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normal Is there such a thing as too firm for a stomach sleeper?

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03 Dec 2017 23:08 #1 by Csj0952

I bought a new firm coil mattress cause I'm a stomach sleeper and I'm getting some pretty bad lower back pain in the morning unless I put 3 folded towels under my stomach to actually raise my spine up a bit more. I actually think it's cause my mattress could be too firm where my thighs and arm which lays under my pillow which my head sits on doesn't sink into the mattress much. I've been on this mattress for 3 weeks now so I think it's somewhat "broken in". It's almost like I want the mattress to give more near my thighs and knees as well as my shoulder area but not under my lumbar spine.

I included some photos here: imgur.com/a/itCs9

The mattress I'm on is called

Dynasty Firm from Jamestown mattress:
Foam in the quilted panel:
1/2" - 1.8 lb. density - 20 ILD
1" - 1.8 lb. density - 34 ILD
Comfort Layer:
1" - 1.8 lb. density - 35 ILD

I could have them redesign it to a:

Dynasty Plush:
Foam in the quilted panel:
1 1/2" - 1.8 lb. - 20 ILD
Comfort Layer:
1" - 1.8 lb. density - 35 ILD
3/4" - 1.5 lb. density - 33 ILD

or a Eurotop mattress which is:
Dynasty Plush:
Foam in the quilted panel:
1 1/2" - 1.8 lb. - 20 ILD
Comfort Layer:
1" - 1.8 lb. density - 35 ILD
3/4" - 1.5 lb. density - 33 ILD
2” – 1.8 lb. density – 35 ILD in the Euro Top portion of the mattress

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04 Dec 2017 11:53 - 04 Dec 2017 11:54 #2 by Phoenix

Hi Csj0952,

What you're describing generally comes from two different scenarios. One where the mattress is too soft or unsupportive and you're propping up your low back which allowed to sink in too deeply. The second is where your hips don't sink in quite enough or the product is too firm on top and your pelvis can tilt slightly forward, and these both result in too much sway or the area of your lower thoracic / upper lumbar region not being supported enough. This second scenario seems to be what you are describing.

Both the plush and the Eurotop add 1" of softer poly in the uppermost layer (all quilted), and this would be the most noticeable in your surface contouring. The slight change in the deeper comfort layer wouldn't be as noticeable, but the first comfort layer not being included in the quilt would also allow for a bit more conformation. The Eurotop adding the extra deeper 2" of firmer polyfoam wouldn't make as much of a difference in the surface comfort of the mattress, but would probably make more of an appearance in the future years with extra plushness as the product wore.

Hopefully you are able to test out these alternate configurations in a showroom before making a final decision.

Phoenix


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Last Edit: 04 Dec 2017 11:54 by Phoenix.

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31 Dec 2017 11:25 - 31 Dec 2017 11:27 #3 by Csj0952

So I didn't have much of a choice. Jamestown mattress has a 60 day comfort guarantee where they will rebuild the bed replacing firmer foams with softer foams in the comfort layer. I asked them to make the bed more plush which they did. I've been on the new bed for a week and still I'm struggling to have my hips sink in enough. If I put a couple towels under my stomach it gets alittle better but I still wake up with back discomfort and have to change throughout the night to sleeping on my back or side where then I wake up with discomfort in other areas.

What would be your next recommendation at this point?
1) Should I try a mattress topper?
2) Should I chalk this bed up as a loss and try another brand if so would you recommend something to try online (that's not latex)? I tried sleep ez and i couldn't find a configuration that made my back happy. I was formerly on a sealy mattress dunlop latex beachside and slept well on it but I was trying to steer away from them due to inferior foams they use.
3) try an online foam mattress like casper or tuft and needle with a good return policy?

I'm really disappointed in myself at this point because I can't seem to figure out how to test a bed effectively in store and have a good night's sleep. I wish there was a way to test more effectively in the show room. What feels good to me in the showroom ends up being a nightmare the next morning. It's really noticeable how lack of a good night's sleep can affect your entire day so I'm willing to keep putting financials, time and effort into ensuring I somehow figure this out.


Thanks for all your help.


Chris
155lbs athletic
5'6

Last Edit: 31 Dec 2017 11:27 by Csj0952.

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02 Jan 2018 16:57 #4 by Phoenix

Hi Csj0952.

So I didn't have much of a choice. Jamestown mattress has a 60 day comfort guarantee where they will rebuild the bed replacing firmer foams with softer foams in the comfort layer. I asked them to make the bed more plush which they did. I've been on the new bed for a week and still I'm struggling to have my hips sink in enough. If I put a couple towels under my stomach it gets a little better but I still wake up with back discomfort and have to change throughout the night to sleeping on my back or side where then I wake up with discomfort in other areas


I am sorry that the new configuration suggested by Jamestown is still not working for you. As I am not familiar with their product I cannot pinpoint what the exact cause of your misalignment might be but one other factor as your experience shows is that High density polyurethane foam, is not very adaptive to body shape when it’s over 30 IFD. Lower back pain especially for prone sleepers is typically associated with improper spinal alignment

The alignment issue with the low back can be from two sources, both which can be “cured” by propping up with the towels. The first is too soft, where there is a swayback. The second would be too firm, allowing the lumbar region to effectively be “unsupported” and dropping down a bit, causing low back issues. It isn’t possible to determine this via photos or a forum, but based upon your old mattress and what you’ve described, probably have some slightly thicker/softer uppermost comfort layers could be assistive. Perhaps trying a plush topper with a good return policy would be a viable alternative.

. What would be your next recommendation at this point?


As Jamestown Mattress is not one of our Trusted Members we are not in a position to provide much input on the quality or craftsmanship or how further changes may impact your sleeping.
I am not very sure which one of the of the 2 configuration options you mentioned you ended up with, note that the EuroTop design has over 5” of foam on top of the coil system. Both have an additional 1.0” of 20 IFD foam that will help, but it may not be sufficient to address your body shape in combination with your stomach sleeping position. I understand that you have run out of time but while you still have some options I still believe that you should consult with Jamestown to see how they can make this system work to meet your needs.

What feels good to me in the showroom ends up being a nightmare the next morning? It's really noticeable how lack of a good night's sleep can affect your entire day so I'm willing to keep putting financials, time and effort into ensuring I somehow figure this out.


Sleep definitely has a dramatic impact upon health. Everyone’s level of flexibility and tolerance are different, and sleeping prone is the position generally with the largest chance for pain issues. As all of the foams in the product you tired are firmer, the slightly softer/thicker comfort layer toper option may be worth considering, as you mentioned.

Phoenix


Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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09 Jan 2018 21:58 - 11 Jan 2018 13:14 #5 by Csj0952

Jamestown won't help me anymore it feels like. They want nothing to do with me. They said they can't change the bed to make it softer or I'll feel the springs. I emailed the contact to ask what ILD i'm on now but I haven't gotten a response yet so I'm not even sure where to go from here. I'm not sure I should bother with a medium latex topper because it would affect the whole sleep system as a whole. I'm tempted to scrap the mattress, chalk it up to a loss and try a pocket coil/latex combo online such as
www.mattresses.net/quulhypocola.html
lumasleep.com/collections/mattresses/pro...ariant=5315799121958
www.flexuscomfort.com/Quadra-Flex.html

The trick is trying to figure out if the pocket coils will be too strong for me being 150lbs and they won't "activate" to support me. Ideally I find something that has softer coils at the bottom of the mattress where my thighs and knees would be and stronger near my lumbar back. I feel like I shouldn't need much support and I should be able to sleep on an all latex mattress with a dunlop core being only 150lb athletic male but I can't seem to figure out why I wasn't able to with sleepez. I don't get how I need a mattress to let my thighs and legs kinda sink into the mattress but have it prop up my pelvis without letting it sink in too much. It feels like an impossible task. Super frustrating here.

Have you heard of that quadra flex before Phoenix? I'm wondering if there are any other brands who offer stronger coils near the lumbar but weaker ones elsewhere as the picture suggests www.flexuscomfort.com/Quadra-Flex.html

I'm also flying to Boston at the end of the month for business so I'm tempted to stay and extra day and try and find some mattress stores that sell online to try out there based on your recommendations in your trusted mattress sellers. But then again, I feel like I can't adequately test out a mattress anymore in the store because my back hasn't slept on a good mattress in over 7 months and is pissed off at me every time I lay down on anything. It just feels good to stand up or sit up.

Last Edit: 11 Jan 2018 13:14 by Csj0952.

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12 Jan 2018 23:41 - 12 Jan 2018 23:43 #6 by Phoenix

H Csj0952i.

Jamestown won't help me anymore it feels like. They want nothing to do with me. They said they can't change the bed to make it softer or I'll feel the springs. I emailed the contact to ask what ILD i'm on now but I haven't gotten a response yet so I'm not even sure where to go from here.


I am sorry to hear that you ran out of options regarding Jamestown mattress, but I would not jump to conclusions that they did not want to have anything to do with you. From what you describe it looks more like they did their best to find something that would be suitable for you and that you are limited by what this system has to offer. When you purchase a mattress there are many factors involved and even with all good intentions nobody can guarantee that a mattress will work for you with all the many variables involved that are unique to each person and only way to know for certain whether a mattress will be a good "match" for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal Preferences) is your own experience.

I'm not sure I should bother with a medium latex topper because it would affect the whole sleep system as a whole


There would be no harm with trying a topper in combination with the mattress and I would not worry about “changing the system” if you found just the right topper/mattress combination to offer the comfort you need. Adding a topper as a way of increasing the plushness of a system is a popular ay of fixing a mattress If you decide to go this way there is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success.

Because of the uncertainty involved with purchasing a topper where you can't test the combination in person ... a good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk of an online topper purchase so I would also make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase to exchange or return the topper and any costs involved just in case a topper you choose also doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for.

I'm tempted to scrap the mattress, chalk it up to a loss and try a pocket coil/latex combo online such as
www.mattresses.net/quulhypocola.html
LumaSleep
www.flexuscomfort.com/Quadra-Flex.html


Starting from scratch and looking for another system may be an option you may decide to pursue, but I would advise to first have a detailed conversation with any of the companies you are considering. As you may be aware, the companies you are mentioning are Trusted Members of this site, which means that I think very highly of them in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. All of their mattresses use high quality materials and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in any of them so they would certainly make a great quality/value choice for the inner spring and latex combinations you are considering which may contour better around your body than the Jamestown system you tried and offer the comfort you need.

Have you heard of that quadra flex before Phoenix? I'm wondering if there are any other brands who offer stronger coils near the lumbar but weaker ones elsewhere as the picture suggests www.flexuscomfort.com/Quadra-Flex.html


The Quadra flex is QuadCoil unit from Texas Pocket Springs, which is their own patented manufacturing process . The springs are arranged in quads, but as far as zoned pocketed spring units there are quite a few different ones (3 and 5 zones most commonly found) from various manufacturers but I do not provide such listings because of the difficulty in maintaining them in a retail landscape that is constantly changing,

Generally speaking zoning may further complicate your mattress selection, so I would certainly have a detailed conversation of any of our trusted members that you are considering to see if their zoning is something that might be right for your situation.

I think the extra day you would spend in Boston is well spent as nothing can replace your personal experience and the guidance of a manufacturer/retailer that has your best interests at heart.
There are few of our Trusted Members in the Boston-area who might offer some better options for you to sample they are also a site member here, and are very knowledgeable about latex/spring system and are only half an hour away from Boston.
At a quick glance here are few options from site members that you may wish to consider:

Gardner Mattress ] with 4 showrooms (Agawam, Springfield, Northampton, Greenfield, MA) they carry all mattress types and can help you customize your mattress to meet your specific needs.
Yankee Mattress Factory 3 locations (MA Salem / Woburn / Newton) and their Black Collection has a latex spring options. LumaSleep (Online only) carries customizable latex hybrid options.

I know this is not the simple answer, but I’ve tried my best to “drill down” and makes things as simple as possible to help guide you through this process.

Phoenix


Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum
Last Edit: 12 Jan 2018 23:43 by Phoenix.

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