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Afternoon everyone. I also couldn't choose just "general questions", so I apologize. On my almost 5-year mattress nightmare odyssey. It started when my husband wanted to get a new mattress. We had always just bought our mattresses at Sam's Club. That one was a Vera Wang Eurotop mattress , slept fine, all night. Well, every single bed I've tried & researched, much of my search thru this site, has been a nightmare for me.
We currently have a Beautyrest Black Katarina Luxury Firm. I want to keep it, open it up & replace components, I just don't have any clue as to how I should start with that. The only thing I think I have figured out is that memory foam & latex DO NOT work for me. I will embarrassingly post the long list of mattresses we have tried & what they felt like to me.
Here it goes:
Leesa-felt like I was run over by a truck, incredible pain my whole torso & back.
Nest-Alexander Signature, medium. If I remember, that one had no edge support & was too soft?
Wink-don't recall
Charles P Rodgers Power Nano 2-took a very long survey thru "the old bed guy" & thought this would be the one!!!! It wasn't, it was so hard I was in pain everywhere.
Saatva, soft- too soft, my torso had no support, my ribs killed me
Sleep Master-Made locally near me- seemed not well made & too firm.
Sleep on Latex-tried both medium & soft, neither worked. Matter of fact, latex was the MOST painful to my entire body that I woke up in tears. I'd wake up in the middle of the night with muscles & limbs contorted in the strangest of ways. Latex did nothing but make me cry I was in such pain from sleeping on it & it wasn't just my ribs, or shoulders, was my entire body.
Beautyrest Black-First one was a Desiree luxury firm that we ended up trading for the Katarina luxury firm, which is what is still in my bedroom.
We have a FL condo, we have a Saatva firm there, it's too firm. Saatva's soft was too soft & hurt my ribs, the firm is too firm & hurts everywhere, they were kind enough to send me a "topper", guess what, it's made of memory foam.
On the beds that have been too firm. I have played with toppers, latex toppers, feather bed toppers, wool toppers, you name it.
Oh, we also tried the Personal Comfort Air mattress thinking we could adjust firmness & that would fix things BUT guess what the comfort layer is????? Memory foam.
Anyone here have any advice? Each one of these beds came from researching, reading lots of various reviews & articles, me just continuing to try to analyze & find something that works.
The closest thing has been the Saatva as they don't use memory foam, if they do it's just one tiny piece somewhere, but even then it's not the right firmness. I wish they would offer a "build your own" bed, I feel like if I could get an in between of their soft & firm, I'd be ok. That bed is in FL & I may call them & see if I open the top, if they'll send me some things.
The bed in NY is the Beautyrest, spent so much money on it & now that I see you can just open beds up & change components, that's what I'm hoping to attempt with some help from you all.
Thank you, so, so much for anyone that wants to help me tackle this.
Tracy, woman who hasn't had a good nights sleep in almost 5 yrs.

Hi Tracy.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum!

The number of mattresses you’ve tried is quite impressive. You would definitely “qualify” for what the industry termes as “serial returner”

In reading your account of your 5-year odyssey it looks to me like your shopping approach is missing some basic building blocks. Given that you don’t like memory foam and latex, you don’t have many options and I’d start by determining what type of materials you like, and understanding your support and comfort needs which can be determined only with keen observation of how your body reacts to certain bed features and materials, determining the alignment of your spine which is also dependent of the positions you sleep in. Also, you would need to be looking at the kind of pains you are experiencing and in what areas of your body. All of these will give you valuable clues. Nobody, no matter how qualified they are, can tell you what is good for you because there are far too many variables involved and they are not “you” to feel what you feel on a mattress. With each of your mattress experiments, you’d need to draw conclusions and see what worked and what did not and why. Otherwise, this returns cycle is hard to break as you clearly are you are not one of the lucky ones that can sleep just on anything.

I can sense your hope that a DIY may stand a better chance of success, I’d point out that designing and building your own mattress can be a long process of trial and error and can become frustrating as it involves a lot more knowledge of how different materials, layers, and components interact than many people suspect. Posts 15 - 17 here may be worth reading. Your descriptions of what you like/dislike, what feels firm/soft … are not easy to translate into the specifics needed to take a cause-effect scientific approach for building your own DIY. I would only go in this direction if your knowledge level and personal experience with different types of foams, mattress components, and layering combinations was well above average and in full awareness of the possible risks and additional expenses involved in the trial and error process. I would also try to stick with proven designs and use the same materials, layers, and construction as much as possible (including the cover which is often overlooked and can have a significant effect on the feel and performance as well as the cost of the mattress). I always advise that a good way to approach a DIY would be in the spirit of adventure where some “mistakes” are a given (No mistakes is a bonus)

If you are bent on going that route I would normally recommend working closely with a manufacturer who will be able to give good advice about all the different components (option 2 in the linked post) over using your own knowledge and separate sources to build your mattress (option 3 in the above-linked post) but for those who want to forge ahead with their own design anyway ... this will provide some options.

I would suggest reading our article (if you haven’t already) to help you determine your sleeping style, preferences, and statistics as well our Mattress Shopping Tutorial which discusses Posture and alignment, Pressure and relief, Personal preferences (PPP) and the about the basic functions of a mattress which could also help narrow down your preferences and clarify what it is you’re expecting from your ideal mattress.

There are companies that will work with you to customize a mattress or assist you with a DIY to get the level of support and comfort you are looking for. In our Trusted Member Listing, this includes:

- DIY Natural Bedding
- MFC
- Shovlin
- Sleeping Organic
- Texas Mattress Makers

I had a quick look at the specifications of the mattress that worked for you: the Vera Wang Eurotop appears to be an innerspring mattress with polyfoam comfort layers.

If a DIY or custom mattress isn’t something you’re looking to take on at the moment, I would suggest – coronavirus restrictions in your area permitting - testing innerspring mattresses with a mid-range coil gauge (the lower the coil gauge, the firmer the mattress) to see if you can find something similar to the mattress you previously enjoyed. You may find this article on finding a good mattress outlet in your area useful.

I hope this information helps you focus your search and identify the qualities you’re looking for in a mattress, ultimately leading to your best mattress selection.

Phoenix

Morning Phoenix,

As I mentioned, I am really embarrassed at the number of mattress's we've tried. If you could only have seen my face at "serial returner", I winced. I get it though. Every purchase has been thoughtful & done with reading & trying to figure out what is was about each mattress that didn't work & trying to fix it with the next one. I mean, I can't give up, I have to keep going until I find something, I can't spend the next 30 yrs sleeping this way.

As far as what we have available in our area for stores, it's just big box stores, furniture store chains. Man, when we chose the Beautyrest, I spent to much time at Sears testing all the mattresses, went back more than once. With every purchase, I was so hopeful that this mattress *was the one*. The Beautyrest is innerspring, but that memory foam right under the comfort layer! I think that's what's killing me & whey I wanted to try to replace that piece with a polyfoam. It does sound from what you say that idea may turn up to be a lot of effort & fruitless. I just didn't want to waste another bed. I turned to Saatva as they don't really have memory foam, but finding that perfect feel hasn't come.

You know, when we went to Personal Comfort & I saw that their construction was in a way that you could change the components, I thought that was the most genius thing I'd every heard of!!
I don't understand why mattresses aren't made that way. You can unzip & take off the comfort layer, you can change the inside. This seems like it would be an answer for a so many people.
If you could have some choice for the top comfort layer & then be able to *tweak* the inside with help! I feel like Saatva could help me in the way, I'd have to rip apart the top but they should be able to know how to get me between their soft & firm.

I'll be doing more reading on all the links you've given. The husband & I have realized that it might feel nice when you lay on it in the store for 10 minutes, but it's a whole different ball game when you actually sleep on it for 8 hours. It sounds to me we may actually have to travel elsewhere to find some suitable options for us since we are limited to the big box stores here.

I really appreciate the specific links you have provided & will read every bit.

Tracy

Yeah, dont feel bad at all for being a "serial returner" you've definitely tried a lot more than I have, I have been through 4 returns in the last year and on the hunt for my next attempt at good sleep. I am very upfront with the sales reps I talk to, letting them know what I have been through, and making sure they think it is worth my time and theirs to try their mattress. So if they say "yes we think you should try our product" I have 0 qualms about returning it when it doesnt work. In fact at this point I am annoyed with them when it feels like theyre just trying to get me to buy something. If theyre too eager to realize a return = no sale, thats their issue.

I wish you all the best luck! You've definitely found a great resource here on this website.

Thank you WTBSleepSev. I am one that does research. Every mattress has been thought out & researched before I try. I'm always really trying to figure out what it is that isn't working. Sold my house up north, back down south. Still need to tweak my south bed, started thinking about that today now that things have settled down. I'll let you know how it turns out. This is just so frustrating. Thanks!

Wow tlc5125 you've tried a lot of mattresses like me ☺ I think it's fun as long as you always have a solid/ dependable go to mattress which I have. I guess it wouldn't be so fun if you don't have something that works for you & it's causing you back pain and / or sleep loss. Now im on the stage of trying different types of diy mattresses with all different kinds of materials just for fun because I'm passionate about it not bc I'm not happy with my current mattresses. ☺

Phoenix,

"I had a quick look at the specifications of the mattress that worked for you: the Vera Wang Eurotop appears to be an innerspring mattress with polyfoam comfort layers."

How did you find the specs? I'd love to see them, I haven't been able to find them. You also mentioned I should look for a "mid range" coil, what gage would that be?

Tracy

Hi tlc5125/Tracy.

Vera Wang mattresses were relatively popular at the time but most of them, unfortunately, had significant amounts of soft lower density polyfoam and synthetic fibers in the comfort layers which of course over time caused impressions.

From your description, I wasn’t sure if you’ve had the Serta Vera Wang Latex or a hybrid. Either way, looking back on our forum I found some references on our forum that might find useful here : it has 2 layers of 2” egg-crate convoluted polyurethane foam over latex or over hybrid. You may want to watch this video that looks at Vera Wang's mattress "anatomy" of one of our site Trusted members (Mattress Makers)

Mattress Makers Local factory direct manufacturer in San Diego, makes a range of mattresses with many layering choices including latex (including organic latex), memory foam, and innerspring including custom builds. Pablo is the owner and if you call him, he’ll be able to help approximated the mattress you like. He is knowledgeable, open, and transparent about the mattresses they make and tell you the good and the bad about any of the name mattresses they performed “mattress anatomy” on. They have great quality and value and well worth including in your research. They are a multi-generational manufacturer that I think highly of as they have been building mattresses for 55 years and have been factory direct for about 30 years.

Good luck and let us know what you find from Pablo.
Phoenix

I wonder how close that is to the one I bought at Sam's Club, def wasn't anywhere near the $5k price point.

What would you consider a mid/softer gauge coil? You mentioned I could need that, you may be right.

Tracy

Hi tlc5125,

I wonder how close that is to the one I bought at Sam's Club, def wasn't anywhere near the $5k price point.

It is hard to say as I am not sure if you owned an all-foam Vera Wang. Typically, you can’t judge by the price alone as some retailers like Sam’s Club keep their markups low and others have a much higher price point for the same product and later have a sale event.
Do you know if your past mattress was a hybrid or an all-foam mattress? You still may want to contact Paolo at Mattress makers as he had quite of few “dissections” of popular mattresses in the past and may give you a little more input. It looks like you may be attempting to approximate that particular mattress and while it can be a good starting point … this approach may prove to be a futile exercise unless under the guidance of a manufacturer that knows the mattress and has some experience with it.

Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find or custom make another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely)
Matching one mattress to another one is not very reliable based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing). There are many variables involved in "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your personal preferences). I’d be seeking guidance from an experienced manufacturer or retailer, who would be the ones to best approximate a mattress feel based on all the specs and your personal needs and preferences you may provide.

What would you consider a mid/softer gauge coil?

Wire gauge for innerspring mattresses typically ranges between 12 and 19. The lower the gauge number the thicker the wire and the firmer the coil (I’d consider 12 gauge too firm for your needs). Even a 17-gauge coil if it has a narrower diameter, can act firmer than a 14 gauge of the larger diameter coils. The people in the industry I spoke with approximate a 17gauge narrower diameter to be roughly the equivalent of a firmer 13.5 gauge of conventional diameter coils.

All this can be a bit more technical than most people would want to know but generally, it has to do with how innersprings respond, deform, and compress under pressure. From your description, I’d avoid both a low gauge or a high gauge coil of similar diameter. I’d keep in mind that nothing works in isolation and the softness/firmness of the coil unit is not only gauge dependent but also of other factors such as height, pre-compression, number of turns, coil count, diameter, etc. So without getting into too much technicality I recommend keeping it in the midrange. Along with this, I’d also keep in mind that a support core that was softer and more conforming (higher gauge) would need less foam on top to create a similar feel and would be less specialized in each layer.

Phoenix