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DIY latex mattress help ( budget )
Just to make sure, I took the 4 inch poly base foam off and put it on the cement basement floor. I laid on it on the very edge and my middle was supported, moved to the middle... Bam, no support. One year folks, and this was supposedly 1.8 pound foam with a lifespan of 5-8 years. For reference I weigh 140, so in no way on hard on a mattress. I don't know how it became noticeable so quickly, but it did. My intuition it that it was disrupting my entire latex experiment so I'm going back to latex as a bottom layer. Hope this helps anyone who is considering foam from the afforementioned source.
Without having your foam core in front of me I wouldn't be able to offer advice if what you're experiencing is a normal softening in the area of use, or excessive "impressioning". Also, I forgot what you are using as a foundation and if this could be contributing to what you are experiencing. And I know you've already read some of the comments offered on the forum about FBM.
4" for a support core is a little thinner than what is commonly used for polyurethane foam (6" is closer to "normal"), but that doesn't mean that it can't work. Selecting a true HR polyurethane foam (minimum 2.5 lb density and 2.4 compression modulus) in a firmer IFD can help with consistency and durability. If you choose to go to 4" of latex, you may wish to consider Dunlop, as in the smaller thickness it will tend to firm up a bit more as weight is applied than a similar piece of Talalay. Although at a higher ILD/density both would be "firm" and at 140 pounds you're not doing considerable damage to either item.
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator
Beducation /Mattress To Go
I didn't see how to start a new thread, so hopefully this will be ok.....We just bought two pieces of foam and started a DIY King bed. For the core we chose a 6 " of HQ Lux ILD 50 & over this is 3 " of Dunlop Latex 29ILD 4.6#. We have slept on it two nights. It's really firm but already my back feels better. I have a couple of convoluted foam toppers....one 2 inches that feels like a decent piece of foam and another one 1 inch that feels cheaper. I have no specs on these cause they came out of a mattress that we tore apart just to see what was in it! Cleaning, I casually threw the 2 inch topper across the new bed. A bit later I took a lie down.....boy! that was exactly what my combination mattress needed....an inch or so of soft! I had been thinking of getting another piece of inner foam, thinking that maybe HQ36 on top of the #50 would soften things a bit,,,,but perhaps I should get an inch or two of a latex topper? How soft should I go. I only want a bit to soften the hips and shoulders . Hubby is heavy and does not like a plush bed and frankly the firm ones really agree with me better, but I sure like this little bit of soft. I am leaving it there on the top for the time being.
Welcome to our forum!
I moved your post to a more appropriate topic
I am glad that your DIY experiment is turning out so well, and that you need just a bit of fine tuning to get it just right. Unfortunately it's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see post #2 here ).
If you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components and a separate cover then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project ... the best approach to a DIY mattress is a "spirit of adventure" where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).
There is also more about primary or "deep" support and secondary or "surface" support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the "roles" of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between "support" and "pressure relief" and "feel" that may be useful as well.
For those who decide to take on the challenge then I would either use the specs (if they are available) of a mattress that you have tested and confirmed is a good match for you in terms of PPP as a reference point or blueprint and try and "match" every layer and component in your reference mattress as closely as possible or use a "bottom up" approach (see post #2 here ).
The thickness of a mattress is only one of many variables that can affect the feel and performance of a mattress but in higher weight ranges (or a higher BMI) the odds are higher that you may do better with a mattress that is thicker than lower weight ranges or a lower BMI (see post #14 here for more about the effect of thickness) but even this depends more on the specific design and combination of materials in the mattress and on how well your testing or personal experience indicates the mattress "as a whole" matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP than it does on just the thickness itself.
It will also depend on your body type and sleeping positions as well because side sleepers may need more softness and contouring than back or side sleepers.
We slept on the additional 2 inch waffle foam. Hubby said he slept good though he was a bit stiff. I "slept" and again my back did not have that awful ache that had moved in with me on our old mattress. (it was represented as a partial "latex mattresses" and i will shine your shoes if there was a lick of latex in it!) Anyway, I have had total Hip replacement on both sides and while I have no "pain"? I do have a tenderness on each of those hips when sleeping on them and I awake and need to turn over before morning. The newest aches in less time than the older one, so I may improve more with time. I am afraid of going too soft and the back will hurt again, so judging how the plain foam helped a bit, I am inclined to go with a couple inches of actual Latex foam in a topper. I surmise I will be still getting some softness and the "feel" of latex pleases me First I am gonna keep sleeping on this combination and see how and if we adjust. Thanks so much for your reply and I understand you can't tell another person what they are going to "feel"......I have done a couple of tons of reading on this site and some others and feel like I have learned a LOT about mattresses. Will ck in on how things continue for us
I have had total Hip replacement on both sides and while I have no "pain"? I do have a tenderness on each of those hips when sleeping on them and I awake and need to turn over before morning. The newest aches in less time than the older one, so I may improve more with time. I am afraid of going too soft and the back will hurt again,
Great to hear that the hip replacement was successful and that your pains vanished (I would guess that some tenderness in the hips is probably normal).
Your concern is justified and you are on the right track in not wanting to go too soft as in your case good alignment is much more of a priority then pressure relief. Having hip sensitivity would cause you to reposition more often and while most people don’t recall each time they reposition themselves, 20 to 40 times a night would be common. If you go too soft with the top layer you would sink in deeper within the new mattress which would cause to remain in the same position longer which again can result in more tenderness than for someone that is repositioning in a normal range throughout the night.
I am inclined to go with a couple inches of actual Latex foam in a topper. I surmise I will be still getting some softness and the "feel" of latex pleases me First I am gonna keep sleeping on this combination and see how and if we adjust.
Adding just a bit of extra plushness seems a step in the right direction and it is good that you like the feel of latex as this would be a more supportive material whilst still contouring around your body and offering the comfort you need. It is great that you have the foresight to give your body time to adjust to the new sleeping environment and that you are watching for how the new changes are playing out over a longer period instead of rushing into fixing the comfort issue. This way you are cooperating with your body and watching for the right clues as to how to fine tune the new arrangement. If you make changes that are too large (such as adding a topper that is thicker than you need) then you could go from one extreme to another (from too firm to too soft for example) and "jump over" the ideal combination.
I look forward to learning about your progress.
It seems we are on similar paths in our diy mattress'. I am also dealing with foamorder, can you tell me how the hr23 feels compared to the 19 ild talalay etc? Have you come up with any more progress? Did you get the hr34 from foamorder? If so what do you think of it? Foambymail seems to get bad reviews so I'd take that in consideration for the durability of 1.8 lb hd polyfoam. I purchased a slab off an eBay seller where they manufacturer it in N. Carolina, the type with soy in it and put it in my couch which gets as much use as any bed and 8 years later it's just starting to go downhill and 8 years was how long it was supposed to last. Curious, what material mattress cover did you settle with? I see foamorder has a 100% Cotton double knit cover. I thought the Pure Talalay Bliss' Beautiful was 3" 19 ild on top, but maybe it's 14? The cover is 98% polyester 2% elastane, it is very conforming and can be purchased as a replacement cover thru sellers of PTB though a bit pricey.
I'm not sure if this is a set of questions directed at me or not but I will answer them regardless. My DIY journey has come to an end and I would say it was a success(after many mistakes). It took me about 2 months of experimenting with different materials in different combinations and thicknesses. I replaced the bottom support layer of my mattress with latex instead of poly. I had 4 inches of 35 ild poly from foambymail which lasted me a year, so I really did not want to chance durability again. My current completed set up is: 3 inches 38 ild dunlop, 3 inches 30 ild dunlop, 3 inches 19 ild talalay, one inch of 3lb soft memory foam. I have this inside of a polyester stretch knit cover which I purchased from Ebay, mattresses247, which I like very much. I like the stretch knit cover more than cotton personally, because it allows me to sink into the latex more and get more of a conforming feel. I have been sleeping on the completed mattress for about 3 weeks now, the bed feels great and is probably the most comfortable I have ever slept on. I have no pain in the morning, or if I do it's not mattress related. Personally I am glad I didn't go down the poly road again in the support layers, as I can look forward to an above average lifespan with dunlop. I'm also very satisfied with talalay on top of that, with the 1 inch of memory foam for a bit of surface feel. I had hr23 from another vendor (not foamorder) and to me it wasn't soft and conforming enough for a comfort layer, so I took it out of the final build completely. In my opinion it was more suitable for a support layer. Take in mind, I weigh 150 so your results may be different.
* I meant 140 pounds, slipped on the laptop keyboard. Also I think I forgot to mention, I never actually ordered anything from foamorder.com. While I believe they are probably a good source of foam, I went with dunlop from latexmattressfactory.com. Their customer service has been simply the best, and their dunlop is grade A. For me dunlop was just what I was looking for. This mattress keeps me in perfect alignment and I think dunlop is the reason. It also did not give me the bouncy feeling that an all Talalay mattress did when I tried to build that type of bed, feels more like poly if that makes any sense. This is just my opinion, but more than one way to approach things.
Thanks for your contributions to our forum and such a great outline of your successful DIY journey. I appreciate it.
I am glad that you are continuing to sleep well.