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My narrowed options to All Latex ... small & stomach sleeper ...need Advice

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24 May 2019 09:57 #1 by floreciente
Hi all,

Firstly, what a wonderful resource this is! It has helped me immensely over the past few months in my mattress search. While unfortunately the hybrid mattress I bought hasn't worked for me, I know I received a better fit than I likely would have without this website, and the 100 day trial I was offered means no harm done. So thank you!

I am now on the search for a 100% natural latex mattress as I hope that the resilience and bounce of the material will stop the 'sinking in' overly soft feeling of my current mattress (a hybrid containing a 1-2cm wool layer, 3cm 50D memory foam and 3cm 70D blended latex above a 5 zone pocket spring system). I am a small person around 100lb and 5'1 and I think I must sink in just too much to the soft layers, but just not enough to have the firmer layers push back and provide enough alignment. Plus I tend to sleep on my stomach so need a firm surface. Hence my search for latex. I'm in Australia and have it narrowed down to two mattresses.

One is a 100% natural Dunlop latex mattress containing three layers. The idea is that there is a medium surface and a firm surface, and that the mattress can be flipped to which ever the owner prefers. It is made of 5cm D75, 10cm D80, 5cm D65. They are glued (latex glue) and can’t be moved around unfortunately. It also features 1.5cm of cotton poly blend (approx 40:60 with the outer cover being 100% GOTS certified cotton) quilting on each side. It is a finished mattress with no zipper. Their warranty only covers indentations of over 2.5cm, they say this is to cover the level of settling that the quilt may do. Seems to me that they might as well not even have a warranty as most latex won’t lose over 5% of its height, this would be 10.8%. The ability to flip the mattress for increased softness or firmness does appeal to me though when buying sight unseen as it increases the likelihood of getting a good match. I’m unsure how much dominating layers would change the feel though, plus it also halves the life of the mattress compared to a single slab with a topper that can be moved into the other side when one side wears down in the years to come. This latex is from Arpico in Sri Lanka, which has organic certifications in addition to the normal safety ones. I do like that this means the workers are being paid fairly etc. The cost of this mattress is $1149. If it is too firm, a 5cm topper is available with D65 for $389. They’re a brand new company but they’ve answered all my questions about specifics with ease, and they seem to have done lots of testing with latex from different locations.

On the other hand, the second mattress is just one 20cm block of 75 density 100% natural Dunlop latex but it is zoned, unlike the layered mattress. I am not sure if there is much of a benefit of zoning with latex? I also worry that the zones will be inappropriately placed on me as I’m short at 5’1. The cover is completely removable and is only 1.5mm thick. It’s a Bamboo poly blend, again 40:60. The cover has no quilting hence it’s thinness. This company will cover indentations over 1.1cm as this is 5% of the height of the mattress. The latex is from Latexco in Belgium, they ensure me it is 100% (not 99.9%) natural latex. The benefit with this mattress is that you can double it’s life by flipping the latex without changing the firmness, plus the warranty is fantastic. The price is $1495. If it’s too firm, the company will source a 100% natural latex topper and pay 50% of the price. They state they’ve only had 3 returns in the past 12 months and they’re a company that has been around for 12 years.

Both come compressed in a box and offer 100 day trials with full refunds, though only the layered mattress will cover return shipping (zoned mattress charge $150).

I’d love to hear any opinions, particularly on:
Zoned vs unzoned latex
Layered (particularly dominant layering) vs single slab latex
Quilting vs no quilting particularly with latex mattresses

It is very hard to choose between good and good :) both mattresses have great benefits that the other doesn’t (eg better warranty, more firmness settings or a removable cover). If the layered mattress was non glued and in a zip cover it would make my choice much easier and probably fit all my wants and requirements!

I live in a location where there are no natural latex mattresses to try out in person so I can’t say for sure which density I’d prefer. The only latex I’ve tried was an ikea mattress, fully synthetic and consisting of half poly foam when I unzipped the cover.

Thanks!

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26 May 2019 16:55 #2 by Sensei
Hi florecinta.

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

Thank you for such a nice and wonderful post. We have had some AUS latex posts in the past. Just curious, can you let the forum know what brands you are considering? It is very helpful to read their descriptions and information they provide. I understand the first option is a "brand new company" but surely they have a website we can check out?

Regarding your two options:

One is a 100% natural Dunlop latex mattress containing three layers. The idea is that there is a medium surface and a firm surface, and that the mattress can be flipped to whichever the owner prefers. It is made of 5cm D75, 10cm D80, 5cm D65. They are glued (latex glue) and can’t be moved around unfortunately. It also features 1.5cm of cotton poly blend (approx 40:60 with the outer cover being 100% GOTS certified cotton) quilting on each side. It is a finished mattress with no zipper. Their warranty only covers indentations of over 2.5cm



Interesting that they are using this build. Are they manufacturing this mattress in Australia, or in Sri Lanka? Are they gluing the layers in AUS or Sri Lanka? Just curious. Arpico is very familiar for consumers in the USA as many of our members use Arpico. This type of layering seldom used, but has gained popularity with Zenhaven in the USA using a soft on one side / firm on the other side. Utilizing the D80 core with D65 / D75 on top and bottom, I would be very cautious about expecting to feel a very noticeable difference on each of these sides.

I’m unsure how much dominating layers would change the feel though, plus it also halves the life of the mattress compared to a single slab with a topper that can be moved into the other side when one side wears down in the years to come



I am not entirely sure what you mean by dominating layers, but latex is consistently best used by layering. You can read about this in putting the layers together . It does not half the life of a latex mattress if you do layered latex mattress versus a sing core design. Good quality latex mattresses last many many years and are not halved because of layering.

This latex is from Arpico in Sri Lanka, which has organic certifications in addition to the normal safety ones. I do like that this means the workers are being paid fairly etc.



GOTS certifications has nothing to do with the fair treatment of workers. Can you elaborate which certifications have to do with "workers being paid fairly". Latexco has no GOTS certified latex, but I can assure you they pay their workers fairly. I know of some "certified" latex companies, with dubious working conditions.

I am not sure if there is much of a benefit of zoning with latex? I also worry that the zones will be inappropriately placed on me as I’m short at 5’1.



I tend to agree with your instinct on zoned latex. Especially because you are a stomach sleeper, very low BMI, and these "designs" of these latex cores are really cool looking, but I never see good data of this showing any real efficacy in support and pressure relief.

The benefit with this mattress is that you can double it’s life by flipping the latex without changing the firmness, plus the warranty is fantastic. The price is $1495. If it’s too firm, the company will source a 100% natural latex topper and pay 50% of the price. They state they’ve only had 3 returns in the past 12 months and they’re a company that has been around for 12 years.


Ok, well I don't really consider this doubling its life. But in theory, I understand the benefit of what you are saying. But please know that after sleeping on one side for let's say, 1 year. Then you flip the mattress over, it will feel different, as over time the top will have softened. This happens over time and one's body gets used to it. When you turn this mattress over the bottom will feel different. Now this may be perfect for you, but it will not feel the same. Just want to make sure you at least know this going into the purchase.

That is a nice benefit of getting a topper at half price. Good work on their part to reduce returns. They have been around for 12 years? What brand? What company, it's kind of what we do here at TMU, we publicly discuss these companies so consumers have real and transparent information.

It is very hard to choose between good and good :) both mattresses have great benefits that the other doesn’t (eg better warranty, more firmness settings or a removable cover). If the layered mattress was non glued and in a zip cover it would make my choice much easier and probably fit all my wants and requirements!



You make a great point, bot of these mattresses are made of high-quality materials and this is always why the answer is never really which is better, but which is better for "you".

Thank you again for your great post, and I look forward to getting more information about which companies and brands you are talking about.

Sensei

Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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26 May 2019 19:19 - 26 May 2019 19:20 #3 by floreciente

Sensei wrote: Just curious, can you let the forum know what brands you are considering? It is very helpful to read their descriptions and information they provide. I understand the first option is a "brand new company" but surely they have a website we can check out?


The companies are Fern Earth and Zenna.

Interesting that they are using this build. Are they manufacturing this mattress in Australia, or in Sri Lanka? Are they gluing the layers in AUS or Sri Lanka? Just curious. Arpico is very familiar for consumers in the USA as many of our members use Arpico. This type of layering seldom used, but has gained popularity with Zenhaven in the USA using a soft on one side / firm on the other side. Utilizing the D80 core with D65 / D75 on top and bottom, I would be very cautious about expecting to feel a very noticeable difference on each of these sides.


I’m not actually sure whether they are manufacturing and gluing the mattress here or there. Would this make a difference?
Interesting that the sides wouldn’t feel much different, and I’m thankful you’ve brought this to my attention prior to purchase as I would have expected a difference.

I am not entirely sure what you mean by dominating layers, but latex is consistently best used by layering. You can read about this in putting the layers together . It does not half the life of a latex mattress if you do layered latex mattress versus a sing core design. Good quality latex mattresses last many many years and are not halved because of layering.

By that I mean a softer layer on the bottom as compared to the middle layers, rather than a more progressive layering as I’ve seen mostly on here. If the sides are not too different in feel then the life of the mattress will not change like you say as both will be usable :-)

GOTS certifications has nothing to do with the fair treatment of workers. Can you elaborate which certifications have to do with "workers being paid fairly". Latexco has no GOTS certified latex, but I can assure you they pay their workers fairly. I know of some "certified" latex companies, with dubious working conditions.

In this case, I must have misunderstood. I was under the impression that organic certifications didn’t mean much more than ensuring sustainability and fair trade practices, and that the material itself would be the same. Of course, that is not to say that other companies don’t do the same, but there is no proof of that without the GOLS certification.

You make a great point, bot of these mattresses are made of high-quality materials and this is always why the answer is never really which is better, but which is better for "you".


Thanks for your reply, it is much appreciated. I went on a bit of a road trip yesterday and managed to try out a latex mattress at Makin Mattresses. It was incredible but at $2699, far out of my price range when I have these options available to me. It was a Belgian 7 zoned latex core, 70% natural 30% synthetic, with a small layer of 4000 micro coils probably about an inch high, with roughly an inch of quilting that appeared to be some sort of foam with cotton on top. They couldn’t, or wouldn’t, disclose the density of the foams, so it didn’t help too much with comparisons. It was their firmest model though. At the least, it helped confirm to me that latex is what I want.
Last edit: 26 May 2019 19:20 by floreciente.

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28 May 2019 12:36 #4 by Sensei
Hey fioreciente,

Wow, thank you so much for that detailed reply.

I see you posted in this other thread, as this was exactly why I was wondering about brands, as we have commented on some of these companies in the past. Normally in the USA we don't allow consumers to post website url's, but as you can see on the Latex Mattress in AUS thread, we let them go, as it seems better for AUS consumers that do visit TMU.

Regarding the two-sided, every person is different, and depending on the sensitivity of the sleeper, one may feel a difference...I am making general comments from experience in latex, and consumers comments here and there.

RE; Makin Mattress latex mattress you tried. Very interesting design but also the latex core you tried would be very similar to the one you mentioned at Zenna. The 7 zone core that Latexco sells, mold height I thought was 18cm, maybe a very similar feeling product (of course the coils are completely different) but re; the latex core. Too bad they didn't give you any density info.

The certification game sometimes it kind of hits a cord with me, so I don't judge your understanding of it at all. I would market them as much as anyone. There are a ton of links on TMU about the details of GOTS / GOLS certs at this post #2 , if you are interested, I personally don't use this to evaluate latex quality of the latex producers.

Let us know if you choose one....and you may or may not get a response from the previous consumers, as sometimes they get info, and are not back for a while.

Thanks again, and please don't hesitate to ask any other questions.

Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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03 Jul 2019 18:27 #5 by floreciente
Well I bought the Fern Earth mattress. Initial feel was indeed firm but certainly not too firm but rather on the edge of what I would consider just firm enough. I worried that it would soften too much during the break in period. After 4 weeks on it, I am finding it much too soft and beginning to wake up with middle to lower back pain again. I am sleeping on my side too so should be able to tolerate a softer mattress. Very frustrated to be in this position again and back to the drawing board. I do love the feel of the latex though. Just wish it wasn’t so difficult to buy a truly firm mattress. I am now considering ikea, they may be poor quality and cheap but at least they’re firm and I can always add a 100% natural latex firm topper to it if need be. Otherwise I could fork out a couple thousand for a latex mattress with removable and swappable layers, but at this point I’m getting sick of spending money that doesn’t work out well.

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06 Jul 2019 14:13 #6 by Sensei
Hi floreciente,

Welcome back, and thanks for the update. Really sorry that after 4 weeks you saw that much softening, this is really frustrating. I know you like the latex feel so sorry this has not worked out.

I understand the IKEA idea, but be careful about the density fo the latex, as if it is a 75 density, not sure this will be ok with added firmer topper, but it may work. I am just worried that you are getting something that is not what you need. It seems to me that you most likely need the bottom 6 inches to be at least 85 kg/m3.

Did we ever get the exact specifications of the mattress you purchased? I remember that it has a firm 5cm layer, then medium 10cm layer, followed by a 5cm soft layer. What are the specific densities of these? Let me know if you know this info.

Thanks,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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