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normal Zenhaven Latex Mattress

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29 Jan 2018 15:30 #11 by boston_ma

Phoenix, thank you so much for your extremely thoughtful response! Based on your feedback, I have decided to give Sleep on Latex a try. While I still think Zenhaven would be a very good option, it doesn't seem like it's necessarily higher-quality, more durable, or more likely to be a good fit for my needs than Sleep on Latex. Also, based on my research, Sleep on Latex seems like a company that I would feel very good about supporting (and this was reinforced by your comments). I'll report back about my experience once I've tried the SOL mattress for a while.

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30 Jan 2018 00:26 #12 by Phoenix

Hi boston_ma.

Thanks for your appreciative comments. :)

I am glad to see that you are doing your due diligence and base your decision on more in-depth research. Just make sure to double-check that whatever end up choosing you have the product placed on a flat firm surface

Good luck and I look forward to your future updates.

Phoenix


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11 Apr 2018 19:13 #13 by mkozlows

Re the flat surface, I want to add here a word of warning about Zenhaven's foundation.

I bought a Zenhaven mattress. It's on the soft side, as mattresses go (I quickly flipped it to the "firm" side, which is still pretty soft), but the bigger problem I had is that within 2-3 months, it was sagging. Like, you had to roll uphill to get to the middle of the bed, sleeping in a hammock type sagging. I was appalled, because latex really really really shouldn't do that. (I mean, nothing should do that so quickly, but especially not latex.)

Fortunately, their customer service is great and they have a 120-day return policy, so that's all good. But as I was taking the mattress off the bed to prepare for the pickup tomorrow, I took a look at the foundation (which I bought from them with the mattress):



I was appalled enough at that to measure. Those are 1.5" slats with EIGHT INCHES of gap between them. (For comparison, I measured my other foundations: The Sleep-EZ one is 2.5" slats with 2.5" gaps; the Savvy Rest one is 5" slats with 2.5" gaps.)

The fabric on top is relatively thick, so it seems like they're trying to use the tension in the fabric as the primary support for the mattress, but... no surprise, that didn't hold up well, and easily was pushed into the gaps.

I honestly think this terrible foundation is responsible for 90% of the problems I had with the mattress -- the "rolling uphill to the center" feeling makes sense now (it's a king with a split foundation, so the center of the bed was actually properly supported), as does the sagging. Setting the mattress on the floor, it feels much better than it did on that foundation.

I still think the mattress was softer than I wanted, but there's a real chance that if I had put it onto a better foundation, I would have ended up being satisfied with it. I'm sort of shocked that Zenhaven would ship a foundation like this that is almost guaranteed to make their product perform poorly. If you buy a Zenhaven mattress, I strongly recommend getting your foundation somewhere else.

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13 Apr 2018 09:51 #14 by Phoenix

Hi mkozlows.

I was appalled enough at that to measure. Those are 1.5" slats with EIGHT INCHES of gap between them. (For comparison, I measured my other foundations: The Sleep-EZ one is 2.5" slats with 2.5" gaps; the Savvy Rest one is 5" slats with 2.5" gaps.)


Clearly, the picture tells us something is amiss. In looking at the Zenhaven specs on their website, www.zenhaven.com/mattress-specs , the description of the foundation does not provide any information about the contents. They describe the foundation as an - 8.75” Profile or 4.75” Low Profile Waterfall Pedestal Foundation. There is no additional explanation or definition of a “pedestal” foundation. However, this term has been used to describe a mattress foundation that is made of a fabric covered wire grid stapled to a wood frame base. The more common term is a “semi-flex” foundation, which is a standard product of most mattress manufacturers. Zenhaven’s mattress is contract manufactured by 20+ different mattress companies across the US. The same applies to the foundation. It looks, by the appearance in the picture you provided, that the foundation may be upside down, as semi-flex foundations have a wood frame bottom and cloth bottom cover that would resemble the surface in your picture. I suggest you send the picture to Zenhaven and ask them to explain it to you. It is very unlikely that the picture is Zenhaven’s “normal” foundation. It is also very likely that the surface has contributed to the problem you have been having with the mattress.

Phoenix


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13 Apr 2018 11:40 - 13 Apr 2018 11:48 #15 by Manimal

Sorry to interject but I've actually spoken with a manager at Zenhaven about this in the past... agree with Phoenix and my first thought as well was that it may be upside down because their foundation is supposed to be completely flat with a thin layer of foam on top of some cardboard paneling (underneath the non-slip cover of course). The picture seems to show what the bottom side of such a foundation would look like. The mattress may feel completely different on the floor or a solid foundation so the situation is unfortunate, assuming the return is now completed.

Last Edit: 13 Apr 2018 11:48 by Manimal.

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14 Apr 2018 07:43 #16 by MattressToGo

mkozlows,

This is a "standard" wood foundation, more commonly used in the "traditional innerspring" part of the industry. It isn't upside down (the bottom wouldn't look like this), and many companies are now simply placing posture pads and the like over the wood top deck of slats instead of cardboard to eliminate noise and improve breathability. Saatva (Zenhaven) has different licensees around the country producing their products, and it appears that in the case of this licensee they are shipping a foundation using interior construction which they also probably use for other SKUs coming out of their factory. Every mattress brand sets their own parameters for what is and isn't appropriate for foundation support and construction under their mattresses, and I can't speak for the minimum specifications that Saatva arranges for production of said foundations with their licensees. However, I would agree with many of the comments here that closer slat spacing (often prescribed around 3" or less between slats) would be much more appropriate for heavier items such as latex and many memory foam and heavier hybrid mattresses using little to no foam as a base layer.

It's too bad you still don't have the mattress and could test it on the floor to see if this indeed was the issue with your comfort preference. Most with whom I've spoken tend to regard this mattress as a bit of a "firmer" item (of course there are large personal preferences involved in comfort choices), so your comments of it being too soft, along with the sag and higher in the center issue, would seem to bolster your assumption about the foundations. But that's only speculative without me being in front of the product and your frame support network to provide a more detailed evaluation.

Good luck on your next purchase!


Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
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14 Apr 2018 08:45 #17 by mkozlows

Yeah, it's all gone, so I can't check to be sure, but when I took them off the bed, I did turn them upside down, and nothing about seeing them that way made me think that they'd been put on the wrong way. Going from memory, the other side was a thin black fabric (the kind you see on the underside of furniture) and was gappier, if anything. I'm pretty sure I would have noticed if there had been a solid bed of slats on that side.

I did briefly lie on the mattress on the floor, and there wasn't any sagging, so I do think the foundation was the cause of that. But even without the foundation, it really is a soft mattress -- I've read the "regarded as firmer" comments on here before, and I wonder what the comparison was.

Because I know that numbers aren't everything, but in this case they feel about right to me: The soft side had a 1.5" layer rated for 14-20 ILD, and then underneath that a 3" layer rated for 25-30. The firm side had a top layer rated at 20-25 ILD, and then a support layer underneath of 30-35. And all of those are Talalay.

I ultimately replaced this with a Sleep-EZ mattress (which I'm happy with so far, we'll see how it goes after longer use). If you look at the latex that Sleep-EZ uses, their soft is an 18-20 ILD and medium is 30-32. So three of those layers on the Zenhaven are all softer than Sleep-EZ's medium. If I tried to replicate the Zenhaven, I couldn't get that close, but I'd end up with a soft/medium/soft all-Talalay setup, probably, and suspect that'd emulate the feel pretty well.

The softness isn't really a complaint as such -- I think that level of softness is going to be good for a lot of people (and some people will want even softer) -- but I definitely think that by the standards of all-latex mattresses, it's not anything you'd call firm.

(My old latex bed, a queen that's now in the guest bedroom, is a Savvy Rest, and that one I would 100% call "firmer." It's all Dunlop, and even though I have it layered as soft/soft/medium, it rates 22-30 as "soft" and 31-39 as "medium", and feels firmer than the numbers, probably due to the Dunlop.)

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14 Apr 2018 09:37 #18 by MattressToGo

Yeah, it's all gone, so I can't check to be sure, but when I took them off the bed, I did turn them upside down, and nothing about seeing them that way made me think that they'd been put on the wrong way.


My response regarding that was to another poster on the forum who suggested they might have been made upside down. Sorry for the confusion.

Going from memory, the other side was a thin black fabric (the kind you see on the underside of furniture) and was gappier, if anything. I'm pretty sure I would have noticed if there had been a solid bed of slats on that side.


Yes, that would be correct for the type of foundation provided. The black dust cover would conceal a head to toe beam, and perhaps two small side brace beams.

I did briefly lie on the mattress on the floor, and there wasn't any sagging, so I do think the foundation was the cause of that.


In your situation, this was most likely a culprit. It's unclear if this is the same foundation shipped from all of the different licensees throughout the country.

But even without the foundation, it really is a soft mattress -- I've read the "regarded as firmer" comments on here before, and I wonder what the comparison was.


It really is subjective and depends upon frame of reference, previous style of mattress being used, familiarity with different latex mattress configurations, somatotype, mass, sensitivity, and so on. Personally I find this product to be a bit "firmer" and desire more comfort materials, the amount of which are limited a bit by the two-sided design. It's not to say that there is anything at all wrong with the quality of the latex used (there isn't) - it just points out the huge individual variation in perception of comfort.

I'm glad you like your new SleepEZ mattress!


Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
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15 Apr 2018 13:37 #19 by Phoenix

Hi Jeff.

Thanks for jumping in… I greatly appreciate it! :)

Your valuable contributions and high level expertise has helped numerous consumer visitors over the years both on TMU and your own Beducation® site and channel (Look forward to Beducation®’s upgraded programs and content….. Good Luck!)

BTW… I love the new Beducation® logo.

Phoenix


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17 Apr 2018 11:03 - 17 Apr 2018 11:04 #20 by Manimal

Hi mkozlows,

I'm glad you were able to check and confirm the foundation construction (and try the mattress on the floor as well)... just waned to rule out any possibility of that being the case like Phoenix mentioned in the initial response. When I spoke with them, Zenhaven swore up and down that all of their foundations were made to spec, with cardboard and a thin layer of foam, regardless of the manufacturer, so not sure what happened in this case.

As Jeff indicated, the underside of those foundations are usually a "black dust cover" often stapled to the bottom. It's too bad that particular licensee/manufacturer shipped a foundation which in my opinion, would be a poor option for virtually any mattress, let alone latex (though it might do the job for a mattress with a stiff polyfoam base layer). Unfortunately, in addition to semi-flex/wire grid foundations, these types of constructions with or without cardboard have been by far the most prevalent in my region, although I did come across one that used both cardboard and a posture/fiber pad (solid and quiet but limited breathability). Hopefully more manufacturers across the country will move towards solid slats spaced closer together so that only a pad is required. This may already be the case as I found a good foundation a couple of years ago (so haven't been looking)... Jeff would know better than me since he works in the industry every day :)

Hope things work out for you!

Manimal

Last Edit: 17 Apr 2018 11:04 by Manimal.

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