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Brentwood Home Cedar latex hybrid causing back pain?

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06 Jul 2019 06:43 #1 by DeAngelis
Hi,
I purchased a Brentwood home cedar mattress about 3 months ago. From the very beginning I have had back pain with this mattress. The comapany graciously sent me a free comfort layer but it just felt like a repeat of the currant top layer making it extra bouncy but not relieving my back pain. I then tried a 2 inch Costco nova foam topper that I already had ( about 2 years old) although it felt great to get into it seems to cause neck pain as my trunk sank in more than my head. I also found the memory foam very hot. I then removed all the toppers and it is again very firm. The pain I’m experiencing is in my mid and upper back. The muscles ache about 3 hours into the night. I end up tossing and turning all night flipping to my side stomach and back throughout the night in order to relieve the pressure on my upper back. I was thinking of buying a 3 inch wool topper to see if that help but they are close to $800 and non returnable . And expensive experiment. I was in love with the idea of a non toxic and organic mattress but I need to wake up pain free and sleep for more than 4 hours a night. I purchased my mattress through Costco and can return it for up to a year... that being said I think I’m at my limit with this bed. Do you think a wool topper is a good idea or shall I move onto a different type of bed. My mattress base is wood box slats 4.5 inches apart and new . Mattress cover is thin bamboo water protector, sheets 100% cotton. I am female , 130 pounds, 5’4’’ back sleeper. My 190 pound husband seems to be fine with the bed.

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08 Jul 2019 00:14 #2 by Phoenix
Hi DeAngelis,

Welcome to our mattress forum :).

I am sorry that the Cedar mattress is not working out for you. While it's not possible to "diagnose" mattress comfort issues on a forum with any certainty because they can be very complex and there are too many unique unknowns, variables, and complexities involved that can affect how each person sleeps on a mattress in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP or any "symptoms" they experience ... there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 discussing back pains mattress, .

I would be cautious about investing in "another" topper of a material that you don't know if you like. Wool is a wonderful material for many people and it would certainly help with your memory foam topper sleeping hot issue, but it is not really possible for us to predict if this would be the best option for you. Wool is not really the best pressure-relieving material. Wool will compress by about 30% of its thickness as you sleep on it over time and this will happen faster in the areas you sleep more often or under the heavier parts of the body than it will in the areas that you sleep on less or under areas of your body that are lighter. It will tend to even out over time as you spend more time on the areas that you sleep on less often and they "catch" up to the areas that you sleep on more often over the course of the first few months (up to about 6 months or so) but it shouldn't have a significant effect on the comfort or support of the mattress.

Brentwood does a very nice job listing their specs on the Costco website. The coil unit is the - 8-inch Quantum® Edge Combizone support unit by Leggett & Platt®. This is well known, high quality, but pretty firm coil unit that many people use. In general, issues with “pain” earlier in the night tend to be surface comfort related, and issues with “pain” in the morning tend to be more alignment (deep support) related. Clearly, the bare bed (without the topper) seems to be too firm for your sleep needs. You don't mention the density, ILD and the condition of the 2-year-old memory foam topper you added in the second phase but it seems that it created some alignment issues for your back sleeping. Also, be sure that your pillow is not too thick (if you’re using one) as a suitable pillow is an essential part of good alignment for the head and neck and upper body because the gap between the head and the mattress and the curve of the cervical spine needs to be supported just like all other parts of the spine.

While you had many restless nights and you have reached your "limit with this bed" ... as you still have plenty of time to return it, you may still wish to experiment with a suitable pillow and a slightly firmer topper than the 2 years Memory foam topper you used to see if it makes any difference and in the process collect some more data points for the next purchase ... I always refrain to tell someone to start over while they still have some options as it is best to first try to understand the underlying cause of the issues you are having.

Let us know if you have other questions.

Phoenix

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08 Jul 2019 08:17 #3 by DeAngelis
Thank you for your input Phoenix.
I have bought two pillows to make sure I’m in proper alignment the first one is the Brentwood home adjustable latex and tencil pillow the other is technogel low profile memory foam cooling pillow. I thought I was having hot flashes the latex topper was sooo hot. Any way I prefer the adjustable latex pillow.
I do not know the density of the novaform topper I couldn’t find any info on it. It seems very soft though.
Here is a link to the current model Costco sells

www.costco.com/Novaform-ComfortLuxe-Gel-...oduct.100115178.html

I keep switching my toppers to see what kind of a difference it makes in how I feel. Today I woke up with stiffness from my mid back all the way to my low back with the novaform.

Without it, just the mattress no topper I had no lower back pain and only pain in my upper back and shoulder area.

Do you feel the nova form is too soft and the mattress is too hard? What type of topper would you suggest.
I feel like memory foam is also quite hot! I like to keep my blankets on as I sleep better with weight on me.

I was also looking into the sleep ez system you have listed on your site... do you think this type of bed would be more accommodating to my pain issues.
Because this bed is a split king does that eliminate the motion transfer you feel with latex? When I test the no split latex bed in the store they feel like a bowl of jello. I do think the soft talalay latex feels nice though .
When I go to the mattress stores in town they all seem to want to put me on a soft tempurpedic. My major issue with this is first cost . $5600!!! For a king and second they feel great to lay on In The store but so does my soft memory foam... I need to feel great 8 hours later . Hard to test in the store .
I have had 3 chiropractic adjustments and 7 weeks of physical
Therapy to try and address this. Neither has made one bit of improvement which is why I believe it’s the mattress...

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11 Jul 2019 12:36 - 11 Jul 2019 12:47 #4 by Phoenix
Hi DeAngelis,

You’re very welcome! :) Very useful info on your pillow and topper testing!

I do not know the density of the novaform topper I couldn’t find any info on it. It seems very soft though.


Novaform, is brand owned by Innocor, a memory foam developer and manufacturer. No density information is listed, most likely this topper is 3lb (maybe 2.8lb) memory foam, and they sell many thousands of these toppers. It looks like the layering (mattes + X-Soft memory foam topper may be too soft for your needs… or it may be that it is sagging from use and the heavier parts of your body sink in too much compromising your alignment. You introduced a new variable which is the chiropractor adjustments, I always recommend in and of the home testing to change only one variable at a time as much as possible this is the most accurate way to pinpoint how the change affects your sleep.

I thought I was having hot flashes the latex topper was sooo hot.


From your description, I think you may have meant …. that the “memory foam topper was sooo hot”. Latex, generally, is one of the most breathable and "temperature neutral" of all the different types of foam materials but the firmness of a mattress and how much you sink into it can also affect sleeping temperature as well. Memory foam (with or without gels) will generally be the least breathable and most insulating of the foam comfort materials, so the temperature can be an issue. If you do end choose something with memory foam, you’d want to make sure that the memory foam layer on top is very thin so that don’t sink in too deeply.

I feel like memory foam is also quite hot! I like to keep my blankets on as I sleep better with weight on me.


Although generally speaking temperature issues are easier to monitor it is still a complex subject. Keep in mind that the topper will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than other materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin. There are many variables involved (including your room temperature and humidity, your sheets and bedding and bedclothes, your mattress protector or any mattress pads you are using, where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range, or experiencing “hot flashes”). Also, some people can sleep warmer on mattresses that most people are generally fine with ... there is more in post #2 about tracking potential cause(s) for sleeping hot and temperature regulation issues(at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) and the posts it links to that that you may wish to read. There is more in post #2 about many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress/sleeping system in that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

I was also looking into the sleep ez system you have listed on your site... do you think this type of bed would be more accommodating to my pain issues.
Because this bed is a split king does that eliminate the motion transfer you feel with latex? When I test the no split latex bed in the store they feel like a bowl of jello. I do think the soft talalay latex feels nice though.


While Sleep EZ mattresses are of excellent quality and they are also one Mattress Expert members of the site …the only way to know for certain whether any specific mattress will be a suitable choice that provides you with both the right comfort/pressure relief and support/alignment will be based on either …
1. your own careful testing or your own personal experience when sleeping … or …
2. A detailed conversation with SleepEZ themselves as they know their systems and how they work for different people with different needs better than anyone else. I’d certainly make sure to give them a call…they have excellent customer service and whether you end up buying from them or not they are always glad to share their wealth of knowledge.

Keep in mind that different people have very different needs and preferences for a mattress in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own personal preferences). While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to confirm a choice or to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress….in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions (You can read more it in this post about what mattress is best for me? ).

Because this bed is a split king does that eliminate the motion transfer you feel with latex? When I test the no split latex bed in the store they feel like a bowl of jello. I do think the soft talalay latex feels nice though .


Latex is not a motion transferring material. It is also not a material which sends "waves" across the surface. You can confirm this by lying on any latex mattress in any store (as long as it really is latex and not just a thin latex layer mixed in with something else). The "jello" feeling with latex ... may be a result of certain constructions where a person sinks in too deeply into the mattress or the way that latex (or any highly resilient and elastic material) returns energy when they move. You can try a latex pillow and lie on your back and then turn your head side to side you will feel it springing back from behind as your head moves away from the part it was resting on and how it "helps" your head to move. This is a subjective perception or "feel" that is part of individual preference but has nothing to do with motion transfer. Even this can be adjusted by changing layer thickness or the softness/firmness of the layers.

In general, there is more about motion transfer in post #18 here . Memory foam is the best at motion transfer but latex, pocket coils, microcoils, buckling column gel, and even polyfoam are generally good as well but it will depend to some degree on the specific design of the mattress, on your relative weight ranges, and your sleeping style (such as how close you sleep together). Regardless of the type of mattress, some people that are more “motion transfer sensitive” opt to purchase two twin extra-long products versus a spit king mattress. There certainly will be less capacity for motion transfer with the items disconnected.

You are going the right way about selecting a mattress and I hope that your discussions with SleepEZ will lead you to find something that meets your needs for PPP, motion transfer, temperature issues.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 11 Jul 2019 12:47 by Phoenix.

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17 Jul 2019 19:05 #5 by DeAngelis
I am now looking at replacing my mattress. I am considering sleep EZ as I can customize my feel. I was told by a mattress dealer near me that talalay Latex is a superior product and not to get dunlap which is what is currently in my brentwood home mattress altho a very thin layer in my opinion. The local mattress store claims that Dunlap Latex is a lesser quality product with inconsistencies due to particle settlement. The mattress that the local shop sells is 2 inches of Poly foam with a 6 inch 28 ILD talalay support core and 2 inch 19 ild talalay with .75 inches of flex foam and 1.5 inches of wool that is quilted. When I initially lay on this mattress It feels firm to me and I needed to add a 3 inch wool topper to get the feel I wanted. but their softer model felt too soft and is meant for side sleeper only. When I asked sleep EZ they recommend the first 2 layers to be Dunlap Firm then Medium for support and soft Talalay for the top portion. Would you agree? It is so hard when I am told so many conflicting things. do the other mattresses stores just say this because they only sell Talalay? With Sleep EZ I have the option of each layer and want to make the correct choice. Is Dunlap Latex equally as good as Talalay? if I went with 2 layers of talalay latex and 1 dunlop would I be reducing the support of the mattress?

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21 Jul 2019 08:09 #6 by Sensei
Hey DeAngelis,

Thanks for the post. This has always one of our great discussions on this forum over the years.

When I asked sleep EZ they recommend the first 2 layers to be Dunlap Firm then Medium for support and soft Talalay for the top portion. Would you agree?


It's not really for me to say, but the latex build that Sleep EZ is recommending is very common and has been successful for thousands of consumers over the years. Sleep EZ is without question a latex mattress expert and has been making and selling latex mattresses for many years.

With Sleep EZ I have the option of each layer and want to make the correct choice. Is Dunlap Latex equally as good as Talalay? if I went with 2 layers of talalay latex and 1 dunlop would I be reducing the support of the mattress?



You can read about the differences between Dunlop and Talalay in these two posts and some of the associated links, its a lot of info but it will really give you the background on these processes:


General response difference between Talalay and Dunlop

more info about Talalay and Dunlop latex foam

Thanks,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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