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Could pocketed coils beneath latex and wool be correct course of action?

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31 May 2019 07:28 #11 by Sensei
Hi jmtexie,

Thank you again for your answers. First off I want to give a shout out to Arizona premium, And I'm sure you probably spoke to Ken who is a well-known, and well respected here at TMU.

Regarding the flexible slats, these are very good products and work well as a high-quality foundation. I do want to point out that It is in the comfort layers where you are needing to find some variation from what you have before. I agree that wool is a great compliment with latex comfort layers.

For the sake of clarity, one has a foundation, support core, and comfort layers in any mattress. Sometimes these get all mixed up in discussions.

Regarding the suggestion from Arizona premium, and the point that your spouse makes, It may make sense to add a medium/plush Latex topper on top of the firm Dunlop topper. Of course, you may be able to just replace the firm topper with a medium topper. The coil products are support core, separate from the slatted foundations. The combi-zone is relatively firm, so I can see why Ken is asking you to try it, as if you just replaced the "2x coir/firm topper" with coils, and added your wool you will not have really affected the pressure relief you mentioned in your first post. Talk to Arizona about medium/plush topper which is what he uses 99% of the time on top of the coil product, and latex support cores for that matter. You may be able to try this at first, then decide of foundation, different support core is needed.

Hope this helps, message back if you have any other thoughts.

Thanks,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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01 Jun 2019 10:17 - 01 Jun 2019 10:19 #12 by jmteixe
Sensei,
For the past 2 nights I have tried our 1) Comfort layer: the Ultimate quilted wool topper by Holy Lamb, which is 2.5 " to 3" thick ( www.holylamborganics.com/collections/org...ganic-quilted-topper ), on top of our 2) Support Layer: Savvy Rest Firm Dunlop on top of the 2 x coconut coir rugs, which rests on top of our slated wood foundation. I woke up with lower back pain because my rear sinks and numb arms because my shoulders aren't sinking enough.

Yesterday, I ordered a latex exchange through Savvy Rest. We should be receiving medium dunlop layers in exchange for the firm dunlops in a couple of weeks.

I am wondering if I should cancel the exchange. Wouldn't changing the foundation to coils or flexible slats make a difference?

As of last night, before I went to bed, my plan was:
1) Sleep on Medium dunlop alone when it arrives
2) Try wool topper or wool mattress on top of latex
3) Try both wool topper and wool mattress on top of latex
4) Change foundation to flexible slats or coils (6" synonymous coils or 8" zoned coils)
5) Depending on slat or coil, buy a case to encapsulate the layers

Yours thoughts, please?
Respectfully,
Jmteixe
Last edit: 01 Jun 2019 10:19 by jmteixe. Reason: I forgot to check the "be notified" box

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02 Jun 2019 10:43 - 02 Jun 2019 10:44 #13 by Sensei
Hi Jmtexie,

Thanks again for the post. Some of my thoughts…..

Understood on the trial of the holy Lamb organics on top of the firm Dunlop. Your description is clear that you’re sinking through the wall and both so your alignment is off, additionally, you’re not getting enough pressure relief, i.e. numb shoulders. I think the medium Dunlop will work out well in the future.

1) Sleep on Medium Dunlop alone when it arrives
2) Try wool topper or wool mattress on top of latex


Okay, noted on the medium Dunlop, I am thinking that you are still going to want your plush wool topper/mattress, as this is the field you prefer. When you put on top of latex I think you will end up in the same issue you had on your most recent trial.

3) Try both wool topper and wool mattress on top of latex


Of course, I think you should try this, but I am concerned you only get “a little” more pressure relief, as you will sink down through the two wool layers, but really I am curious as what you feel.

4) Change foundation to flexible slats or coils (6" synonymous coils or 8" zoned coils)


If you go with the coils, you will still need a foundation. Whether it is regular slats of flexible slats. I know the flexible slats definitely act as more of a foundation and a support system, but I just want to be clear about the coils.

I see you going to these options but correct me if I am wrong.

Option A

Top Wool (3 or 5” or both)
Medium Dunlop
Flexible slat foundation

Option B
Top Wool (3 or 5” or both)
Medium Dunlop
Coil – (I say 6” non zoned, bit less firm)
Regular Foundation you have today

I can't say what is the best way to go, only you can decide that.... but my gut feel is with both options, you may have a need for another layer of latex or memory foam, to bolster the pressure relief on your back/hips and shoulders.

Talk soon,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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Last edit: 02 Jun 2019 10:44 by Sensei. Reason: minor corrections

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04 Jul 2019 01:15 #14 by jmteixe
Hello Sensei,

We tried the Flexible Slats (Flo Beds) since our last correspondence. They are very well made and sad they didn't relieve pressure points for my shoulder area. The butterfly clips supplied with the foundation allow customers to firm-up the slats (4 through 9) nearer waist through thighs, however needed. My problem with the slats was I moved around the bed half-asleep looking for comfort. Thankfully the slats are refundable and there weren't any hard feelings.

Also, we replaced the firm dunlop with a medium dunlop. I think this was a good idea. As of last night, the medium dunlop is our "topper", on top of our 5" wool mattress. The dunlop was beneath the wool mattress but the wool presses against my shoulders and causes numbness down into my arms as soon as I wake in the morning. So, we will try this configuration for couple of more nights before tring an additional topper.

As per your suggestion in Option B, and the feeling I am getting of (minor) pressure point irritation in my shoulder today, I am thinking about adding a natural foam topper to put on top of the latex: www.whitelotushome.com/bedding/evergreen-foam-topper.html . If you have a moment, I would like to hear your thoughts on this product, which unfortunately is not refundable. I have a functional nutritionist who proves my biomechanics rejects talalay, and I believe it. I love the idea of talalay but my body really doesn't like it. So, adding another latex is not a good option. We have a wool topper that I have not tried on our current configuration. And, we have not purchased coils yet. Therefore, there are a few things left that still give us some options, the (fluffy) wool topper being the most readily accessible option at this point...but I don't think it will work based on past experience.

Pillows are constantly an issue. Of course every time I change my mattress or foundation or topper the pillow has to change as well. I have an adjustable fill one with shredded latex (mixture of talalay and dunlop) but I am not getting it filled to the right levels yet. Therefore, my neck hurts after last night. I am going to try side sleeping tonight. If I sleep on my back, which I prefer, I would like a thin pillow to compensate for the small gap between my head and shoulders.

Just wanted to update you on our work in progress.

Thank you for all of your support.
Respectfully,
Jackie

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05 Jul 2019 12:40 #15 by Sensei
Hey jmtexie,

Thanks for the update and nice to hear from you. Just a couple of quick thoughts regarding the Evergreen Foam Topper. Here is some of the description from their website:

The Evergreen Foam Topper - Is a FIRM and supportive handmade topper at a great price.


Some additional info on our Evergreen Foam:
All foam is comprised of oils. These oils, regardless of origin, form the organic compound polyurethane --- it's an umbrella term that describes the chemical compound, not the source. While most conventional oils will use damaging petroleum as their base, our Evergreen Foam will only use soy, castor, and other vegetable oils. To process the liquid oil into a foam product, polyols are added; polyol is sugar-based alcohol derived from castor and vegetable oils that burns off in the manufacturing process. In short, even though foam is a man-made product, all components of our Evergreen Foam are naturally derived from plant-based oils. It's as natural as foam can come!
You can think of the process much like baking a whisky cake: the batter starts out as a liquid, but baking chemically transforms the mixture from liquid to solid, while the alcohol burns off almost entirely.


Essentially this is a polyurethane topper, yes they tell the story about using these really cool oils, but a very small percentage of the all the chemicals are these oils, it is polyurethane just like many of the others. Yes it has wool around it, which is good, yes it is wrapped in cotton, also good. But the aggressive natural story on poly foam is just a bit too much of a stretch, in my opinion.

But we don't have any idea what the density or ILD/IFD. So we have no idea if its best used below latex or above. Also, I assume it is NOT memory foam, so its just high-density poly foam, which generally speaking is not used as a comfort layer. I think you should email ask for density, ILD/IFD (firmness) and whether is memory foam, high resilience foam, or regular poly foam.

I will take your word on the biomechanics/latex and your trust in this. I have to do a little more research into this myself.

Lets touch base after you move forward with other options, or any other questions you may have.

Thanks
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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08 Jul 2019 12:05 #16 by jmteixe
Hello Sensei,

I appreciate your inputs and additional questions. The company responded with all the details about the foam, via this web address:
www.whitelotushome.com/bedding/wholesale...n-foam-eco-foam.html . It seems like a better alternative than "other" foams. But, what are your thoughts? If so, it may be better than the medium dunlop latex I have but will order a sample and ask the functional nutritionalist to check it with my biomechanics.

After a year and a half, I think my body really just doesn't like sleeping on top of latex, unfortunately I just feel tired and sore when I wake-up. Starting to seem like the dunlop must stay beneath the wool mattress. I am going to try ordering coils today. I am getting a Physical Therapy assessment this week for the numbness in my upper extremities, I hope there is a treatment that can help.

Sincerely,
jmteixe

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08 Jul 2019 12:28 #17 by CBHWoodFurniture
Hi Jmteixe,
I have been following this thread for a few months now. Are you willing to part with your wool mattress? I always thought that a wool mattress is a bad idea since it does not offer any support. And from most of what you are reporting in this thread it seems like you are not properly supported on your bed and so end up with all these aches and pains.

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08 Jul 2019 13:06 #18 by jmteixe
Hello, that is a difficult question because my options are to 1) try to sell my wool mattress on ebay (probably with a financial loss), or 2) try to figure out how to DIY futon/couch. Based on what you have read, what I have written, do you recommend a replacement? Thank you.

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11 Jul 2019 08:53 #19 by Sensei
Hey jmteixe,

Thanks for sending the link. The polyfoam you are looking at is 1.8lb density 35ild. This foam is usually used as the base foam for a memory foam mattress. "My thoughts" are this will not help very much with pressure relief when used as a topper. This material is used for the support part of the mattress. IMO, it won't give you the pressure relief you are looking for.

I understand your issue with latex, so the next most common material to try would be memory foams, as we discussed. Let me know if I have no answer some other question.

Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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