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Can someone provide any insight on the CozyPure flippable firmness convention? 12 Nov 2017 19:47 #1

Hey all,

First of all I want to thank both the members and the administrators for providing such an excellent resource about mattresses. I've been educating myself about the mattress industry for about two months in preparation for the purchase of my first "nice" mattress.

I am fairly certain that I would like a full latex mattress. I have tried several brands at local brick and mortar stores but was always left dissatisfied by either the mattress selection or the general lack of in-depth knowledge of the staff.

Of all of the online vendors that I have looked at I am particularly interested in Cozy Pure and their "modular" design. I, unfortunately, live about 10 hours from their showroom so making an in-person visit is not on the table.

I am considering the 7", 9", and 10". The 10" Queen is at my absolute max budget at around $2,000 and the other two are far more affordable. In an attempt to get some suggestions about what mattress / firmness (for the 3" comfort layer on the 10" mattress) I should choose, I gave them a call and spoke with a very nice rep. Unfortunately, though, he confused me a bit and provided me with some advice that, at face value, seemed to buck the general consensus of this site.

He suggest for a stomach sleeper such as myself that I purchase the 10" mattress with a medium firmness 3" comfort layer. He said that if it ended up being too soft then I should just simply flip the entire mattress over (placing the comfort layer at the bottom) to achieve a higher firmness. This advice seemed kind of strange and "haphazard" to me. I've gotten the impression from this site that the comfort layer's purpose is to provide a softer "buffer" between the user and the firmer support layer. His advice also left me wonder why I shouldn't just save a ton of money and purchase the 7" mattress if there is a high likely hood that I would be sleeping directly on the support layer anyway. I tried to clarify by asking "Do you mean I should remove the support layer from the mattress, flip it around, and then reinsert it under the comfort layer?" to which he replied "Nope, just flip the entire mattress and sleep with the comfort layer on the bottom."

So (finally) my questions are:

- Is it a hard and fast rule that the comfort layer is meant to be between the sleeper and the support layer? Am I misunderstanding this or did he just give some crummy advice?

- What's up with the flippable support layer in their mattresses? The fact that the layer has two "firmnesses" seems a bit gimmicky to me and is kind of creating more questions than answers in my mind -- especially when adding in variables such as optional convoluted and comfort layers.

- If support is so quick to suggest sleeping with the comfort layer on bottom (which in my mind seems to kind of defeat the purpose) then is it even worth the extra $700? The 7" mattress with only the support layer is ~$1,300 for a queen.


Thanks,
Sam

EDIT: Just in case this is helpful I'm 6' 1" and ~200 lbs

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Last edit: by saml.

Can someone provide any insight on the CozyPure flippable firmness convention? 12 Nov 2017 21:51 #2

Thank you for posting this! I have similar questions about simply moving the comfort layer down if it is too soft. I have spoken with SleepEZ. They recommend S-M-F in a 10" mattress and say that "getting it right" is almost guaranteed with three different firmness levels.

We will see what Phoenix has to say about this...

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Can someone provide any insight on the CozyPure flippable firmness convention? 13 Nov 2017 13:00 #3

Hi saml,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

First of all I want to thank both the members and the administrators for providing such an excellent resource about mattresses.


You’re very welcome.

I am considering the 7", 9", and 10". The 10" Queen is at my absolute max budget at around $2,000 and the other two are far more affordable. In an attempt to get some suggestions about what mattress / firmness (for the 3" comfort layer on the 10" mattress) I should choose, I gave them a call and spoke with a very nice rep. Unfortunately, though, he confused me a bit and provided me with some advice that, at face value, seemed to buck the general consensus of this site. He suggest for a stomach sleeper such as myself that I purchase the 10" mattress with a medium firmness 3" comfort layer. He said that if it ended up being too soft then I should just simply flip the entire mattress over (placing the comfort layer at the bottom) to achieve a higher firmness. This advice seemed kind of strange and "haphazard" to me. I've gotten the impression from this site that the comfort layer's purpose is to provide a softer "buffer" between the user and the firmer support layer. His advice also left me wonder why I shouldn't just save a ton of money and purchase the 7" mattress if there is a high likely hood that I would be sleeping directly on the support layer anyway. I tried to clarify by asking "Do you mean I should remove the support layer from the mattress, flip it around, and then reinsert it under the comfort layer?" to which he replied "Nope, just flip the entire mattress and sleep with the comfort layer on the bottom."


I’m glad you took the time to phone Cozy Pure directly and receive direct and personalized advice. As you may be aware, they are a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. They are extremely knowledgeable about latex and different configurations, and you should be happy to know that the advice you received is neither “haphazard” nor does it “buck the general consensus of the site”.

Prone sleepers tend to require a bit of a “firmer” sleeping surface (see this article) , and in the 10” mattress the choice that was recommended for you would be a common option. The nice option you have with the Cozy Pure is that they tailor the mattress to be two-sided, with a different comfort on each side. To achieve a different comfort, you have the option in this case to either flip the mattress over and sleep upon the firmer core, or you could keep the mattress in its current orientation and swap out the top layer. The direction you choose would be based upon the plushness/firmness you’d want to achieve and move toward based upon your current set up.

The uppermost layers of the mattress are generally labelled as the “comfort layers”, and those can be either hard or soft. In most cases, the layers move from softer to firmer as you move from top to bottom, with a thinner layer on top, in what I describe as a “ progressive design ”.

If you would flip the mattress over for a bit of a firmer surface comfort, you’d be creating a design that is what I term a “ differential construction ” with a “dominant layer” on top.

Dominant layering can have a very different "feel" to a more traditional progressive layering where the softest layers are on top. It provides a firmer sleeping surface and the surface foam compresses less than it would if it was a softer layer and tends to "bend" more into the softer layer below it so it can still provide good pressure relief and "give" under the pressure points (as long as the dominant layer isn't too thick and prevents the softer layer below it from "coming through" or compressing enough).

It is a good solution for people who prefer a firmer, "crisper", or less "mushy" surface feel or greater freedom of movement and don't like the feeling of sinking in directly to the top foam layer as much but still need good pressure relief that comes from underneath.

The "feel" and performance of dominant layering can be "nuanced" or changed a lot depending on the thickness of the dominant layer and it's firmness relative to the ILD of the layers below it and the thickness of the softer layers underneath. It can reduce the amount that the heavier parts of the body sink down into the softer layers of the mattress (especially if the softer layers underneath aren't too thick) but still provide good pressure relief under the pressure points (again depending on the thickness of the firmer layer). So it can be a way to increase some surface plushness without the product allowing you to sink in too deeply initially.

In some ways it's similar to an innerspring that has a variable spring rate that is softer with initial compression and firmer once the soft section of the spring is compressed and that has one or more layers of foam above the spring that are firmer than the softer part of the spring. It would be fair to say that it's a different kind of softness with firmer overtones.

Some examples of other posts that talk about dominant (or dominating) layers in one form or another are here and here and here .

Flipping over this mattress would be akin to having a three-part component-style mattress of medium/firm/firm, and then rearranging the layers to be firm/firm/medium (top to bottom), creating the same style of “dominant layer” arrangement. Post #7 here (latex monozone unique properties) speaks a bit to the unique properties of latex and how a solid piece can in effect work as a “zoned” product with the variations in the compression modulus and more weight is applied.

- Is it a hard and fast rule that the comfort layer is meant to be between the sleeper and the support layer? Am I misunderstanding this or did he just give some crummy advice?


I would consider the advice sound per the reasons I listed previously in this post. No worries there. And overall I wouldn't get too caught up in "labelling" certain layers.

- What's up with the flippable support layer in their mattresses? The fact that the layer has two "firmnesses" seems a bit gimmicky to me and is kind of creating more questions than answers in my mind -- especially when adding in variables such as optional convoluted and comfort layers.


The advice is anything but “gimmicky” and is quite accurate.

- If support is so quick to suggest sleeping with the comfort layer on bottom (which in my mind seems to kind of defeat the purpose) then is it even worth the extra $700? The 7" mattress with only the support layer is ~$1,300 for a queen.


You certainly could do that, but the 7” mattress would neither feel the same as the 10” model, nor would it have the options for adjustability in comfort by flipping or through exchanging of the upper comfort layer. All of the layers of a mattress work together to achieve overall comfort, with changes made to the uppermost layers having the most noticeable impact in comfort.

While you’re not necessarily in a higher BMI, at 200 lb you certainly might find it more comfortable to follow some of the higher BMI guidelines where such a population in general will need firmer and thicker comfort layers and firmer support layers than those who are lighter. The 10” mattress would allow for more of that than the 7”, but again much of that can come down to personal preferences.

While I certainly understand (and even advise at times) a certain amount of skepticism when shopping for a mattress and wading through so much of the marketing material that is out there, some of your comments seem to be more cynical in nature, so I’m not sure of the reasoning for that, unless perhaps you’ve unfortunately had some bad experiences in the past when shopping for a mattress (which would be many of us out there! ;) ). Regardless, I wouldn’t have a concern with the advice you’ve received as it applies in general. Of course, in the end, only your own personal testing will be able to determine if a comfort of a mattress is appropriate for your own individual needs, and a manufacturer can only provide the advice that they honestly think will best meet those needs based upon the information you provide them and their experience with their own products and clients they’ve previously assisted with similar needs/somatotypes.

I know that’s a quite a bit of information, but I hope it helps clarify some of things you were told. If you have other more specific questions, I’ll do my best to be of assistance.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Can someone provide any insight on the CozyPure flippable firmness convention? 13 Nov 2017 13:34 #4

Pheonix,

Thank you very much for the thoughtful and detailed response. It was incredibly helpful and cleared up a lot of misconceptions that I had. I think the majority of my confusion came from my assumption that a firmer base layer would somehow "nullify" the softer, thinner comfort layer in the inverted configuration. After reading your explanation it is now apparent to me that these layers work together as a single "unit".

Thanks again and keep up the good work,
Sam

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Can someone provide any insight on the CozyPure flippable firmness convention? 13 Nov 2017 14:59 #5

Hi saml,

I'm glad that the information I provided was helpful to you!

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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