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Soft (20 ILD) mattress topper still too hard for me and still slept hot (althoug 08 Jun 2020 10:18 #1

I am feeling so discouraged.

I am curvy. Not quite Jessica Rabbit, but seriously close (if she was 4" shorter). If a mattress is too firm and I am sleeping on my side, my outside hip and the inside waist get sore from being overstretched. My shoulder gets uncomfortable, too, sometimes falling asleep. Basically, my hip doesn't sink in and neither does my shoulder, so I can really only sleep on my back. This wakes me up, because my body doesn't "know," while I'm sleeping, that I shouldn't roll on my side.

I unfortunately have high-maintenance temperature issues. I set an infrared blanket to warm me up for the first hour of sleep. I can't fall asleep until I am warm. If I fall asleep without it, as soon as my temperature drops, I wake up. If the sheets slip off my shoulder at night and my shoulder gets cold, I wake up. At the same time, I often wake up soaking with sweat later on in the night.

We use a mattress from a discount furniture outlet. I'm not sure the place still carries it, but I think these were the specs:
- 1" comfort foam
- 1 and 1/2" Layer Plush foam
- Lumbar Layer Memory Foam
- 1" fiber support layer
- 490 coil 13 and 3/4 gauge spring

We were using a 4" down topper. It flattened so quickly; it was great the first night, then flat. I'd have to un-make the bed daily to keep it fluffed up.

So I bought a soft 3" latex mattress topper (20 ILD, Dunlop, from Sleep on Latex, bought the cover, too) and tried it last night. My hip still doesn't sink in, neither does my shoulder; it is still quite a bit better than before, but I'm still in this C-shape on the bed if I try to sleep on my side. It is absolutely better than the down topper, but it still isn't comfortable. I was also sweaty last night! It may be that the infrared blanket doesn't breathe well and it is not the fault of the topper. My SO woke up stiff as well, although he just said he needed a quick stretch and it wasn't related. Either way, I'm so frustrated that this didn't work out as expected.

I was thinking about putting a topper on the new latex topper. Something softer than 20 ILD. I read about horsehair toppers today, which are wicked expensive, and I'm not sure what the ILD is. It does sound like "sleeping on a cloud," though, which sounds like it would help. It also sounds like it doesn't flatten like down. Is there anything else comparable? Any information on the softness of these? Either that, or I can wrap my waist and knees so they're even with my shoulders and hips!

I'm also wondering if I could do some kind of moisture-wicking sheets or PJs. I read that the sheets made of athletic material are not great, because they're hard to move around in.

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Soft (20 ILD) mattress topper still too hard for me and still slept hot (althoug 13 Jun 2020 21:06 #2

Hi Clock24.

Welcome to our Forum :)

I see why you feel discouraged in your attempts to fix your current mattress. People with an hourglass body shape typically have a hard time finding the perfect balance between pressure relief and neutral spinal alignment for all sleeping positions. To adapt a Jessica Rabbit’s saying “I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way” …. not too bad, just need a solution :)

You seem to have a good understanding of how your body shape affects your sleeping landscape. I don’t know how much you read since finding our site about the two main functions of every mattress
1. to keep your spine and joints inside the range of their neutral alignment in all your sleeping positions and
2. to relieve pressure by redistributing your weight across the surface of the mattress.
In your case getting a good match for your side sleeping position means that you may have trouble when you change positions during the course of the night. Some people with similar issues look into training themselves to sleep primarily on their back and others make sure that they focus on getting it right for their primary sleeping position and opt for zoned mattresses.

So I bought a soft 3" latex mattress topper (20 ILD, Dunlop, from Sleep on Latex, bought the cover, too) and tried it last night. My hip still doesn't sink in, neither does my shoulder; it is still quite a bit better than before, but I'm still in this C-shape on the bed if I try to sleep on my side. It is absolutely better than the down topper, but it still isn't comfortable. I was thinking about putting a topper on the new latex topper. Something softer than 20 ILD.


Glad to hear that the Sleep on Latex topper helped with the pressure points too bad it still needs fine-tuning. I'd give some time to your body to unlearn the old ways and relearn and adapt to the new sleeping environment. A “very curvy” profile calls for either zoning or thicker mattress, however adding another topper on the existing one may not solve the issues you are having. Thickness and softness are very related and work together, adding more thickness to an existing 14.5” mattress/topper combo may compromise needed support for maintaining neutral alignment. Assuming that you’ve read the tutorial post here before deciding your next step I’d start by looking at the relationship between alignment and pressure relief issues and later at the temperature microclimate that you are trying to address. (Note also that memory foam comfort layers change softness/firmness with temperature variations.)

There is more about primary or "deep" support and secondary or "surface" support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the "roles" of different layers in a mattress in In post #2 about firmness and support and in post #4 here may be helpful in clarifying the difference between mattress "support" and "pressure relief" and "feel" and it can also provide some useful insights into the reasons for pain and/or discomfort on a mattress.

Because your shape is much more curvy than flat, some parts of the body (hips/pelvis) weigh more than others and some parts (shoulders) are wider than others... good support/alignment means that parts of your body need to be "allowed" to sink in more deeply and that other parts of your body need to be "stopped" from sinking in too deeply so that the end result is neutral alignment of the spine and joints. To help with understanding this I always link Post #6 about sleeping posture and alignment which uses an example of floating in the air and slowly sinking onto the mattress surface to help you visualize this.

The goal is to have comfort layers that are "just enough" and no more in terms of thickness and softness to provide good pressure relief and fill in the gaps in the sleeping profile and support layers that are firm enough to "stop" the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too far.
I was thinking about putting a topper on the new latex topper. Something softer than 20 ILD. I read about horsehair toppers today, which are wicked expensive, and I'm not sure what the ILD is. It does sound like "sleeping on a cloud," though, which sounds like it would help. It also sounds like it doesn't flatten like down. Is there anything else comparable? Any information on the softness of these?


ILD is used to describe foams and gels, and not horsehair toppers. In case of foams, anything with an ILD of 12 or under is going to be considered “very soft.” From what you describe you need something that is both soft and breathable/moisture wicking. Lyocell (wood pulp), bamboo, linen, silk, wool, horsehair is all good moisture-wicking materials for bedding and will vary in perceived “softness.” . One caveat, horsehair as a topper will tend to compress a bit over time and is a bit of a firmer topper material. Wool is particularly know for its' heat and moisture-wicking properties so it may not be a bad idea to try a wool product. You may wish to read through this post about how to chose a topper.

I unfortunately have high-maintenance temperature issues. I set an infrared blanket to warm me up for the first hour of sleep. I can't fall asleep until I am warm. If I fall asleep without it, as soon as my temperature drops, I wake up. If the sheets slip off my shoulder at night and my shoulder gets cold, I wake up. At the same time, I often wake up soaking with sweat later on in the night.
I'm also wondering if I could do some kind of moisture-wicking sheets or PJs. I


As far as the sleeping microclimate goes, even though Latex, in general, is the most breathable and "temperature neutral" of all the different types of foam materials I’d keep in mind that the firmness of a mattress and how much you sink into it can also affect sleeping temperature as well. I agree that you also have to consider other variables that are involved in (including your room temperature and humidity, your sheets and bedding and bedclothes, your mattress protector or any mattress pads you are using, and where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range) and there is more about tracking mattress temperature regulation issues potential causes ~ Post #2 here (at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) and the posts it links to that may be helpful.

For moisture-wicking sheets, you may want to read this sheets/bedding thread
For moisture-wicking pajamas, here are some that aren’t made of synthetic or athletic materials:

Dreamsacks: Bamboo
Fisher’s Finery : Bamboo, Organic Cotton, Spandex
SleepyTime : Bamboo, Spandex

One you had the chance check out some of the articles and links provided we are always here if you have follow-up questions.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Soft (20 ILD) mattress topper still too hard for me and still slept hot (althoug 10 Apr 2021 09:16 #3

Clock24 wrote: So I bought a soft 3" latex mattress topper (20 ILD, Dunlop, from Sleep on Latex, bought the cover, too) and tried it last night. My hip still doesn't sink in, neither does my shoulder; it is still quite a bit better than before, but I'm still in this C-shape on the bed if I try to sleep on my side. It is absolutely better than the down topper, but it still isn't comfortable. I was also sweaty last night! It may be that the infrared blanket doesn't breathe well and it is not the fault of the topper. My SO woke up stiff as well, although he just said he needed a quick stretch and it wasn't related. Either way, I'm so frustrated that this didn't work out as expected.


hate to dig up an old thread, but i too had a similar experience with 3" 20ILD dunlop latex

my current theory isnt that it isn't soft, its that it's TOO soft, as backwards as it may be

basically, it's so soft that we are bottoming-out the latex, in turn it makes it firm. one of the downsides of dunlop latex is that when it does compress, the 'firmness feel' goes much higher since it is quite dense

i actually had an opportunity to lay on 2" 28ILD talalay and i find the experience much better. it's still very soft, and comforting, but since it has a bit of firmness to it, it doesnt travel as far, and doesnt 'bottom out'. and even when talalay bottoms out, since it is less dense than dunlop, it doesnt equate to being firmer in feel as quick. i also have a 2" 20ILD dunlop, and while i bottom out, it feels 'softer' since there is less latex to 'firm up', very odd to describe

the combination of less travel with the higher ILD, and less dense of talalay i think would be a worthy shot

i dont find these attributes between dunlop and talalay described as such in all my readings, and really just going based on personal experience. good luck, hope you found what you needed despite not getting much attention here on the forum

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