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- Torn between two latex mattress Manufacturers (Zenhaven vs Foam Sweet Foam)
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Torn between two latex mattress Manufacturers (Zenhaven vs Foam Sweet Foam)
So, I got my topper today from Zenhaven. There was a hard seam running vertically along one third of the bed, right where you'd actually sleep.
So figuring I have literally nothing to lose at this point besides the last of my patience, I made a tiny hole in the cover and looked to see what was up. They had basically glued two latex remnants together, a twin and a skinny piece. The glue was hard, irregular, and not comfy to lay on.
Their CS guy is nice, but I am at my wits' end with these guys. Mattress comfort is subjective but you know what's not? Production values. I have a topper (granted, it was free) that's two bits glued together, and a queen mattress that doesn't seem properly sized for the box spring IT CAME WITH. Measuring. Not that hard, people.
I don't have much to compare it to, but so far, this is not a $2,000-worthy experience. I've emailed them and asked if they just throw the beds in the landfill or donate them if you return them. I'd be interested to see what a supposedly "green" company does with returns. The thought of buying this bed for semi-ethical motivations (I guess I also selfishly want sleep?) only to toss it as waste is sickening.
And I have to add...their CS guy told me on the phone it was a $500-600 dollar topper, so I was expecting something pretty big. It's about a 1" topper, guys. This appears to retail for about $200 without the cover, so throw in a little extra for that, but I have to roll my eyes on that one, Zenhaven. Even if it didn't have the glue seam.
And a further update from the company as they called today—they said the latex was glued together because it's only made in 62" width sheets...but my bed IS about 56"...they thought they were talking to king customer, not a queen. After revealing that, they did not offer to send a properly made topper.
When I said the topper only made it comfortable for one person with the seam, they asked if I had two people in the bed. I'm currently single so laughed and said no, but hope to in the next 10 years of mattress life! But jeez, a queen should accommodate a queen's worth of sleeping.
They then revealed the topper is just a temporary fix while the bed breaks in. Huh. I'm curious how all this jibes with "best practices" in the industry. Cheers dears.
Still have the Zenhaven, now at 45 days. It's a meh. I sleep fine enough and I don't wake up with pain that I associate with the bed (with chronic pain, hard to tell) but it's not comfortable. It's just too much pressure under my hip and shoulder and not enough support under my waist. It's not terrible, but it's not "my" bed, and doesn't feel worth the almost 2k price tag.
It sounds like it's time to return it (since it's after the 30 day trial period), and look at other softer mattresses! If you like the benefit of Latex being all natural and chemical free then take a look at the Trusted Members for Mattress Underground (found here: www.themattressunderground.com/list-all/latex-all-latex.html ). They have knowledgeable experts who can work through your comfort issues with you if you just give them a call. Some of them can get you a new comfortable mattress within the week! Looking at your weight, it seems like you need a much softer ILD than the Zenhaven-- so ask about softer latex comfort layers. Another plus is that many of these Trusted Member companies have mattresses that will suit you for much less money than the Zenhaven.
Hope this helps, as I'm sure this is a miserable experience. Let an expert try and help you!
"It's just too much pressure under my hip and shoulder and not enough support under my waist. It's not terrible, but it's not "my" bed, and doesn't feel worth the almost 2k price tag."
That's a good description of what I'm experiencing with the "Firm" side of the Zenhaven, when I'm on my side. When I'm on my back or stomach, it feels better than that to me. I'm still in the trial window and am waiting for a topper. I think the issue may be that the 1.5" "comfort" layer just isn't thick enough for a ~200 lb. sleeper like me. My hips/shoulders seem to be bottoming out into the firm "support" layer.
I received the Zenhaven "Comfort Adjusting Topper" yesterday and slept on it last night. For me, it's an improvement. It seems to do the job of relieving pressure on my hips/shoulders. They sent it out for no charge (with free shipping). I think their customer service is quite good.
I did not notice a glue seam (but didn't really go looking for one either). The cover is a polyester/cotton blend, not the "organic cotton" quilted to wool that seems to comprise the mattress cover. A thicker cover might change the topper's feel. I replaced a thick bamboo mattress cover with a very thin SafeRest protector, which seems to be a good choice for this mattress/topper combination, since it keeps me closer to the latex. There may be a trade-off if the poly/cotton cover and protector reduces breathability slightly. I do not know the ILD firmness or the exact thickness of the latex inside the topper.
Knowing what I now do about what seems to be working for me in a latex mattress, I think I'd prefer a zip-open cover so I could rearrange the internal layers. It seems a little odd to have (when the firmer side is up) a soft comfort layer or the bottom, then a medium support core, then a firmer support core. I might have been able to get the effect of the topper by moving that soft 1.5" comfort layer up from the bottom. And I think I might benefit, long term, from a firm/xfirm 3" support core on the bottom. With the flippable Zenhaven, you do trade off some flexibility for convenience. For many first-time latex buyers, their flippable package probably makes sense (but if you know exactly what you need up front, it might be better to tailor it from the bottom up to those needs).
Thanks for taking the time to provide an update and share your experience with Zenhaven ... I appreciate it . Even though the mattress by itself does not meet your specific comfort/support needs I am glad that Zen was so responsive and that they sent you their comfort adjusting topper and that the mattress/topper combo is working out for you. While adding the topper will certainly help I’d keep in mind that the thinner the topper the more you’ll feel the properties of the layers below it and that the 1” added to the comfort may still not be thick enough to give all pressure relief needed when sleeping on your side, A few more nights of sleepoing on the mattress/topper combo will certanly tell more than all the "theory at a distance" in the world.
Knowing what I now do about what seems to be working for me in a latex mattress, I think I'd prefer a zip-open cover so I could rearrange the internal layers. It seems a little odd to have (when the firmer side is up) a soft comfort layer or the bottom, then a medium support core, then a firmer support core.
As you say … “if you know exactly what you need up front” a closed-up mattress delivered as a finished product makes sense. On the other hand, the largest advantage to a component-style system is the ability to customize, replace, and rearrange layers over time to create different comforts or to replace worn out the uppermost layers (which undergo the most mechanical stress and are usually the softest layer within a system). There is more about the pros and cons of a "finished mattresses" that generally has glued layers vs a component style mattresses with unglued layers and a zip cover in post #15 here and post #2 here
I'm looking forward to any additional updates you might have the chance to share.
I measured the topper with calipers; the latex inside appears to be 1.5" thick (not 1"). 3" seems to be a standard thickness for latex comfort layers. After 5 nights it feels comfortable in all positions.
This may not be the absolute best mattress I could possibly get, for more money and the inconvenience of switching. The question is whether very good isn't good enough. Based on various layer configuration tools and guidelines (including the Flobeds calculator), I'm a little concerned that for my BMI (5'11", 200 lbs., 27.9), this mattress is a bit soft in the lower support layer (N3, 25-29 ILD). If my concern is justified, maybe I could address it most cost-effectively (and conveniently) by ordering an inch or two of very firm Dunlop for just over the bed slats.
What I now have (top to bottom) is:
1.5" soft Talalay (ILD unknown)
1.5" Zoned N2 Talalay (20-25 ILD)
3" N4 Talalay (30-34 ILD)
3" N3 Talalay (25-29 ILD)
1.5" Zoned N1 Talalay (14-19 ILD)
Thanks for measuring the thickness of the free 1.5" latex topper you received. Good to know! This certainly adds a bit more depth and contours better around your body and helps with the pressure relief that you need. I am not sure now if Zen changes toper specs from time to time as other members of our forum have mentioned receiving different topper thicknesses. Good to keep an eye on!
This may not be the absolute best mattress I could possibly get, for more money and the inconvenience of switching. The question is whether very good isn't good enough.
You are quite right that the inconvenience and the time involved in researching and “switching” mattresses (which may or may not be better than the previous one) should always be “questioned” as part of your personal value equation and what is most important to you. Most of the people that come to our forum wrestled with a similar situation …. the choice between something that seems good enough and something that may be better. I wish there was a “formula” that can be used to assess it, but unfortunately, no one else but you can answer this with certainty as there are too many variables, needs, and personal preferences involved.
I'm a little concerned that for my BMI (5'11", 200 lbs., 27.9), this mattress is a bit soft in the lower support layer (N3, 25-29 ILD).
With a two-sided design, the softer layers located lower/deeper within the mattress work together with the layers above for a certain feel and support/comfort range. If durability is of concern, I'd keep in mind that these “deeper” layers compress uniformly and are not under the same mechanical stress that the uppermost layers go through and they would be the last layers in a mattress to break down over time. Additionally, the durability of the latex in the comfort layers would not be of concern at your current BMI. The only concerns I'd have would be only for a plush latex comfort layer for a person with a 30+ BMI index which would be the threshold where you would start to see some evidence of breakdown. If suitability is of concern to you then I'd keep in mind that the softer layers situated much deeper within the mattress (or at the bottom) are the least noticeable on the sleeping surface and the foams beneath the N4 will only very slightly soften up the deep support, If you found the layering arrangement is a good "match" for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP you should be OK at your BMI and there should be no cause for concern for either support or durability.
Other than this It is not possible to tell if this layering combination is a perfect match for you as you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to assess this, predict, or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see post #2 here ).
I hope this clarifies things and helps with your final decision