TOPIC:

Hello

After suffering through the typical bs and intentional misdirection of the mainstream mattress industry, I stumbled across this site and finally got some good advice on what to look for and how to decide on a quality mattress, so I appreciate all the information found throughout the site.
We have narrowed our search down to three mattresses and all seem fine, and within the quality/durability criteria - I think! My main focus for this post is on durability, and secondarily, on perceived value of the mattress based on materials and quality when compared against cost ie, what the "better value"? All are in acceptable price ranges and all felt comfortable after spending time laying on them.
They all seem to be within acceptable standards when comparing to the Durability Guidelines on this site. And that is what I would like help with - are these as quality/potentially durable as I think they are? If someone could offer feedback on these three, and in particular, pick out the weakest link on each model (even if within acceptable parameters) so I know I am not overlooking something I thought was acceptable, but isn't.

The specs listed below come from the Denver Mattress Company's website and are for a Queen size mattress. We're looking to buy a King, but since all three spec sheets are for a queen size, it should translate to be a pretty apples to apples comparison for the king size as well. My BMI is about 23, and I think hers is about 25 to 27 at highest (she won't say)

Here are the specs -

A). Madison Luxury Firm Mattress - $950
Quilt Layers:
Double Knit Ticking
1 1/2" of 1.8lb Density Convoluted EF Foam
1" EF Foam
Natural Rayon Fire Barrier
Comfort Layers:
2 1/2" of 1.8lb Density Convoluted EF Foam
1 Flex Net Insulator
Support System:
Coil Density: 744* Foam Encased,
Individually Wrapped Coils
14.5 Gauge Tempered Steel




B ). Doctor's Choice® Elite Firm Mattress - $1400
Quilt layers:
Luxurious Knit Ticking
1" Anti-Microbial Super Soft EF Foam
1/2" Anti-Microbial 1.8lb High Density EF Foam
Inherent Rayon Fire Barrier
Comfort Layers:
1" 4lb Gel/Visco Memory Foam
1" 2lb High Density Luxury Firm EF Foam
1 Flex Net Insulator
Support System:
The B.O.S.S.® (Balanced Orthopedic Sleep System)
Coil Density: 750 Alternating Checkerboard
Individually Wrapped Coils
14.5 Gauge Tempered Steel



C). Richmond® Luxury Firm Mattress - $1900
Quilt Layers:
Engineered Stretch Knit Ticking
Comfort Layers:
3" 2.5lb Serene™ Comfort Foam
1 Flex Net Insulator
Support System:
The B.O.S.S.® (Balanced Orthopedic Sleep System)
Coil Density: 744* Foam Encased Coils
14.5 Gauge Tempered Steel
4" 1.8lb Foam Base with Engineered Articulating Cuts

(from online google search) The Boss system (Balanced Orthopaedic Spring System) provides 7 zone support, helps assist in body alignment as you sleep and minimises partner disturbance by reducing sideways movement giving you a more restful night's sleep.



Specific questions I have are -

1). On the Doctors Choice Elite Firm, is there a problem with the 1" Anti-Microbial Super Soft EF Foam in the quilt layer? They don't state the density here. It's only 1", so it seems to be not a big deal, but I also believe I've read that Eggshell Foam is not a good material for durability? Is EF foam a lower grade foam to be worried about?


2) The Madison Luxury Firm mattress uses 1" EF foam in its comfort layer, so pretty much the same questions -any problem with this type of foam here, in this thickness?


3) On the Richmond Luxury Firm, they use 3" of 2.5lb Serene Comfort foam in the comfort layer. Is there a problem with it being only 2.5lb and not 4 or 5lb? Its 3" thick, and its the only material used in that layer, so it's kind of "all in" with just that material, so I want to be confident that it should perform and hold up well. Also, is "Serene" comfort foam anything special(or bad)? I see it has a trademark symbol after it, so I imagine it is the same as any other 2.5lb foam, or is there anything different about it?


4) On the Richmond® Luxury Firm Mattress, what are "Engineered Articulating Cuts"? for the foam in the support system? Any good points/bad points to that?


5) Is 14.5 gauge steel for the coil springs a fairly sturdy gauge, or what is typically used for coil springs? Will they likely be durable and what should I anticipate for effective lifespan?


Long post, and lots of questions, so thanks for bearing with me! Any feedback/input on this would be appreciated, we're looking forward to getting off the foam pad on our floor as soon as possible!

Hi PBR,
Thanks for posting your question on The Mattress Underground site. I will try and address your questions with general knowledge of the industry; I am not completely familiar with all that Denver Mattress uses in their beds.

1). On the Doctors Choice Elite Firm, is there a problem with the 1" Anti-Microbial Super Soft EF Foam in the quilt layer? They don't state the density here. It's only 1", so it seems to be not a big deal, but I also believe I've read that Eggshell Foam is not a good material for durability? Is EF foam a lower grade foam to be worried about?

They say their top panel is made up using the following:

Quilt Layers:
Double Knit Ticking
1 1/2" of 1.8lb Density Convoluted EF Foam
1" EF Foam
Natural Rayon Fire Barrier

Their 1 1/2" of 1.8 Density quilt foam is a good product....right up until they convolute it. That takes away from the integrity and the quality. You will see that as you go up in price with the three models you have asked about, they no longer contain convoluted foam.
EF Foam is Earth Friendly foam from Denver Mattress. That means that their foam manufacturer use a natural oil that displaces a portion of the Polyol in the formulation. It plays to their marketing more than their quality. They didn't tell us the firmness of this foam.
The quilt pattern is a large continuous pattern that lends itself to firmer mattresses.

Their Comfort layers State:
Comfort Layers:

2 1/2" of 1.8lb Density Convoluted EF Foam

Again they don't tell us the firmness of the foam and they have convoluted what is there, challenging the long term integrity of the foam.
The Marshall Coil support springs have the 14.5 gauge wires which are a medium firm individual pocketed coil spring.

The next mattress Uses their B.O.S.S.® (Balanced Orthopedic Sleep System) Spring; and I have to say there is not a lot of material online about this spring. We do know it is a pocketed coil because the springs are individually wrapped, and this will be similar in feel to the Madison due to the gauge of wire used. The difference is the "Checkerboard" configuration of the springs. Does that mean they are alternating? I'm not really sure. I think a call to Denver Mattress will provide the needed explanation.
The quilt layers:
Quilt layers:

Luxurious Knit Ticking
1" Anti-Microbial Super Soft EF Foam
1/2" Anti-Microbial 1.8lb High Density EF Foam
Inherent Rayon Fire Barrier

The Super Soft foam will be comfortable, but they don't tell the density. This layering seems okay for a firm mattress.
Comfort Layers:

1" 4lb Gel/Visco Memory Foam
1" 2lb High Density Luxury Firm EF Foam

Having 1" of the 4 lb Gel and 2 pound firm EF foam seems good for this bed. The Gel will add softness, and if they are using over a 50 IFD on the EF foam, it will provide good support, however they don't tell us that.
You notice that there is no convoluted foam in this mattress; in fact, there is not a lot of foam at all in this mattress.

The final mattress you mention is the Richmond - also the most expensive.
Comfort Layers:
3" 2.5lb Serene ™ Comfort Foam

This is a patented foam from Carpenter. I don't have direct experience with this foam, but 3" of any type of memory foam is too thick in my opinion.
They put this on top of their B.O.S.S.® (Balanced Orthopedic Sleep System) Spring and then put it all on 4" of 1.8 pound base foam with some sort of strategic cut outs for air flow. Again, not a lot online showing this configuration, but something a phone call or visit to Denver Mattress can explain.

Finally, you say

(from online google search) The Boss system (Balanced Orthopaedic Spring System) provides 7 zone support, helps assist in body alignment as you sleep and minimises partner disturbance by reducing sideways movement giving you a more restful night's sleep.

However, that is the definition of the Australian company Sleepyhead. They call their BOSS spring system - Balanced Orthopaedic Spring System
and Denver Mattress says, BALANCED ORTHOPEDIC SLEEP SYSTEM.
The Sleepyhead spring is an offset coil system, and Denver Mattress says theirs is an individually wrapped Marshall Coil spring. So I am not confident these are the same springs.

I hope this helps you when reviewing the three mattresses. The best thing is to actually go into a showroom and let the RSA fit you to a bed that you find comfortable and supportive. If you are not near a Denver Mattress showroom, then a conversation over the phone and they can hopefully send you pictures of their spring system, their Engineered Articulating Cuts and provide IFD's for the foam they are using.
Sincerely,
Debbie Lewis

Hello


I wanted to wait until I heard back from Denver Mattress with a reply to various questions I asked them. While the gal was friendly and helpful over the phone, there were a few questions she didn't have answers to and she was "going to email someone and get back to me". Well, after 3 weeks of no answer, I have given up on them, mostly because it seems pretty apparent after further review that none of these mattresses are built very durably, so I am back to square one. But I did want to reply and say thank you for your time and response!

Hi PBR,
I understand how agonizing this can be, and now you can see why only a handful of mattress companies are invited to participate on the Mattress Underground website.
You said

All are in acceptable price ranges and all felt comfortable after spending time laying on them.

so it seems as if you were in a Denver Mattress Showroom. Can you go back with your specific questions? Can call the Showroom and find out if there is an area supervisor who can answer your questions? Do you have any mattress factories that sell direct in your area? Companies like mine, Parklane Mattresses, know more because we are the manufacturer and can offer you better information on the specifics. Have you checked out Latex mattresses? This site offers companies that specialize in Latex once you know if that is comfortable for both of you.
Good luck in finding a quality mattress that will give you healthy sleep for many years to come.
Debbie Lewis

I called Denver Mattress help line and asked a ton of questions. Customer service lady was friendly and helpful,answering many, but there were a few questions she didn't have the answers to, so she said she would check with her people and get back to me. I never heard back so either she lost my info or some other glitch, but it doesn't matter. I am not thrilled about the 3 inches of 2.5lb memory foam in the richmond model (which was our top choice) 3 inches seems a bit thick, and its only 2.5 lb. If it were denser, it might not be a concern, but it seems a little iffy. We're back to looking around and trying to make time to check out the remaining local makers.

Hi pbr,

The more time and research you put into your future mattress, the greater chance of success for years of healthy sleep.
Nothing beats an in store fitting for understanding the benefits of the mattress layers.
As a manufacturer, we arm our Sales Associates with the knowledge they need to explain why the Latex layer is on top, or why we have added Gel Memory Foam farther down in the mattress.

Again, I wish you much success, and we are here to help you with questions on the components and mattresses. All of the experts on The Mattress Underground are well versed in the densities and qualities, and can help you decipher the potential confusion.

Debbie Lewis
Parklane Mattresses