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normal What is the best latex mattress for me? Dilworth or Sleeping Organic?

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04 Feb 2019 18:39 #1 by johnep

What is the best latex mattress for me? Dilworth or Sleeping Organic
I discovered your website last week and found it extremely helpful in my quest for a new mattress. Mattress shopping is complicated and your website has helped me better understand the many options available. Thank you so much for educating consumers like me. You are providing a great service.

I am in the market for a new queen mattress. My current mattress is a inner springs firm that is about 12 to 15 years old. I have been looking for a foam mattress. Initially I was looking at memory foam, but after some research on your site and other places, I believe latex is a better choice as it seems to have a number of advantages over memory foam. I live in the Charlotte, NC area. Other relevant info is I am 74 years old, 5’8” and 150 pounds, and primarily a slide sleeper. I have mild asthma and acid reflux, but otherwise no major health issues.

There is a local mattress manufacturer, Dilworth Mattress, which manufactures latex and other types of mattresses. I talked with the owner who is the third generation of his family in this business. It seems to have a very good reputation as far as I can tell. I tried some mattresses in his showroom and found this product very comfortable: 10” latex mattress with 3 layers: 1.5” talalay soft (24 ILD), 2” talalay medium (28 ILD), 6” talalay firm ( 36 ILD). The talalay is a blended 60% natural, 40% synthetic, all made in USA. He believes the blend is a better product than natural. He would do natural layers at a higher price. Their price is $1995 for mattress and $2199 for set and $100 delivery and setup. The mattress is zippered and allows the customer to switch layers if they want to.

The owner claims he has been selling this product for many years and most customers get 17 to 20 years from it. I want a product that will serve me well for many years. I common complaint I hear is that mattresses work well initially and then begin to sag or cause back problems in a few years. I want to avoid that which is one reason I am willing to pay more for a mattress.

I saw the Sleeping Organic in Charleston, SC on your website. I called them and they have more options with latex (both talalay and Dunlop). They only use natural latex and claim it is superior to the blended latex. I configured a 10” mattress as follows: 2” talalay soft (19 to 23 ILD), 2” Dunlop medium (26 to 32 ILD) and 6” firm base (36 to 40 ILD). Their talalay is sourced from Sri Lanka and Dunlop from Poly Global but she said it was made in USA. They seem to have all the certifications desired for their latex. Their price is $1596 for the mattress and $1,971 for the set and free shipping (UPS). Their base is expensive at $375 versus $200 for Dilworth. As I understand it, the customer has to insert all the layers into the zippered cover.

Sleeping Organic allows 45 Night $99 Flat Return Fee for Personalized Mattresses and 100 Night $50 Layer Comfort Exchange for Personalized Mattresses. Dilworth has a 30 day comfort guarantee that allows exchange for other mattresses, only paying any difference in price. Sleeping Organic has the edge here.

I would like your thoughts and opinions about these 2 choices and any others you think I should consider. Do you think there is a significant difference in the 2 choices? I like the idea of a natural latex but I am not sure if that is significant or not as each company claims their latex is superior. I am not sure if the flexibility of different latex types is significant or not. I also like the idea of a local company in Charlotte although Charleston is only 3 hours away. My daughter lives in Charleston and I am there often. I could go there and try out their mattresses at their store to get a better idea of the right firmness and actually see the mattresses in person.
Thank you for your help.

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07 Feb 2019 11:11 #2 by Phoenix

Hi johnep,

Welcome to the forum! :)

Thank you for those kind words about our site and you are welcome. As you say, it can get complicated but you seem to be focused on two really good choices. Although Dilworth is a small manufacturer and not a member of our site, Dilworth is known as quality and reputable company by industry insiders. As you already know Sleeping Organic is one of our trusted members , so we can rely on their transparency and quality of materials.

Both choices obviously are using quality materials, Dilworth is clearly using blended Talalay latex from Talalay Global. And Sleeping organic uses organic certified producers. No Talalay is made in Sri Lanka, Talalay is made in USA and the Netherlands only. I think this was just a misunderstanding from the person on the phone. For more info on the differences please see this earlier post about natural latex and blended latex.

Do you think there is a significant difference in the 2 choices? I like the idea of a natural latex but I am not sure if that is significant or not as each company claims their latex is superior. I am not sure if the flexibility of different latex types is significant or not. I also like the idea of a local company in Charlotte although Charleston is only 3 hours away. My daughter lives in Charleston and I am there often. I could go there and try out their mattresses at their store to get a better idea of the right firmness and actually see the mattresses in person.


It is actually to be accurate and tell the difference and how they feel to you without trying them. Two manufacturers can use the exact same latex layers and then use different fabric and different finishing processes and they feel entirely different. It would be well worth your time to visit your daughter and try the particular build from Sleeping Organic. Each sleeper has different needs but you most likely will find a “feel” difference between the two options which may be the most important factor, more important than return cost/timeframe, price and many other variables in your personal value equation when choosing a mattress because "what" to choose in terms of either a mattress or the balance between comfort/pressure relief and support/alignment that may be suitable for a specific person is always up to the only person who can feel what only they can feel on a mattress and is best left to personal testing and their own experiences or more detailed discussions with the more knowledgeable people at the retailers or manufacturers that sell a mattress you are considering. For more information when trying the mattress locally, please read steps 2 and 3 in this post to help you to determine the best pressure relief and support.

Good luck! … you are on the right track.

Phoenix


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09 Feb 2019 07:44 #3 by johnep

Phoenix, thanks so much for your helpful reply. I have continued to research my options and after reviewing vendors on your website, I contacted Arizona Premium and discussed options with Ken. I am interested in his DIY approach. He has provided me quotes based upon information I provided him, notably my testing of several mattresses locally which are as follows:

Naturepedic EOS Trilux, all with 3 layers of 3” natural Dunlop, 10” profile with zippered cotton cover with wool padding. Layers could be swapped and 90 day exchange.
#1, side 1 S-S-F Good
#1, side 2 S-M-F Good
#2, Side 1 XS-S-F Good
#2, Side 2 M-M-F Too firm

OMI Organicpedic Duo, 3 3” inch layers of Dunlop, 10” profile with zippered cotton cover with wool padding. The sales tag says core is “certified organic natural rubber latex” but also says “Also available in 100% natural rubber latex”. It sounds like the product I tested is a blend. 90 day layer exchang.
S-M-F Good

Posh-Lavish, comfort layers were talalay and base was Dunlop. I was told natural but website says it is a blend. Their cover was not padded like others but it was still nice.
Relax model: 2” tal. M, 6” dun. F Too firm
Restore model: 3” tal. S, 6” dun. F Good

Dilworth Mattress
Blue Heaven Firm – 3.5” HD foam and 6” talalay blended. Too firm
Performance – blended talalay – 3layers, ILD = 1.5” 24, 2” 28 and 6” 36 Good feel
I am not sure if the talalay blend was 60/40 or 40/60. Based on your website, it may have been 30/70.

Overall, there was not much difference in the mattresses I rated good. I suppose at my 150 weight and being a side sleeper, I have a greater range of options than some others. The best may have been the Posh-Lavish 3” tal. S and 6” Dunlop firm, although I want to have at least 3 layers and minimum of 9” plus cover. Also need a non wool cover due to allergies.

Ken suggested either 2 3" dunlop firm and a 3" Talalay soft would be good or a 6" firm dunlop with 2" medium Talalay and 2 or 3" soft Talalay. The 3 3” layers felt good and gives flexibility in getting right firmness, but he said that a thicker core was better for durability. Based upon that, he priced a 6/2/2 all natural Dunlop core and Talalay comfort.

Ken is obviously very knowledgeable about mattresses and I think he has provided sound recommendations. But in the spirit of 2 heads are better than one, I would like to ask you a few questions:
1. What are your thoughts about a 3 3” layer configuration?
2. Are 2” comfort layers thick enough to give the necessary performance? I prefer natural which increases the price and the extra thickness will increase it more. Not sure if the added thickness is meaningful relative to the added cost.
3. Based upon my testing of mattresses, are there other configurations to consider?
4. I am not one of those “all organic” type of people, but it seemed to me that if you are going to use a “natural” product, then it should be all “natural” provided the cost was reasonable. Am I missing something with this mode of thinking?

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11 Feb 2019 16:24 #4 by Phoenix

Hi johnep,

Well done with all the trials, and yes Ken from Arizona Premium Mattress (one of our Trusted Members here ) is very knowledgeable with a long history of making latex mattresses and fine-tuning them to match customer needs and preferences.

Ken is obviously very knowledgeable about mattresses and I think he has provided sound recommendations. But in the spirit of 2 heads are better than one, I would like to ask you a few questions:
1. What are your thoughts about a 3 3” layer configuration?
2. Are 2” comfort layers thick enough to give the necessary performance? I prefer natural which increases the price and the extra thickness will increase it more. Not sure if the added thickness is meaningful relative to the added cost.
3. Based upon my testing of mattresses, are there other configurations to consider?
4. I am not one of those “all organic” type of people, but it seemed to me that if you are going to use a “natural” product, then it should be all “natural” provided the cost was reasonable. Am I missing something with this mode of thinking?


There would be little if any practical difference between two 3" support layers and a single 6" support layer if they were all the same type and blend of latex and the same ILD and were inside a tight fitting cover with 3" inches of latex of the same ILD on top of them. Two 3" layers would respond a little more independently and because the elasticity of the top 3" wouldn't be connected and "pulling back" on the bottom 3" when it compresses and "in theory" it may act a little bit softer but in practical and real-life terms most people wouldn't notice any difference in terms of performance or firmness. If a single 6" core with a 3" comfort layer was a good match for you in terms of PPP then there would be little benefit in having multiple 3" layers that were the equivalent ILD. As long as don’t move to something too soft for the bottom 6” you should be ok.

Two-inch layers, in theory, are definitely enough to give proper performance. Different people have different needs and preferences and one is not better than the other as it's all about which one is the best match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).

Regarding other configurations, it would be very tricky for me or anyone else to begin recommending different configurations, it is really about you matching up what is best based on your research, history, and local testing. ... any specific tweaking from TMU cannot be a substitute for this ... we typically make sure that you are heading in the right direction, offer some guidance, and provide any necessary supportive information but generally the best and most accurate recommendations always come from the retailers/manufacturers themselves as they are much more familiar with their materials and own mattress designs than anyone else (including me) and they can use the information you provide them about your body type and sleeping positions, your preferences, your history on different mattresses, and the results of your local testing to make suggestions based on the "averages" of other customers that may be similar to you.

I think your view of not going with “all organic” is quite common and many people tend to place this criterion lower in their personal value equation . It 's also worth mentioning there is no Talalay latex in the world that has organic certification but that does not make it less desirable, and whether in its natural, the blended or synthetic version is one of the best foams used in mattresses. It's important to note that blended is not “bad” by any means and is still a “more natural” product than many others. Most of the blended latex products are 30/70 (sales people just like to say its 70/30) but that is simply not the case with the formulas /manufacturers that have been mentioned. There is also more about organic, natural, green, and "safe" materials in post #2 here and the posts it links to because many people that are looking for "organic" materials are often just looking for materials that they can have confidence are "safe".

Good luck with the fine tunning and I'd be interested to know what your final decision is!

Phoenix


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18 Feb 2019 06:35 #5 by johnep

Thank you for all the great information on this site. It has been great to help me find a good mattress.

I finally decided on a 3 layer 3 inch latex mattress DIY with Arizona Premium Mattress. I chose all natural layers: Talalay soft, Talalay medium and Dunlop firm. This is a good fit for all the mattresses I liked while testing configurations at local stores.

I like this configuration because it gives flexibility in swapping layers to find the best one for me. Also, AZPM offers a 60 day exchange policy that will allow me to change layers in case I need to.

Some of the mattress companies recommended by TMU offered returns within the first 60 days or so. I would have liked that option but it seems I would pay at least $300 to $400 more for it. I tested 12 different latex mattresses in local stores, so I think the risk of finding the mattress unsuitable is rather low.

I have read quite a few comments from people who had back or other physical problems due to their new mattress. I did a good job of testing for comfort in stores but not so good a job in checking for alignment since I did it by myself. I can never remember sleeping on a mattress that caused any problems. Hopefully, this will not be the first one.

I am very interested in buying an adjustable bed but am not ready to do that just yet. That gives me somewhat of a problem. I do not want to buy a foundation for my new mattress since I am hoping to buy an adjustable within the next few months. Many experts say that you need to have a foundation designed for latex beds that has slats, proper spacing, et al. I do not want to spend several hundred dollars on something like that to use only a few months. Conversely, some reputable mattress sites say that box springs can be used. I could use the box springs from my old mattress. I understand there can be issues of breathability and support (new latex too heavy). I do not think the weight should be a problem just for one 150 pound person. I also considered building a simple frame with slats but that quickly gets to more than $100 or more of materials for a throwaway interim solution.

I would appreciate your thoughts about a suitable foundation for an interim period of a few months.

Thanks again for your help.

John

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19 Feb 2019 23:29 - 19 Feb 2019 23:37 #6 by Phoenix

Hi johnep,

You are very welcome, and congratulations on a good quality/value latex mattress from Arizona Premium. :) It is really quite clear that you have done your research and testing, really well done.

I understand what you mean about testing for alignment when you are by yourself...not that easy to do, but given you are fairly light and haven't had many issues, and with your extensive local testing it looks like the three-layer design you chose has very good chances to meet your spinal alignment and support needs.

Regarding the foundation question ... it would be important to check with Arizona Premium to make sure that the support system you plan to use for the interim period wouldn't invalidate the product warranty. From a general point of view, you can place a latex mattress on very different surfaces ...on the floor, plywood, slats, traditional box spring, old box spring... but each time you do this, it will feel different as the foundation itself will add another variable. With this in mind and if Arizona Premium vets your support system to use for a month or so, there should have no problem using your old box spring with this mattress until you are ready to get the adjustable foundation. Many consumers have done this with no issues at all but I'd first make sure to check that the support system is still in good condition and does not sag under the weight of the mattress and people sleeping on it. When you change to a new foundation there will be some "feel difference" which may be very noticeable, may only be slightly noticeable, or it may even feel much better. There’s much more information about the functions of foundations, active slat systems and actual box springs in the  foundation thread here .

There is more information about choosing an adjustable bed in post #3 here  and the main adjustable bed topic that it links to that can help you choose an adjustable bed based on price vs features comparisons and also includes some retailers that you can use as good sources of information about the features of the adjustable beds they carry and as pricing references as well (in(in post #6 in the main adjustable bed topic).

Good luck when you start down the adjustable purchase cycle.

Thank you for the great update.

Phoenix


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Last edit: 19 Feb 2019 23:37 by Phoenix.

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23 Feb 2019 09:52 #7 by johnep

Thanks Phoenix.
Due to GERD, I am looking for an adjustable mattress base that tilts the entire base along with other popular functions. Glideaway has several models. The best pricing I have seen so far for the Glideaway models is from RestRightMattress.com in Texas and MagicSleeper in Pottstown, PA. MagicSleeper is a member of TMU. What else can people tell me about these two online retailers? This is a big ticket item so I want to be confident in whom I am dealing with.

I have been told that Leggett & Platt is coming out with a tilt model but I am not sure when and not sure what features it will have. Can anyone share more information about L&P tilt products and timeline? If I knew they would have a competitive product, both in features and price, I might be willing to wait for a while.

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25 Feb 2019 12:46 - 25 Feb 2019 12:57 #8 by Phoenix

Hi johnep,

Sorry to hear about your GERD condition, usually a flat sleeping surface using an inclined mattress is usually one of the most effective solutions to assist with the acid reflux issue and you are correct that Power foundations with elevation capabilities are very popular items in that regard. The Glideaway models with an elevation kit such as Odessa or Accord adjustable base offered by Magic Sleeper here with incline. are very good options for this. As far as Leggat & Platt new offerings I’d make sure to post your question on Richmond Bedding’s expert on TMU forum as they are our L&P experts that have had every model and would know about any new offerings and features that L&P has or plans to offer in the near future. As Richmond Bedding (owner Tim Hilles) has been directly dealing with the manufacturer for many years they have very competitive prices that you may wish to check out. We do not have any information about Legget and Plats potential future product, and we rarely coment comment upon new arrivals until the product has been formally introduced and had a chance to be l evaluated. Certainly, I am not surprised that L&P would have such a product coming out in the near future.

As far as Rest Right Mattress, they are a fairly new online retailer (opened in 2016 and owned by Jesse Crow) providing adjustable beds and mattresses so there is not much track history with specific information regarding their products and customer service that has been posted on TMU. Magic Sleeper, is a Trusted Member of TMU which means that they have been vetted by TMU against a set of rigorous criteria for membership… which means that we think highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the ]best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. I’d certainly make sure to give them a call as they have a wealth of knowledge and experience to help their customers make informed buying decisions.
Additionally, you might find interesting to read more about therapy and inclined bed solution post and also about different sleeping positions in, this article here .

Good luck with buying this product, of course, this is a big purchase so let us know if you have other questions.

Phoenix


Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: 25 Feb 2019 12:57 by Phoenix.

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02 Mar 2019 11:56 #9 by johnep

I finally pulled the trigger on a Glideaway Odessa adjustable bed from Rest Right Mattress in Texas . That is the Glideaway top of the line product. RRM was about 20% lower than other quotes (some were also brick and mortar businesses). I would liked to have seen less separation in pricing but from what little info I gathered on RRM, they were creditable. I also got white glove service to set it up. My days of lifting 200+ lb objects are long gone.

Hopefully, the bed and the mattress from APM will arrive in roughly the same time frame.

I went back and forth on adjustable versus conventional foundation/support system. In order to do the conventional approach I would have needed a center support which got complicated if I wanted to elevate the head of my bed with blocks (all the legs would need to be aligned). I did find an innovative solution to that issue at the Sleep Shop in Hudson, NC but decided the adjustable bed was a simpler, albeit more expensive, solution to my problem. The Sleep Shop told me they get calls from all over the US by people seeking specialized solutions to bed/mattress support problems. That may be a vendor worth checking out for TMU.

Thanks for your help. I will let you know how it works out.

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04 Mar 2019 17:41 #10 by Phoenix

Hi johnep,

Wow, congratulations on the Glideaway Odessa Adjustable!!!! :) I think you are going to love this product, well ... at least I hope you do. Good price and the white glove delivery sounds great. I understand the back and forth, and steering away from complications that may occur from each of the added extra steps.

Thanks for the heads up on the Sleep Shop, in Hudson NC, I have heard good things about them, and some of the friends of TMU in the industry speak highly of them.

Thank you again and we look forward to your feedback soon.

Phoenix


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