOrder.Com would be, and the price was a little high for my taste. We just want a simple, comfortable polyfoam mattress that is softer than the ones IKEA sells now. Time Machine, anybody? I love my in-laws' mattress that they got from IKEA years ago - it's over a decade old and is just finally starting to soften and wear out.

Thank you SO much for all of the great info found here, it's really helped our search for a new mattress. There's so much marketing MEH out there surrounding them and a lot of the companies leave you with a bad taste in your mouth, with all of the lawsuits and less than moral marketing techniques. This place is a breath of fresh air!

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06 Nov 2017 15:43 #2 by Phoenix

Hi Elisabeth,

Welcome to the forum! :)

Quick sum up - Looking at options for a foam mattress that does not include latex or memory foam. So my husband and I have been sleeping on a IKEA Sultan mattress for the past few years.


There were quite a few different Sultan mattresses available a few years ago, with some using latex, latex and polyfoam, memory foam and polyfoam, high resiliency polyfoam, and just plain polyfoam.

Looking through our options, that narrows us down to Tuft and Needle and the new IKEA Morgedal. We have tried the IKEA mattress - the firm felt like a rock and the medium firm was barely tolerable. We haven't got a chance to try a Tuft and Needle, but do have a store within a 2 hour drive.


You can see some pictures of the Morgedal firm and medium mattresses in post #3 here . While the base layer is 2.2 lb polyfoam (it is not high resiliency polyfoam as Ikea lists it to be) which is a good quality material, the top layer of a mattress is normally the weakest link in a mattress because it is the layer that is most subject to the constant compression and deflection that is the main reason that foam will soften or break down over time and the top 4" - 4.5" layer in the Morgedal is 1.7 lb polyfoam which is a little lower quality/density then the 1.8 lb polyfoam that I would normally suggest as a minimum guideline for comfort layer, but a decent quality for an item in a lower budget range. The Tuft and Needle uses 3" of 2.8 lb High performance polyfoam on top of 7" of 1.8 lb polyfoam.

There are actually many different offerings containing only polyfoam, although a complete listing of everything that would be available nationally would be beyond the scope of this or any other forum. Even if a mattress has a small amount of memory foam in a “transition” layer, this doesn’t necessarily mean that the mattress would feel like a “typical” memory foam mattress. Just from the site members , there are offerings from Brooklyn Bedding , Dreamfoam , Memory Foam Comfort , Nest Bedding , and Sedona Sleep , that have all polyfoam.

Brooklyn Bedding Best Mattress Ever - I haven't been able to find out how "latex-y" their TitanFlex foam feels. It seems like it might last longer and be a better quality than the Tuft and Needle mattress.


The TitanFlex polyfoam is quite resilient, but probably not quite as “bouncy” as most people would compare to latex, and it is a very high quality material.

Love and Sleep Mattress - Same issue. How springy is their EnergexTM foam? I have no way of gauging that from their descriptions.


Descriptions are nice, but of course it would be impossible to relate the level of “springiness” of a completed mattress in any sort of a relative, relatable or meaningful scale. This is where only your own personal testing will be able to determine if the comfort of a mattress meets with your personal preferences. So it is always advisable when ordering online to become familiar with any potential return/exchange polices that a manufacturer might have available, should your purchase not turn out as well as you had hoped.

Thank you SO much for all of the great info found here, it's really helped our search for a new mattress. There's so much marketing MEH out there surrounding them and a lot of the companies leave you with a bad taste in your mouth, with all of the lawsuits and less than moral marketing techniques. This place is a breath of fresh air!


Thank you for the kind words. Hopefully some of the links I provided will assist you in your search.

Phoenix


Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read this post first.

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14 Nov 2017 14:22 - 14 Nov 2017 14:24 #3 by Elisabeth

Thanks for your response! I have been up late reading this forum every night as I toss and turn on our very, very bottomed out foam mattress. =P

I went out and tried some mattresses available locally today.
One store had a Posh+Lavish Restore in Medium - all latex and WAY out of our price range (3k). Felt hot.
Another place had a Sweda Stockholm - supposedly a medium firmness. Way firmer than I am used to.

I dove beneath our sheets and figured out that our current mattress is an IKEA Sultan Fåvang - 2.2 lbs/cu ft density. (Thanks, Wayback Machine!) I have always found it overly firm, but have gotten used to it - we put a cheap eggcrate topper on it.

Previously, we had only looked at latex mattresses at IKEA. I found the more expensive ones too be more to my taste, but still not quite what I wanted. They were all much softer than I am used to. I need to haul my husband down to the stores to see what he thinks. I doubt we'll go with a latex mattress (too hot) but it's a good thing to try out.

The jury is still out on what we will get. Competitors are the Dreamfoam, Brooklyn Bedding BME, and Nest's Love and Sleep.

Last Edit: 14 Nov 2017 14:24 by Elisabeth.

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14 Nov 2017 15:29 #4 by Phoenix

Hi Elisabeth,

Regarding temperature issues, there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

In very general terms ... the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin and softer mattresses or foam toppers will tend to be more "insulating" and for some people can sleep warmer than firmer versions of the same material.

All foams and materials insulate to a degree, and a softer mattress that allows you to sink in more will tend to feel warmer and also allow less area to be exposed for efficient heat dissipation, versus a harder feeling mattress that doesn’t allow you to sink in quite as much. As for foams, latex (specifically Talalay) tends to be the most breathable, followed by polyfoam and then memory foam. I'm not sure for your perception of feeling warm on the Posh + Lavish mattress (maybe you didn't like the thickness of the wool layer under their covering), but sleeping warmer on latex isn't as common as memory foam. But of course this is quite individualized and subjective.

Phoenix


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15 Nov 2017 10:02 #5 by Elisabeth

Thanks for the clarification about temperature and breathability.

Last night I ended up sleeping on the floor on a pile of blankets by my toddler's crib and it was MORE comfortable than our bed, so it's crunch time when it comes to deciding on a mattress purchase.

Here's where I'm at -

Titanflex (BME) - more bouncy than Energex
Energex (Love & Sleep, Arctic Dreams) - softens and becomes more resilient with heat, bouncier than normal polyfoam

There's a significant price difference between Love & Sleep and Arctic Dreams. Does the slightly lower quality of the base support foam account for most of this?

My husband and I are both 5'6", 160-170 lbs. My first pregnancy I topped out at about 210, and we're hoping for more kids down the line. You can definitely see on our mattress where I slept when pregnant - it's got a good 1.5" indentation. Would the Arctic Dreams provide enough support for someone of that weight sleeping on their side? On our Fåvang, I had huge issues with pressure points when pregnant, so I'm wondering if the Love & Sleep might provide more support if I have similar issues in the future.

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15 Nov 2017 11:27 #6 by Phoenix

Hi Elisabeth,

Thanks for the clarification about temperature and breathability.


You’re welcome.

There's a significant price difference between Love & Sleep and Arctic Dreams. Does the slightly lower quality of the base support foam account for most of this?


The lower density base foam, overall amount of foam, covering and comfort materials would all contribute to the pricing difference.

Would the Arctic Dreams provide enough support for someone of that weight sleeping on their side?


I can’t predict what might be “supportive enough” for you, but there are many people who sleep comfortably on the Arctic Dreams around 200 pounds. The real value of the Arctic Dreams is that it provides quite a bit of quality material at a lower price, and if keeping your price as low as possible is of utmost concern, then it could be a good option. However, overall, a 1.8 lb density polyfoam base would be preferable to a 1.5 lb polyfoam base for support/durability, so objectively speaking the 1.8 lb polyfoam base in the BME or the Love & Sleep would tend to be more durable.

Phoenix


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16 Nov 2017 18:46 - 17 Nov 2017 00:06 #7 by AJohnson

Elisabeth wrote: My husband and I are both 5'6", 160-170 lbs. My first pregnancy I topped out at about 210, and we're hoping for more kids down the line. You can definitely see on our mattress where I slept when pregnant - it's got a good 1.5" indentation. Would the Arctic Dreams provide enough support for someone of that weight sleeping on their side? On our Fåvang, I had huge issues with pressure points when pregnant, so I'm wondering if the Love & Sleep might provide more support if I have similar issues in the future.


I'm 185lbs and 6'1" (24.4 BMI), and am trying out an Arctic Dreams 10" right now. This has 2.5" of Energex as the comfort layer on top of a 6.5" core. I've personally found that my body heat softens the Energex too much, and my butt and back end up smashing it too flat and coming into noticeable contact with the harder core, to the point where it's slightly uncomfortable and I'm going to return it. and this is with back sleeping. if I were a side sleeper it'd probably be worse.

the thicker 12" Soft model of the Arctic Dreams instead has 3" of Energex, and an 8" core, which will give you more cushioning than the 10" Medium, but I still don't think that extra 0.5" of Energex would be enough. if you were a back sleeper, sure, but I still wouldn't risk it for a side sleeper near our BMI.

the Love and Sleep uses the same Energex, but has the thicker 3" layer, and more importantly, has a 1" layer of 2.0lb convoluted polyfoam between the top Energex and the base core, which should ease the transition between the Energex and core better than the Arctic Sleep. this looks like it'd be a much better option if you want Energex and are concerned about pressure points.

when you said you disliked latex, did you dislike the bounciness of it, or the firmness? if it was the latter, there are blends that are softer, and conform more to your body.

have you considered Ghostbed? it uses a 1.5" latex layer on top of a 2" memory foam layer. the layer of latex between you and the memory foam can buffer a good amount of that memfoam quicksand huggy feeling (while having a positive side-effect of making it sleep cooler), while the memory foam underneath the latex will blunt a lot of the bounciness. I'm guessing at all of this though, Phoenix would have to weigh in to be sure.

Brooklyn Bedding's #BestMattressEver might also be a good option, but I've read a lot of reviews saying that the medium firmness was significantly firmer than expected, and that the Titanflex foam takes a much longer time to break in compared to other foams (like, months) so give it a good long trial to make sure it doesn't just need more time to soften up before returning it if you end up trying it and not liking it. If you're a side sleeper, I might consider their Soft model over the Medium, although I have no personal experience with this mattress, so I can't say for sure.

Last Edit: 17 Nov 2017 00:06 by AJohnson.

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17 Nov 2017 10:22 #8 by Phoenix

Hi AJohnson,

I appreciate you taking the time on the forum to post some replies in various threads, but I’d caution you about making predictions on how someone else might react to a certain comfort, a certain level of support, or what mattress model might overall be appropriate, based upon your own personal testing or suppositions of how you think something might feel. While I know your commentary is certainly well meant, I’d tend to avoid attempting to take your own personal experiences (or suppositions) and then extrapolate that as to what may be appropriate for someone else. Providing “guesses” can often do more harm than good, as people will read this information and then assume it to be fact and then not take the time to do their own learning, testing and research to find what actually might work best for them.

but I still don't think that extra 0.5" of Energex would be enough. if you were a back sleeper, sure, but I still wouldn't risk it for a side sleeper near our BMI.


This is of course your own personal opinion, but you‘d have no way of knowing if this difference in construction (and you’re not taking into account the different polyfoam core) would be comfortable for another individual.

the Love and Sleep uses the same Energex, but has the thicker 3" layer, and more importantly, has a 1" layer of 2.0lb convoluted polyfoam between the top Energex and the base core, which should ease the transition between the Energex and core better than the Arctic Sleep. this looks like it'd be a much better option if you want Energex and are concerned about pressure points.


Again, you’re making assumptions on how something will feel for another individual of a few brands that you’ve been reviewing (Love & Sleep, BME, Ghostbed) based upon limited specifications which unless you were experienced in foam engineering and mattresses design (which would be very few people ;) ) you may not completely understand how these materials would interact for yourself or even another individual, which I’d caution against doing.

Phoenix


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17 Nov 2017 11:29 - 17 Nov 2017 11:44 #9 by AJohnson

Phoenix wrote: This is of course your own personal opinion


of course it is. who's else would it be. hence why I use the phrases "I think" and "it looks like" rather than definite judgements or statements. I never claimed anywhere that anything I said were objective scientific truths about a mattress rather than personal assumptions, and even concerning mattresses that I have personally tried, I always emphasize that I'm only speaking of my own personal experience

Phoenix wrote: Providing “guesses” can often do more harm than good, as people will read this information and then assume it to be fact and then not take the time to do their own learning


my posts are meant to be taken as possible supplementary opinion to be used along with the rest of their extensive personal research. of course someone shouldn't use an opinion from someone who hasn't even tried the mattress (or even someone who has) as their only research when buying a mattress for themselves.

I assumed that people would implicitly know that my posts are my personal opinion and assumptions only, and that they don't represent objective scientific mattress facts, but I guess I have to end every post with an explicit lengthy disclaimer to be able to post any opinions or guesses about anything on this board.

Last Edit: 17 Nov 2017 11:44 by AJohnson.

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17 Nov 2017 15:42 #10 by Phoenix

Hi AJohnson,

I appreciate your thoughts.

The difficulty with moderating forums like this is when people don’t realize they’re offering specific suggestions (“I still wouldn't risk it for a side sleeper near our BMI”), or opinions on how something will feel without any knowledge of such (“this looks like it'd be a much better option if you want Energex and are concerned about pressure points”), or making qualified statements about a product and then admitting they don’t have knowledge of what they just offered (“I'm guessing at all of this though”, “If you're a side sleeper, I might consider their Soft model over the Medium, although I have no personal experience with this mattress, so I can't say for sure.”)

Thousands of people read through this forum daily, and when statements such as those offered are made with such certainty, people might take them as fact, when they aren’t. And too many people are simply looking being told what to do, regardless of the source and quality of the advice. And that’s not the focus here on this forum.

While you’re of course free to contribute here on the forum, it will also continue to be incumbent upon me to make clarifications or corrections on statements that may be inaccurate or misleading so that others reading here on the forum don’t take them too seriously or at least realize the statements are specific to one individual.

Phoenix


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