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My mattress choices check-up & direction... pocket coil... Arizona Pr/Luma/Nest

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09 Apr 2019 10:32 - 09 Apr 2019 10:35 #1 by iloveresearch
This site and forum are a fantastic resource, I really appreciate all of the great detailed information, thank you to all the experts and authors. After reading through all of the primers and a good chunk of forum posts, I've narrowed down what I think might work best, but would appreciate if I could compare notes and check if my thinking makes sense. (I apologize if this is not the right place to post this question, I couldn't find a specific section just for recommendations).

Background:
Myself: 5'10", 130 lbs, BMI 19, female, wide hips but wider shoulders, small waist, lanky, long neck/torso
Fiancé: 6'8", 225 lbs, BMI 25, male, wide shoulders, small waist, lanky, loooong legs
Sleeping Style: roughly 60% side, 40% back/stomach, moderate tossing/turning
Key Concerns: I often have lower right back pain, that area is often inflamed and protrudes more than the left side so I'm uneven; I recently injured my neck and wake up with stiff and sore neck/shoulders; my fiancé often wakes up sore with aches in his shoulders and back
Other Considerations: my fiancé often feels hot when asleep, so something breathable and temperature neutral would be great; not sure how to phrase this properly, but we have an active sex life so that is a major consideration in addition to sleep quality
Current Frame: Solid wood platform bed, queen, 17 slats, center support leg, max 800 lbs
Current Bed: Simmons Beautysleep (Crate & Barrel version), queen, already sagging on my fiancés side after ~1 year, can feel the springs in other areas
Budget: ~$1,000-$1,500 (but willing to spend more if there's a compelling reason)

Proposed Build:
Support core: 6-8" non-zoned pocket coil innerspring with support edge (e.g. L&P Bolsa Quantum Edge Elite)
Comfort layer: 3" talalay (natural or blend), medium (high-20s, low-30s ILD)
Cover: ~1" wool or bamboo

Questions:
1. Does a hybrid latex/innerspring seem like the right choice?
2. Originally was leaning toward a zoned innerspring (e.g. L&P combi-zone), but seems like zoned is less ideal for side sleepers and really tall folks. Is that correct?
3. Arizona Premium Mattress seems perfect for this type of build, but are there other manufacturers/sellers that we should check out? Also considering Luma Natural Latex Hybrid and Nest Hybrid Latex.
4. APM's Bolsa is 6" and CombiZone is 8", does innerspring height make a difference for us?
5. Seems like side sleepers should aim for softer comfort layers, but heavier folks should aim for firmer (which will end up feeling softer), so am I right in thinking we should average out to medium (high-20s ILD)?
6. Do we need a second comfort layer or is a 3" latex comfort layer sufficient given our stats?

Thanks so much for your help!!
Last edit: 09 Apr 2019 10:35 by iloveresearch.

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10 Apr 2019 18:10 - 10 Apr 2019 18:38 #2 by Phoenix
Hi ilovesearch,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

Thank you for the kind words and for the information you provided. Sorry to hear that your current Simmons Beautysleep is sagging and let you down after only one year of use. While it can get a little intense when you start out with research and testing for a new bed and it is great to see that you dived into it, organizing things according to your personal value equations and asking the right questions. ? Well done!

Does a hybrid latex/innerspring seem like the right choice?


Hybrid mattresses are a great choice for many people and from the specifics you shared I’d tend to agree that it is a good option to mitigated both some of the temperature regulation issues you mentioned and the conforming qualities that you seem to need due to your recent injuries. Keep in mind that while I can certainly help with "how" to choose, It's difficult to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation. about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences). Post #16 also talks about different innerspring designs and how they work. Hopefully, all of this will give you a little more insight into the pocketed spring unit, and also an idea of how complicated it is for the engineers to come up with the right designs.

Originally was leaning toward a zoned innerspring (e.g. L&P combi-zone), but seems like zoned is less ideal for side sleepers and really tall folks. Is that correct?


Zoning systems of various types can sometimes be useful and worth considering for people that have more difficulty finding a mattress with the right "balance" between comfort/pressure relief (under the shoulders especially) and support/alignment (under the hips/pelvis especially) or who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to "match" to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here and the additional posts it links to but once again the only way to know whether any specific mattress (zoned or otherwise) will be a good "match" for you in terms of PPP will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience.
With zoning, you’d need to take into account how your weight is distributed the distance between the hip and shoulders and where within the mattress you need to position yourself to get the desired alignment and comfort and to add to this you’d need to consider how your choice will be appropriate for your fiancée. Of course, that can be solved with the split king but you have many more variables to work with when dealing with zoning and you may be facing the classic dilemma of a couple with different needs and preferences that need to be designed into the same mattress or "sleeping system".

I am sure you came across this article already but it is worth reading about innersprings and their differences here it in the context of zoning. Coil height is just one of the many variables in an innerspring unit, and I’d try to avoid getting too caught up in the complex and different constructions of the various pocketed spring units, and focus on instead the ability of an innerspring support unit to contour to your body (which pocketed spring units tend to do quite well) and the ability of the innerspring unit to hold up the heavier areas of your body and promote a more neutral alignment. Hips will usually sink in more than shoulders as there is more weight in that area. When sleeping upon side the difference between shoulder and hips is less than when measured standing up (as scapula adducts and upward rotates)Due to your recent injury I would also make sure that you reevaluate your pillow to make sure that it is providing a decent alignment to keep your cervical/upper thoracic region in a relatively neutral arrangement.

Arizona Premium Mattress seems perfect for this type of build, but are there other manufacturers/sellers that we should check out? Also considering Luma Natural Latex Hybrid and Nest Hybrid Latex.


Just about every person who buys a mattress or is a member of the forum has wrestled with a similar scenario which is all about how to choose between "good and good" choices. Arizona Premium, Luma and Nest options you listed are very good choices, while it’s difficult to say which one is better as it relates to your own personal value equation and what is most important to you they are all listed on trusted members w/ hybrid innerspring and would be great quality/value choices. I’d make sure to call each of your finalists to discuss your specifics. They all have a wealth of knowledge, experience, and understanding of body types and how they interact with different mattress and are EXCELLENT in helping their customer find the right match. You may want to ask them about topper returns/exchanges as this could be helpful as you see how they would work with the bed design for your back/neck/shoulders, etc; There are many beds out there that could fit your criteria if you wish more options but you can scan through our trusted members to see what else you can find.

APM's Bolsa is 6" and CombiZone is 8", does innerspring height make a difference for us?


Both of coil systems are very high-quality support units, and there is some variation provided by Leggett, at your BMI I wouldn’t get too caught up in these differences, especially if you add another layer, on top of the proposed 3” Talalay. Generally, I'd keep in mind that thicker layers can "act" softer so with a slightly thicker mattress you can use firmer layers on top that are more adaptable to a greater range of weights and sleeping positions. See post #14 here for more about layer or mattress thickness.

FYI, if you have not read them….some information on the Bolsa and the Combi-Zone The Bolsa is more or less the “standard” pocketed spring from Leggett and Platt. It can be manufactured in many different varieties per a manufacturer’s request (gauge, turns, profile, diameter…). The Combi-Zone is a combination of different styles of pocketed springs in different zones. These could be different Bolsa springs, or perhaps a combination of Bolsa and Quantum springs. These are commonly zoned in three or five zones, depending upon the request of a manufacturer. Some designs can allow for the shoulders and hips to sink in a bit more, or others can provide support in the middle third of the mattress. Again, Leggett allows for quite a bit of customization, and a manufacturer can work with Leggett’s designers.

Seems like side sleepers should aim for softer comfort layers, but heavier folks should aim for firmer (which will end up feeling softer), so am I right in thinking we should average out to medium (high-20s ILD)?


While it is impossible for me to predict with certainty you seem to have done a great deal of research and you are on the right track with your choices so far. A medium may seem like a “safer” option ... just keep in mind that it all depends on personal preferences, and of the many other variables including the needs and preferences of each of the partners and of the “couple” that may end up just the opposite of “what people say”.

Do we need a second comfort layer or is a 3" latex comfort layer sufficient given our stats?


There is more in post #14 here about the potential benefits of thicker individual layers or the mattress itself. 8" - 9" is inside the range for the thickness of the layers inside a mattress that would allow for a suitable design for the large majority of people with an average BMI. You may wish to do a bit more local testing of some similar models if there are any stores near you that carry them....which is usually the most effective way to predict whether a specific mattress will be a suitable "match" for you and point you in the right direction. bring you "close enough" to your actual sleeping experience that only relatively minor fine tuning will be necessary if any is necessary at all. These could include the type of mattress protector you use, adding a mattress pad, the type of sheets and bedding that you choose, or in some cases even exchanging a layer in the mattress (if your mattress is a component mattress) or adding a topper ... see post #4 here ).

This turned out to be a long post but for someone with a “ilovesearch” username, I'll add a final tidbit regarding the temperature regulation issues you mention ... innersprings and pocket coils have more "air" in them so they would be more breathable than any other type foam materials but the deeper layers of a mattress also have less effect on the ventilation and temperature of a mattress than the comfort layers. There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range. There is also more information in post #2 here that talks about the various symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and some of the reasons that can cause them that can help with the detective work or trial and error that may be necessary to identify the types of changes that may be helpful.

Another look at your finalists from the point of view of your "personal value equation" along with the expertise and recommendations from the conversation with each of the manufacturers would most likely give you enough clues to make an informed decision.

Good luck, and I would be interested to hear about your progress and the reasoning behind it once you get closer to the final choice.

Phoenix

Note: I'll also be moving your post and my reply to it to its own dedicated thread so as not to interfere with other topics that Sensei has in progress.

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Last edit: 10 Apr 2019 18:38 by Phoenix.

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15 Apr 2019 13:45 #3 by iloveresearch
Thanks so much Phoenix for the detailed response, it was very helpful. I really appreciate how much time and attention you give to everyone on this site!! I'll be reaching out to APM next as you suggested. Who knew mattress research could be so exciting =D

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16 Apr 2019 10:32 #4 by Phoenix
Hi ilovesearch,

You are most welcome and thank you again for your post. I look forward to hearing how the search progresses. I am glad you are contacting APM and/or others. Good luck!

Phoenix

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09 May 2019 15:55 - 10 May 2019 11:29 #5 by David K
Well, this site provides a wealth of information in the sea of confusion that mattress buying can be. Thank you.

Here's our situation, 5 years ago, my wife and I bought a Serta iComfort Prodigy to replace an EZ Sleep all latex bed that we had for @ 6 years. That bed sagged and no longer supported us (it was a 3 layer, soft/medium and firm) and left us with backaches even after flipping the top layer, which was a pain in the neck. That bed always felt like sinking in concrete. Prior to that, we slept on softside waveless waterbeds, which were wonderful except that if it was adjusted right for one person, it was uncomfortable for two and vice versa. Prior to that, I sold and slept on original style hardside waterbeds since the late 70's.

Now in our late 60's, the iComfort has been much more comfortable than the latex, but it seems like now, the top comfort layers are collapsing and no longer doing their job, leading to backaches for both of us.I'm also starting to sleep very hot on it. I'm 5' 10" and 196 lds, down from 216 a year ago and my wife is 5'7" and in the mid-200's. We both switch back and forth from side to back sleeping.

My research has led me towards a foam/coil spring hybrid. Specifically, I'm considering either the Ghostbed Flex or the Nest Alexander Signature Hybrid. I have not ruled out a Dreamcloud, Brooklyn Bedding or Helix either. Any input or shared experience would be welcome.

Thanks in advance.
Last edit: 10 May 2019 11:29 by David K. Reason: Format

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10 May 2019 11:39 #6 by Sensei
Hey David,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

Thank you for the post, and thanks for the nice words about TMU.

Noted on the Icomfort Prodigy, that was a good mattress that Serta made in 2014. I am not surprised some of the comfort layers are breaking down, but you actually did pretty well for these layers to last 5 years. Some people are seeing a breakdown in materials after 1 or 1.5 years.

Just as an aside, that's so cool you "bought and sold" hardside waterbeds. Growing up one of my best friends parents had three different "original style hardside waterbeds", which for a teenager was awesome when we had sleepovers. That is my experience in total of these beds. Your post brought back memories....ok I digress.

I think your choice of the GB flex and the Nest Signature is a good direction at this point. Both of these coil units are of high quality and very supportive. As you well know, there is no way for us to give you any direction of which one will be better for you and your spouse.

I know you may have read some or most of the information, but this post - How to....best mattress for you is a great post organizing many critical points about buying a new mattress. Also, both Nest and GB have many years of experience in the mattress industry and they most likely will have knowledge of the Serta Prodigy from 2014/15 models.

Good luck and let us know if you have any other questions.

Thanks
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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