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Any experiences with Springwall? (The Brick, Vancouver) Have low budget

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29 Dec 2019 14:11 #1 by MattressCavern
Hi, I'm new to this forum and I'm completely unsure on what I'm doing when it comes to mattress shopping. Can anyone help me out?

I basically need a new one, Full sized, and I've found some intriguing sales, but I have some concerns about the brand. I also have no idea if I'm a firm mattress type either. My budget is only $300-$400 for a mattress, so..I'm not certain on which one to get at that price. The sales I've been looking at only showcase Springwall, which has durability/sagging issues. These are the ones I've been looking at:

www.thebrick.com/products/springwall-tru...op-full-mattress-set

www.thebrick.com/products/springwall-pis...op-full-mattress-set

Does anyone have any experience with this brand and/or can offer insight with these mattresses?

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30 Dec 2019 23:09 #2 by Phoenix
Hi Mattress Cavern,

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

Does anyone have any experience with this brand and/or can offer insight with these mattresses?
www.thebrick.com/products/springwall-tru...op-full-mattress-set
www.thebrick.com/products/springwall-pis...op-full-mattress-set


I recognize that you are somehow “trapped” by your very low budget but even so, I would consider my alternatives carefully. I agree that the two mattresses you listed most likely have durability/sagging issues
• True North Huron Eurotop uses continuous coils for its support layer. Which means that coils are made from one long wire. While it can have some motion transfer issues for partner sleeping it could be a decent option for those on a low budget. The Pisa Eurotop uses pocket coils instead (which are much better when it comes to motion isolation.
• The Brick does not provide any of the specifications that would allow assessing these products to determine if there any weak links in terms of durability. Huron uses gel infused foam and egg-crate-shaped soy-based foam (unknown density and thickness) The downside of convoluted foam that has "peaks and valleys" is that it is often a less durable material compared to the same type or density of material in a solid non-convoluted layer. With higher quality foams such as latex this wouldn't be a durability issue but with lower quality/density foams such as polyfoam or memory foam that are already in the minimum density range that I would consider it certainly could be (especially in the upper layers of a mattress vs the deeper layers of a mattress). They don't list the specs of their Pisa or Huron, nor how much or little "cheap" polyfoam on top but they should be able to give you the specs of the layers of each. If you post them here I'd be happy to give you my opinion as to which may work best for you.

Typically, the weak link of a mattress is almost always in the use of low-quality materials in the comfort layers and if you don't know the specifics of what is inside your mattress you have no way to identify any weak links in the mattress or make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses. When assessing any product, also be sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

Generally giving into a sense of urgency because of "sales" may do more harm than good when it comes to suitability. Sales come and go and in my opinion, many of them are mostly fake and are about the illusion of saving money than they are about reality. While it's not possible to make a blanket statement about sales because each retailer or manufacturer can be different, I would look at huge discounts as a red flag because manufacturers or retailers that sell good quality/value mattresses don't need to negotiate or have "fake sales" to create a false sense of urgency and they generally sell good quality/value mattresses every day of the year at prices that are already very reasonable.

The first suggestion I would have is to start with the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices ... and know how and why to avoid the worst ones which would include the major brands such as Serta or any mattress where you aren't able to find out the quality of the materials inside it.

While you are heavily limited by your budget, the only other advice I would give is not to be rushed into what you choose for the sake of sales and to look carefully at the suitability in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or how durable it will be compared to many mattresses in lower budget ranges.

I wish I could give you better news and/or guidance but unfortunately, I don't see many options with what they offer in this price range

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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31 Dec 2019 20:36 - 31 Dec 2019 21:09 #3 by MattressCavern

Phoenix wrote: Hi Mattress Cavern,

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

Does anyone have any experience with this brand and/or can offer insight with these mattresses?
www.thebrick.com/products/springwall-tru...op-full-mattress-set
www.thebrick.com/products/springwall-pis...op-full-mattress-set


I recognize that you are somehow “trapped” by your very low budget but even so, I would consider my alternatives carefully. I agree that the two mattresses you listed most likely have durability/sagging issues
• True North Huron Eurotop uses continuous coils for its support layer. Which means that coils are made from one long wire. While it can have some motion transfer issues for partner sleeping it could be a decent option for those on a low budget. The Pisa Eurotop uses pocket coils instead (which are much better when it comes to motion isolation.
• The Brick does not provide any of the specifications that would allow assessing these products to determine if there any weak links in terms of durability. Huron uses gel infused foam and egg-crate-shaped soy-based foam (unknown density and thickness) The downside of convoluted foam that has "peaks and valleys" is that it is often a less durable material compared to the same type or density of material in a solid non-convoluted layer. With higher quality foams such as latex this wouldn't be a durability issue but with lower quality/density foams such as polyfoam or memory foam that are already in the minimum density range that I would consider it certainly could be (especially in the upper layers of a mattress vs the deeper layers of a mattress). They don't list the specs of their Pisa or Huron, nor how much or little "cheap" polyfoam on top but they should be able to give you the specs of the layers of each. If you post them here I'd be happy to give you my opinion as to which may work best for you.

Typically, the weak link of a mattress is almost always in the use of low-quality materials in the comfort layers and if you don't know the specifics of what is inside your mattress you have no way to identify any weak links in the mattress or make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses. When assessing any product, also be sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

Generally giving into a sense of urgency because of "sales" may do more harm than good when it comes to suitability. Sales come and go and in my opinion, many of them are mostly fake and are about the illusion of saving money than they are about reality. While it's not possible to make a blanket statement about sales because each retailer or manufacturer can be different, I would look at huge discounts as a red flag because manufacturers or retailers that sell good quality/value mattresses don't need to negotiate or have "fake sales" to create a false sense of urgency and they generally sell good quality/value mattresses every day of the year at prices that are already very reasonable.

The first suggestion I would have is to start with the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices ... and know how and why to avoid the worst ones which would include the major brands such as Serta or any mattress where you aren't able to find out the quality of the materials inside it.

While you are heavily limited by your budget, the only other advice I would give is not to be rushed into what you choose for the sake of sales and to look carefully at the suitability in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or how durable it will be compared to many mattresses in lower budget ranges.

I wish I could give you better news and/or guidance but unfortunately, I don't see many options with what they offer in this price range

Phoenix


Thank you for that! I'm not sure how to find out the specifications of the mattress, as requested, but I am wary of cheap materials being used in mattresses. What would be a decent price to purchase a decent mattress at? One that will be durable? I often read up online reviews/customers' experiences and even then, I'm not too certain about them. I dug around a bit and found something from Costco..I'm not sure if it's decent.

www.costco.ca/blackstone-25.4-cm-(10-in....oduct.100418500.html

Would spending $500, depending on mattress brand/materials used, if they're decent materials, be a good purchase? I don't want to go $600 for a mattress either.

I also found these:

www.thebrick.com/products/sealy-posturep...le-full-mattress-set

www.thebrick.com/products/sealy-posturep...op-full-mattress-set

www.leons.ca/products/kingsdown-caldwell...ss-and-boxspring-set

www.leons.ca/products/sealy-fog-firm-ful...riant=16137394683950

www.leons.ca/products/sealy-glittering-f...riant=16349720510510
Last edit: 31 Dec 2019 21:09 by MattressCavern.

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06 Jan 2020 00:03 - 06 Jan 2020 00:06 #4 by Phoenix
Hi Mattress Cavern.

I often read up online reviews/customers' experiences and even then, I'm not too certain about them.


You are correct to be wary of both “cheap materials” and “online reviews” for several reasons.
“Short-term” reviews are usually from people who review a product shortly after the purchase. While such a review can be useful for understanding how a company deals with their customers it can be very misleading when it comes to understanding if a particular mattress will be suitable for anyone else's particular needs and preferences… Consumers who review their newly purchased mattress are almost exclusively unqualified to render an educated opinion about the product and is usually more confusing than helpful as only they can feel what they feel on the particular mattress. This is misinformation is also amplified when the “review” sites then accrue this “data” and attempt to pass it off as homologated research. However, If you can wind your way through the ads from mattress companies featured on the site (which are mixed in to appear to be part of the article), you'll see a few tidbits of information that is accurate. I sometimes find it funny when a reviewer talks about the quality of a mattress when they have no idea about the materials that are in it. This is where the knowledge of the relative durability and the different characteristics and lifetimes of different materials can be very valuable. Even the cheapest materials can be used to make a mattress that feels amazing ... it just won't stay that way for long. How long the mattress retains the pressure relief, alignment, and feel that is "perfect" is one of the biggest issues in quality and value but is not really dealt with in the majority of reviews.

What would be a decent price to purchase a decent mattress at? One that will be durable?


As you state that you have “no idea if I'm a firm mattress type either” and looking at the array of mattresses you’ve listed I recommend that you first do a bit of testing to determine what you like in terms of mattress type and materials .... at least in the comfort/transition layer… It is not a good approach to go randomly hoping that the perfect mattress will suddenly materialize. It is rare to stumble over something that is just the price you are looking ….AND is a perfect match for you in terms of PPP ((Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) …. AND built with durable materials (which is an indicator of how long you’ll sleep on this mattress before having to change it for something else). As you are looking at a full-size bed around a $500 CAD your options reduced but there are still some options especially if you decide on an innerspring support layer with some good foams in the comfort/transition layer which are suitable for your BMI (weight range) This is why it is so important that you find or ask for the specifications of each mattress that you are considering and find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here If you want something durable, I would not consider any of the mattresses for which you are not able to find those specifications.

Again depending on your needs and preferences some mattresses that quickly come to mind in Canada in your price range would be:

Love & Sleep mattress from NestBedding
This high resilience foam mattress & cover from Memory Foam Comfort

Both listings are from our Trusted Members of the site which means that I think highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry

I'm not sure how to find out the specifications of the mattress, as requested, but I am wary of cheap materials being used in mattresses.


There is not so straight forward way and requires some perseverance if the product specs are not listed on their website. You can certainly call the retailer hoping to speak with a knowledgeable enough assistant who is able to share that information with you. A search on our Mattress Forum can bring up many results with comments, expert discussions, or consumers who share their experience with a particular product or its specifications from a reliable source.

As far as the mattresses you’ve listed, if you can find the specifications mentioned n the links above (layer thickness, density, and IFD.ILD) for each mattress you are looking at then we can let you know if there are any red flags.

The Blackstone Costco mattress you linked is a (10”) memory foam mattress made by Zinus and while you can see the layering and thickness the other meaningful specs about density and IFD are not listed. Zinus is a Chinese manufacturer that uses mostly low / mid-quality materials although they are CertiPur certified. They are most commonly sold under many brand names in big box stores and elsewhere. Whenever you see "green tea" you can assume the manufacturer is Zinus. I would also read about mattresses imported from Asia or China in post #6 with mattresses that may have been compressed for long periods of time in either shipping or storage before being purchased. A forum search on Zinus (you can just click this) will bring up more information and feedback about some of their brands and mattresses. Being sourced in China make this somewhat of a risky purchase IMO.

Generally, about the other mattresses, you listed... I would avoid the major brands or any mattress where you aren't able to find out the quality of the materials inside it no matter what your budget range. Also testing mattresses made by major manufacturers can end up doing more to confuse than to help because no matter how they feel in a showroom ... you are making a blind purchase and since you can't feel quality or durability all that happens is that you waste a lot of time testing mattresses that aren't worth buying but also can't be used as a reference point or compared to other mattresses. This is the reason for the first guideline in this article which suggests avoiding them completely (and the chain stores that sell them) The only exception I would consider is if I knew the quality of all the materials and layers and they were good quality materials and value which unfortunately you aren't likely to find.

Hopefully, the information in this reply will help point you in the right direction in your mattress search.

Phoenix

Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum
Last edit: 06 Jan 2020 00:06 by Phoenix.

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07 Jan 2020 07:59 #5 by MattressCavern

Phoenix wrote: Hi Mattress Cavern.

I often read up online reviews/customers' experiences and even then, I'm not too certain about them.


You are correct to be wary of both “cheap materials” and “online reviews” for several reasons.
“Short-term” reviews are usually from people who review a product shortly after the purchase. While such a review can be useful for understanding how a company deals with their customers it can be very misleading when it comes to understanding if a particular mattress will be suitable for anyone else's particular needs and preferences… Consumers who review their newly purchased mattress are almost exclusively unqualified to render an educated opinion about the product and is usually more confusing than helpful as only they can feel what they feel on the particular mattress. This is misinformation is also amplified when the “review” sites then accrue this “data” and attempt to pass it off as homologated research. However, If you can wind your way through the ads from mattress companies featured on the site (which are mixed in to appear to be part of the article), you'll see a few tidbits of information that is accurate. I sometimes find it funny when a reviewer talks about the quality of a mattress when they have no idea about the materials that are in it. This is where the knowledge of the relative durability and the different characteristics and lifetimes of different materials can be very valuable. Even the cheapest materials can be used to make a mattress that feels amazing ... it just won't stay that way for long. How long the mattress retains the pressure relief, alignment, and feel that is "perfect" is one of the biggest issues in quality and value but is not really dealt with in the majority of reviews.

What would be a decent price to purchase a decent mattress at? One that will be durable?


As you state that you have “no idea if I'm a firm mattress type either” and looking at the array of mattresses you’ve listed I recommend that you first do a bit of testing to determine what you like in terms of mattress type and materials .... at least in the comfort/transition layer… It is not a good approach to go randomly hoping that the perfect mattress will suddenly materialize. It is rare to stumble over something that is just the price you are looking ….AND is a perfect match for you in terms of PPP ((Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) …. AND built with durable materials (which is an indicator of how long you’ll sleep on this mattress before having to change it for something else). As you are looking at a full-size bed around a $500 CAD your options reduced but there are still some options especially if you decide on an innerspring support layer with some good foams in the comfort/transition layer which are suitable for your BMI (weight range) This is why it is so important that you find or ask for the specifications of each mattress that you are considering and find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here If you want something durable, I would not consider any of the mattresses for which you are not able to find those specifications.

Again depending on your needs and preferences some mattresses that quickly come to mind in Canada in your price range would be:

Love & Sleep mattress from NestBedding
This high resilience foam mattress & cover from Memory Foam Comfort

Both listings are from our Trusted Members of the site which means that I think highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry

I'm not sure how to find out the specifications of the mattress, as requested, but I am wary of cheap materials being used in mattresses.


There is not so straight forward way and requires some perseverance if the product specs are not listed on their website. You can certainly call the retailer hoping to speak with a knowledgeable enough assistant who is able to share that information with you. A search on our Mattress Forum can bring up many results with comments, expert discussions, or consumers who share their experience with a particular product or its specifications from a reliable source.

As far as the mattresses you’ve listed, if you can find the specifications mentioned n the links above (layer thickness, density, and IFD.ILD) for each mattress you are looking at then we can let you know if there are any red flags.

The Blackstone Costco mattress you linked is a (10”) memory foam mattress made by Zinus and while you can see the layering and thickness the other meaningful specs about density and IFD are not listed. Zinus is a Chinese manufacturer that uses mostly low / mid-quality materials although they are CertiPur certified. They are most commonly sold under many brand names in big box stores and elsewhere. Whenever you see "green tea" you can assume the manufacturer is Zinus. I would also read about mattresses imported from Asia or China in post #6 with mattresses that may have been compressed for long periods of time in either shipping or storage before being purchased. A forum search on Zinus (you can just click this) will bring up more information and feedback about some of their brands and mattresses. Being sourced in China make this somewhat of a risky purchase IMO.

Generally, about the other mattresses, you listed... I would avoid the major brands or any mattress where you aren't able to find out the quality of the materials inside it no matter what your budget range. Also testing mattresses made by major manufacturers can end up doing more to confuse than to help because no matter how they feel in a showroom ... you are making a blind purchase and since you can't feel quality or durability all that happens is that you waste a lot of time testing mattresses that aren't worth buying but also can't be used as a reference point or compared to other mattresses. This is the reason for the first guideline in this article which suggests avoiding them completely (and the chain stores that sell them) The only exception I would consider is if I knew the quality of all the materials and layers and they were good quality materials and value which unfortunately you aren't likely to find.

Hopefully, the information in this reply will help point you in the right direction in your mattress search.

Phoenix


All the info you've provided me with is very useful. It sounds to me like every major retailer, like the Brick, Leon's, Costco, Ikea, Sleep Country, etc. all boast about these "sales" to get consumers to purchse it in a timely manner that will boost their profit. As it is, it also seems like those stores use cheap, low-quality materials/components in their mattresses from what I'm understanding and if they don't provide further specifications on anything then it sounds like they're hiding the fact they're using low quality.

Saying that, I've found an alternative mattress store I might try out. I think they allow the customer to customize their own mattress and at a more affordable price compared to major retailers. I think they're a local factory direct manufacturer.

Problem is, I have no idea how I should go about customizing a mattress. My BMI, surprsingly, is 14.1.

So, saying that, I think a density foam (polyfoam) of 1.8lbs is mid-density. Is that something I should go for or something a bit heavier? With a memory foam density of 3lbs? I'm not sure which foam is higher quality over the other though. I know latex is best, but I don't know if I can get that for $500. What would you suggest I go for in terms of layering/thickness, IFD.ILD? I just don't know about prices because I'd need it to be around $500.

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07 Jan 2020 14:53 #6 by Sensei
Hey MattressCavern,

Thanks for your question :). See that you and Phoenix have been discussing your new mattress shopping journey and hope you are finding the feedback useful.

I was checking out your mattress comparison process, from the earlier posts you have mentioned interest in a full size mattress, a budget (approx.) $500 and that "you have no idea if I'm a firm mattress type either." You also provided a number of links to mattresses you had questions about regarding durability, materials and specifications, all important details to research when determining what mattress is the best choice for your budget and in terms of PPP ((Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences), good work!

…I've found an alternative mattress store I might try out. I think they allow the customer to customize their own mattress and at a more affordable price compared to major retailers. I think they're a local factory direct manufacturer. Problem is, I have no idea how I should go about customizing a mattress. My BMI, surprsingly, is 14.1.


Just curious regarding other local manufacturer/ showroom visits, have you had a chance to demo and compare any full size mattresses in your price range? You did mention Costco but didn't see what others you may have tested. Also, did you consider Phoenix's suggestion regarding TMU Trusted Members NestBedding Love & Sleep mattress and Memory Foam Comfort High Resilience Foam Mattress & Cover ? These TMU members should be accessible in your area and would offer excellent hands-on support in helping you make the best choice for your personal PPP preferences. And should you decide to purchase from one of them, they do offer our consumer subscribers a bit of a discount for participating in the forum ;). Thanks for your updates and let us know how things go.

Cheers,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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07 Jan 2020 17:31 #7 by MattressCavern

Sensei wrote: Hey MattressCavern,

Thanks for your question :). See that you and Phoenix have been discussing your new mattress shopping journey and hope you are finding the feedback useful.

I was checking out your mattress comparison process, from the earlier posts you have mentioned interest in a full size mattress, a budget (approx.) $500 and that "you have no idea if I'm a firm mattress type either." You also provided a number of links to mattresses you had questions about regarding durability, materials and specifications, all important details to research when determining what mattress is the best choice for your budget and in terms of PPP ((Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences), good work!

…I've found an alternative mattress store I might try out. I think they allow the customer to customize their own mattress and at a more affordable price compared to major retailers. I think they're a local factory direct manufacturer. Problem is, I have no idea how I should go about customizing a mattress. My BMI, surprsingly, is 14.1.


Just curious regarding other local manufacturer/ showroom visits, have you had a chance to demo and compare any full size mattresses in your price range? You did mention Costco but didn't see what others you may have tested. Also, did you consider Phoenix's suggestion regarding TMU Trusted Members NestBedding Love & Sleep mattress and Memory Foam Comfort High Resilience Foam Mattress & Cover ? These TMU members should be accessible in your area and would offer excellent hands-on support in helping you make the best choice for your personal PPP preferences. And should you decide to purchase from one of them, they do offer our consumer subscribers a bit of a discount for participating in the forum ;). Thanks for your updates and let us know how things go.

Cheers,
Sensei

Thank you! I actually haven't had a chance to demo the onces I provided links to just yet. Mostly because I haven't decided what I want to do at this point. Either taking Phoenix's suggested mattress choices (HDR and love & sleep mattress) or the ones I showed in the link. I just don't know what do because I'd love to get the love & sleep one, but that one costs $800.

I'm also considering some from Sleep Country..will have to visit the store to see first though..cause I don't know what they put in the mattresses in terms of materials and components.

How much is the discount, may I ask?

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07 Jan 2020 18:30 #8 by Sweet Dreams

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10 Jan 2020 11:01 #9 by MattressCavern

Sweet Dreams wrote: TMU discounts vary, Nest Bedding's for example can be seen here:
https://www.themattressunderground.com/list-all/latex-all-latex/item/nest-bedding.html
All current TMU members are listed here along with their discounts:
https://www.themattressunderground.com/the-underground/our-trusted-members.html


Ah, sadly, even with those discounts for nest bedding, it's still too expensive for me.

Does anyone know if customizing a mattress is better instead? Thinking about doing that in a way where it meets $500.

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13 Jan 2020 13:57 #10 by Sensei
Hey MattressCavern,

Does anyone know if customizing a mattress is better instead? Thinking about doing that in a way where it meets $500.


I can see from your earlier Post #5 , you mention "customizing a mattress" here:

I've found an alternative mattress store I might try out. I think they allow the customer to customize their own mattress and at a more affordable price compared to major retailers. I think they're a local factory direct manufacturer. Problem is, I have no idea how I should go about customizing a mattress. My BMI, surprsingly, is 14.1.


Are you working with your local manufacturer for building your mattress and how is that going? Thanks for the updates :) .

Thanks,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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