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A bit of DIY help! 10 Nov 2020 10:35 #1

First of all, I love this site. It's been the most helpful part of my mattress buying journey. Having said that though, I'm going the DIY route. Seems like a no brainer. I'll give a bit of info about myself so that you know where I'm coming from. I am a 180 lbs, 5'10 fairly muscular man with nasty lower back pain issues. I wrecked my back in the gym 8 years ago and it's never been the same. I am hybrid back and side sleeper but mostly sleep on the side on my shoulder with my legs sprawled out. Sometimes I wake up with the worst back pain, to the point where I will randomly throw out my back after getting out of bed. I sleep on a cheapo bed. I really think a new bed will help a lot. I will be putting together a 12 inch 3 layer latex bed with a memory foam topper. I prefer an extremely responsive bed that supports well. I am not a fan of being stuck in quick sand, which is why I will be looking into getting a plush and responsive open-celled memory foam as the top layer.

Currently my configuration will look like as follows from core bottom layer to comfort top layer (all layers will be 3 inches):
Firm or firm Dunlop
Medium Dunlop
Medium or soft talalay
3-4 lbs memory foam

Here are some questions I've got:

1. Where to buy the latex? I have been to the sites of several trusted members and their dunlop and talalay latex prices vary wildly. Even when they claim 100% all natural with the standard certifications mentioned on this site. The prices still vary quite a bit! Is there anything else I should be keeping in mind? Or just pick a site with the lowest prices with the certifications and run with it?

2. Mattress encasements - this seems to be a pretty big source of bummer for me. There seems to be a really limited selection of mattress encasements that sell direct to consumer. Arizona premium mattress seems to have custom made ones that have the standard feel of a mattress but I'm not interested in those. I would like a stretch cotton zip around cover. During my mattress selection journey, I went to test out tempurpedic beds and I had fallen in love. However, what I realized I was in love with this their insanely soft mattress encasements. After doing some research I have found that you can actually order some "replacement" tempurpedic mattress covers directly from them. Has anyone tried anything like this? Do you see any downsides? Feels like it would be a really cool way to complete my bed: www.tempurpedic.com/bedding/mattress-replacement-cover/v/3163/

3. Regarding the actual densities of the support layers in conjunction with the 3 inch memory foam I will be using. Would you guys recommend the bottom layer stay firm? I've heard people say that you're better off using 2x medium 3inch latex layers on the bottom and then using a soft layer of talalay latex above them. However, knowing that I'll be using a somewhat soft 3 inch layer of memory foam on top, would you suggest the top talalay latex layer be medium as well?

4. Last question regarding selection of the memory foam topper. I have narrowed it down to these two selections. I actually was set on the brooklyn bedding one until I tried the amazon one at a friends house. It's pretty nice, but wondering if anyone here had any experience with the brooklyn bedding. I really do want to find a fast responding high quality memory foam to tie it all together.
mattresstopper.com/products/4lb-ultimate-dreams-gel-memory-foam-topper?variant=28010974216272
www.amazon.com/dp/B01B3V50GI/ref=twister_B01B4VBOUS?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Sorry for the extreme verbosity of this post. Thank you so much for your help!!!!!!

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A bit of DIY help! 11 Nov 2020 13:30 #2

Update:

So I've decided on getting my latex on sleepez and this is the most pressing advice if someone could be so kind:

Trying to decide on the layering makeup of the mattress. Here are the configurations i'm trying to decide on. The configs are top to bottom:

config 1:
1. 3" 4lbs memory foam
2. 3" soft/medium talalay
3. 3" medium dunlop
4. 3" firm dunlop

config 2:
1. 3" 4lbs memory foam
2. 2" soft talalay
3. 2" medium talalay
4. 2" medium dunlop
5. 3" firm dunlop

To me, based on what I've tested in person, the memory foam topper on top of latex just feels best. What I'm really unsure of is if a soft talalay underneath 3 inches of memory foam is just not supportive enough. That's why config 2 is intriguing to me, seems like it may be a more dynamic in between rather rather than having to decide on a medium or soft talalay latex layer underneath the memory foam.

Also, do you see any pros or cons between 3x and 4x core/support latex layers?

Thank you guys so much!

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A bit of DIY help! 12 Nov 2020 14:32 #3

I understand you are looking for zippered stretch cotton mattress encasements. Perhaps I can help as I was also looking for the same thing.

Here are a few that I'm aware of:

1. DIY Natural Bedding Organic Knit Ticking: www.diynaturalbedding.com/product/knit-ticking-gots-organic-cotton/
2. An expandable version of (1): www.diynaturalbedding.com/product/expandable-knit-ticking/ (<-- This is the one I have)
3. Foam Order has several options here: www.foamorder.com/mattress/mattress-cover.html

I ended up choosing #2 because it was organic, pre-shrunk/machine washable, and allowed me to add another layer later if needs changed. I have only had it for a few weeks but am very happy with the material thickness/quality so far. It is very soft and stretchy.

Regarding the latex layers & configuration, I'd recommend reaching out to Sleep EZ via their online chat. I did when I was configuring our DIY mattress, and they were very friendly and helpful. Your body mass index (height/weight) will be an important consideration to any professional giving you advice in this space.

You also may want to consider buying the essential layers first, then adding on more comfort layers if needed. This could save you some money if it turns out that you don't need as thick of comfort layer(s) as you think. The expandable ticking I referenced above would give you the potential to increase your layer thickness later, or, you could wait to buy the encasement until after you have the layers sorted/finalized.

Good luck!
Emily

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A bit of DIY help! 12 Nov 2020 14:57 #4

Hi Gormeroth.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

Thank you for sharing your sleep statistics with us, as well as your history of back pain due to the gym injury. It must be unsettling to deal with on an ongoing basis for 8 years now and having it exacerbated by a “cheapo bed”.

As you’ve been doing some good research and found some solutions let’s “jump forward” to your second post and then loop back to any lingering questions from your original post.

You mentioned you’re getting your components from Sleep EZ. They are a Trusted Member of our site, we think very highly of them, their products, and their expertise in DIY mattresses!

While both of the configurations you are considering look adequate in terms of longevity and the feel you are looking for I'd pause and look a bit deeper into how this thickness and layering arrangement can be suitable for your sleeping positions , chronic back pains, and BMI, The density of the top memory foam layer is adequate for your BMI so It looks like you’ve read our Mattress Durability Guidelines already.

I’d be interested to know what guidelines you are using to come up with either of your configurations. Is this something you’ve constructed based on mattresses you’ve tested that you like, that you’re attempting to replicate? have you had any conversations with Sleep EZ regarding your specific needs/sleeping statistics?

As you suffer from lower back pain and you are primarily a side sleeper, I’d hesitate to use 6” thickness of comfort layers. Some cushiness will be also borrowed (secondary comfort/softness) from the 3” medium firmness third layer under as well. Given your chronic lower back pains, you'd need adequate support to maintain neutral spinal alignment, while also meeting your comfort needs. In general, a good starting point for a basic comfort layer for a side sleeper is 3". Then depending on weight, body shape, preferences, and the firmness of the support layers, go up or down from there. Most side sleepers will fall in the range of from 2" -4".

As you are buying layers from Sleep EZ I can’t recommend highly enough that you reach out to them and explain what you want to achieve and inform them of your condition so that they can guide you of what construction layer works best for you as they are much more familiar with their own materials and how they interact within a particular build than anyone else and they can use the information you provide them about your body type and sleeping positions, your preferences, your history on different mattresses, and the results of your local testing to make suggestions based on the "averages" of other customers that may be similar to you. Sleep EZ has a dedicated mattress expert forum on TMU where you can ask for support and they are extremely customer-oriented.

That said, the benefit of a DIY mattress is that if a layer isn’t working for you, it’s very easy to remove it or replace it with something else to fine-tune comfort/support to your needs.

To address your question regarding mattress encasements from your original post…First off, I’d hold off with purchasing one until the DIY layering is as close as possible to your needs and preferences. This is because you may find that the perfect layering combo for you is less than 12” and you probably won’t be able to return the encasement. I’d recommend that whatever direction you chose to go that you sleep on it for enough time so that you make sure that you are happy with the final construction.
I don’t have any personal experience with the tempurpedic mattress replacement cover, but as @ebs mentioned, most likely you can find many other similar products. As you seem to love the feel of the tempurpedic encasements, I do not see any reason not to purchase one that would fit your DIY construction. You will, of course, want to make sure it is large enough to fit all of your layers once you finalized your construction.

Looking forward to hearing more details about the project progresses. Good Luck!

Phoenix

@ebs Thanks for chiming in, great insights for a first-time poster! :)
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A bit of DIY help! 12 Nov 2020 15:43 #5

ebs - thank you so much! I will definitely consider that encasement. Super helpful!

And Phoenix, jeez, that is a lot of useful information. So, to clarify, I had a lot of preconceived notions before going in and trying my first latex bed. So, before that, let me start off by telling you what got me started on my mattress buying journey.

I first started out with my online mattress that is a standard spring mattress with a pillow top. My back pain is pretty infrequent, but frequent enough. I've slept on this for years. My only relief was to get a fairly soft wool style topper, and it has helped me. I remember many years back i owned a really crappy low density memory foan from amazon. It was okay for a while but I really couldn't stand the quick sand type feeling. I just sank too much and it felt too hard to move. So I took that off and really stuck with the wool topper I had for a while and just ignored the problems. Fast forward several years and now I'm about to be 37 and the back pain is at the point where it can be debilitating at times. I think this is something I need to fix in physical therapy. I am under no delusions that a new bed is going to magically fix these problems. However I think it can dramatically improve things. If anything, just so I can get a full nights sleep without constantly waking up.

A few months ago, I randomly went to a mattress firm with a friend and wasn't expecting to buy anything. I tried every bed out of curiosity and fell in love with a tempurpedic luxadapt soft. However, that love came with some hesitation. I move a lot at night. Even before I fall asleep. I start the journey towards total sleep by lying on one side, staying there for a few minutes, then flip over and do the same. This usually happens 3-4 times until I finally fall asleep. Sometimes I find comfort on my back, but it's just not as common. More often than not I will wake up on my back in the middle of the night, which is totally fine. Anyway, back to the tempurpedic luxadapt, i really liked it (price not withstanding) because of how well it conformed to my body and how soft it felt. But i HATED the lack of fast response and elimination of mobility. The comfort of how good it felt to lie still did not outweigh the discomfort of adjusting. Still though, I came closer than i care to admit to actually buying. Considering they were guaranteeing I could take it back within 3 months for a full refund. But I just couldn't pull the trigger. In hindsight, I am really happy I walked away.

This brought me to mattress underground and doing a ton of research. I kept reading that latex was the way to go but that I needed to *try* it first.. That's fair. I found a local place that specialized in natural mattresses. I was in there for hours and tried out everything and learned a lot. Here are the most important realizations. I like latex, and I like memory foam. But I LOVE when both are together. I love the support and stability of latex, I do. However, I do not like to lay completely on top of my mattress. I like to lay within. I like even more when I lay in my mattress when I have a somewhat fast response. When I was there and tried every latex bed, they felt good, but something was missing. Even the softest configurations didn't completely satisfy me because I was laying on top of the bed and they didn't feel totally comfortable to lay on my shoulder. A soft talalay certainly helped, but it didn't fix the problem and it was a little too bouncy for my taste.

Another thing I noticed was that 9 inches of bed just didn't feel like enough for me. Every 9 inch bed I felt off to me. This could be both a mental thing and the fact that most pure latex beds I tried were 9 inches. It just never felt like enough to me.

This lead me to the bed of my dreams. The Posh + Lavish Flux. It is an 11 inch latex bed with a memory foam top layer. According to their website, it's plush latex plus memory foam. I it felt so good I can't even describe it. Now, I have contacted them and all they could tell me was about the top layer being a 4lbs memory foam. It was a nice medium response memory foam. I'm assuming what's underneath is a combination of dunlop and talaly.

So I've been on a journey to recreate the feeling of this bed. But this guy isn't spending 5-7k on a bed. I want to buy high quality amazing latex that will last in the long run while supplementing it with a memory foam topper I can replace every few years. It's the small price to pay for total bliss.

With that said, to me, it has made the most sense to have a 5-6 inches of high quality dunlop (2 layers), and have a 2-4 inches transition support to comfort layer of soft talalay to a quality high density medium/fast responding memory foam. This is where I got 11-12 inches from. I really love the idea of having a talalay transition comfort layer underneath the memory foam.

I do want to be careful and heed your advice though. I am aware that if I go too soft and not support enough, I could have a misaligned spine and exacerbate my back issues. I am trying to find the healthy balance of having just enough support while giving myself the pressure relief I crave in a contour conforming responsive plush cloud. I know, it seems impossible. But that's what I'm trying to solve here. The Posh + Lavish flux is it though.

Hopefully that wasn't too long. I eagerly await your response. You're awesome!

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A bit of DIY help! 16 Nov 2020 12:02 #6

Hi Gormeroth.

It is very encouraging when readers like you have such a thorough approach and analysis of choice, construction, and materials without getting trapped in marketing stories nor in the showroom feel of a mattress. (which usually is different than when you sleep for a while on the bed of your choice). Also, it’s great seeing how you take into account the various intangible elements and contributors that lead to your selection (including the psychological aspect and the power of habit). Research well-done! With your X-ray vision is hard to get things wrong.

I am glad that you are considering physical therapy or chiropractic adjustments in addition to a suitable mattress. This can make a world of difference when it comes to back pain and a bad mattress can certainly aggravate any condition you might have.

Even though you didn’t ultimately purchase the Tempurpedic mattress, you are correct that in the process of considering it you gained valuable data points and confirmed what you liked and don’t like about it …. especially how easy it can be to be swept off your feet with a nice comfy feeling that you can always return it. Once a purchase is made, you’d be surprised how many people can put up with minor or not so minor discomforts that could have been avoided with a more thorough approach. Once the purchase is made, life can take over, and psychologically it is perceived as a done deal. Many people try to get used to things that don’t quite fit and “make it” work …. this is not to the best approach as eventually, any small issue may slowly grow.

I found a local place that specialized in natural mattresses. I was in there for hours and tried out everything and learned a lot. Here are the most important realizations. I like latex, and I like memory foam. But I LOVE when both are together.


Another important data points. I am glad that you were able to actually go to a local shop, test, get good advice.

This lead me to the bed of my dreams. The Posh + Lavish Flux. It is an 11 inch latex bed with a memory foam top layer… I have contacted them and all they could tell me was about the top layer being a 4lbs memory foam. It was a nice medium response memory foam. I'm assuming what's underneath is a combination of dunlop and talaly… I've been on a journey to recreate the feeling of this bed. But this guy isn't spending 5-7k on a bed. I want to buy high quality amazing latex that will last in the long run while supplementing it with a memory foam topper I can replace every few years. It's the small price to pay for total bliss.


It's great you were able to get the comfort layer memory foam density. Posh+Lavish doesn’t tend to provide much information about their mattresses, but this is a good starting point. As you well know every layer and component in a mattress can affect the feel and performance of every other layer and the mattress "as a whole". I’d be a bit careful with trying to replicate the feel of this mattress because all the layers and materials aren't the same and the design is different for each mattress, every difference between two mattresses can either have a cumulative effect or an offsetting effect that is very difficult for even a knowledgeable and experienced online manufacturer or retailer to predict how will play out. Most people only pay attention only to the ILD numbers of the foam layers and not to all the other specs or components that can make a significant difference in how a mattress feels and performs). … With this type of construction, I would normally suggest a thinner layer of memory foam over a thinner layer of latex so that you can notice more of the "feel" of both materials and there would be less risk of alignment issues.

… it has made the most sense to have a 5-6 inches of high-quality dunlop (2 layers), and have a 2-4 inches transition support to comfort layer of soft talalay to a quality high density medium/fast responding memory foam. This is where I got 11-12 inches from.


11-12’ mattress can perform very well given a good comfort/support match. You can see my thoughts about the effects of thicker layers or a thicker mattress in post #14 . With a 12" mattress ... the firmness would need to go up (than what you had for a less tick mattress) on average because thicker mattresses will "act" softer for most people. If you make changes to one of the specs (such as the layer thickness of the top layer) ... then you may also need to make other changes to the other layers to compensate.

Another benefit of a thicker matter is that more individual layers would also give you more options to customize the "feel" and performance of the mattress either before or after a purchase which can be a benefit for some people that need to do some fine-tuning of their mattress.

I do want to be careful and heed your advice though. I am aware that if I go too soft and not support enough, I could have a misaligned spine and exacerbate my back issues. I am trying to find the healthy balance of having just enough support while giving myself the pressure relief I crave in a contour conforming responsive plush cloud. I know, it seems impossible.


You seem to be well informed and know what to look out for in terms of specs, needs, and personal preferences. I am looking forward to your progress! The benefit of a DIY is that you can keep exploring and experiment until you find the perfect combination for your comfort/support needs, in a way that is hard to achieve with a “ready-made” mattress that also fits within your budget. :)

Looking forward to updates as you go.

Phoenix.
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Last edit: by phoenix.

A bit of DIY help! 16 Nov 2020 13:04 #7

Thank you Phoenix! Thank you for the kind words and invaluable feedback. I feel like this type of personalized advice and analysis should come at a monetary cost. So I'm really grateful to you and Sensei!

So it seems to me like there is no way of truly knowing at this point what combination is going to work the absolute best with me until I order all the layers in my bed and do some experimentation. I feel like my order should look like this:

1x 3" extra firm dunlop
1x 3" firm dunlop
1x 3" medium dunlop
1x 3" soft talalay
1x 2" soft talalay
1x 3" 4lbs memory foam
1x 2" 4lbs memory foam

Then find the best combination that works for me and return the ones that did not. This would be the ideal scenario. The problem is, the site I want to get all the latex from. sleepez.com, has a pretty inflexible return policy,. Only one return within 30 policy per customer. To be honest, I don't blame them from a business standpoint. Are you aware of any other sites with a really friendly customer that would allow such flexibility? I don't mind paying shipping n such. Perhaps I could just buy the dunlop there and talalay elsewhere. That way I would only have to return one layer from them as I am likely to have 6 inches of dunlop at the core.

Perhaps you fellows could tell me if this is the right approach? Nobody likes returns, but I feel like this is the dance one has to engage in to find the "perfect" mattress.

One last question about memory foam. Am I to understand that the responsiveness in memory foam is mostly about the density? I love the idea of a medium response while still having the high durability of the high density. This is what lead me to 4lbs density of gel infused memory foam with an open cell structure.

Thank you again! You guys are the *best*.

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A bit of DIY help! 16 Nov 2020 13:54 #8

One more thing. I think i can actually cut back on the amount of layers I'm buying here. The pure green 100% dunlop layers are soooo much cheaper than a talalay layer. If it's 2 or 3 inches of dunlop underneath a 2-3 inch layer of memory foam do you think *anyone* can honestly tell the difference? I feel like you can tell the difference between comfort layers of talalay and dunlop, but for a sublayer underneath memory foam, i'm skeptical.

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A bit of DIY help! 19 Nov 2020 00:37 #9

Hi Gormeroth.

You are welcome!

So it seems to me like there is no way of truly knowing at this point what combination is going to work the absolute best with me until I order all the layers in my bed and do some experimentation.


Short of visiting a showroom to try each and every possible combination of the layers you listed it’s unlikely that you’ll be able to determine with certainty what your perfect layering combo is. Next best thing (which would also lead to the minimum amount of returns should that be needed at all ) is to
• “think it through” based on your previous experience and history with different materials and layering and jot down a few possible combinations.
• I’d consult SleepEZ’s very experienced team (you may want to talk to Rodger or even Shawn if he is available). Have ready some clear notes to share with them. I’d make sure that that they help you select the deep support layers that are appropriate for your BMI, sleeping style and posture.
• Based on the results of this conversation I’d order only the 3 layers adding up to the latex thickness you decided (in this case either 9” or 8”), that in your opinion would have the best chance of success for your particular needs and preferences. I’d start with this as a baseline.
• Meanwhile I’d find and order the Memory foam layer. IMO 2” MF layer thickness is enough to give you the feel you are looking for.
• If you need to fine-tune for pressure point relief you can safely add more softness either by replacing the 2” soft Talalay with a 3” soft Talalay (if you opted for8” latex thickness) or exchanging one of the support layers for something softer.
• Once you receive all these 4 layers there are many ways to experiment with them to determine what your next step in fine-tuning is, should this be necessary.

I’m looking forward to that part of your journey and hearing how it goes!

The problem is, the site I want to get all the latex from. sleepez.com, has a pretty inflexible return policy,. Only one return within 30 policy per customer.


As you likely already know, Sleep EZ is a Trusted Member of the site and they have an extremely experienced support team. I am sensing that you’d find it hard to reach a decision unless you have the ability to compare all outcomes but once you explain what you’re up to I’d rely on SleepEZ’s advice, and explain that you are trying to not exceed the numbers of returns they have available. You may be surprised by the solutions they may suggest ensuring that you end up with a good match product.

If you chose to go down your initial path of ordering all layers, below are other resources for sourcing your latex layers:
Arizona Premium and DIY Natural Bedding as well as looking into Latex Mattress Factory and Sleep on Latex

Nobody likes returns, but I feel like this is the dance one has to engage in to find the "perfect" mattress.

Indeed, returns can become more of a problem than a solution if they get abused. This is why companies that focus on keeping the mattress price point reasonable have to limit the number returns. As you probably guess returns are not “free” per se, they are included in the price of a mattress and act more like an “insurance policy” for the consumer. The other side of returns is that for companies that look for volume sales regardless of product quality …returns can be also just about marketing because the cost of returning or exchanging a mattress or individual layers are all built in to the purchase price of a product that offers "free shipping" or "free returns" so the majority of people who don't return or exchange a mattress are the ones who pay for the minority that do. You can read more about exchange and return policies in post #25 here . Some manufacturers or retailers include the "real" return and/or exchange costs into the cost of their product and some manufacturers or retailers prefer to have them as a separate cost so only the people that return or exchange a mattress or a layer pay for it.

One last question about memory foam. Am I to understand that the responsiveness in memory foam is mostly about the density? I love the idea of a medium response while still having the high durability of the high density. This is what lead me to 4lbs density of gel infused memory foam with an open cell structure.


Quite the opposite, memory foam responsiveness is mostly independent of its density. However, density is directly related to MF durability. The denser the foam is the more durable In your case a 4lbs layer is sufficient for your BMI but you’ll most likely have an issue if you are looking for a responsive material. Memory foam is well known for its low responsiveness and low resiliency. This can be an issue for those who change positions often or are sensitive to the time it takes for the memory foam to conform to their new position as it can create short term "pressure" while it forms a new "cradle". Again, different types of memory foams will take shorter or longer to conform to a new position. This "time to compress" or "rebound" that changes with temperature is both part of memory foam's strength for some (creates a "stable cradle") and its weakness for others (doesn't conform to new positions quickly enough or feels too firm). Some people may also be sensitive to a lack of resiliency or "pushback" which allows them to change positions more easily with a little "help" from the mattress and helps to support the lumbar area.
Latex however It is very resilient (it returns a high percentage of the energy of compression instead of absorbing it like memory foam which has very low resilience) so it can enhance the "feel" of the mattress by making it more responsive and more adaptable to different body profiles and sleeping positions rather than the less responsive feeling of memory foam or the stiffer and less adaptable characteristics of polyfoam.

You did not mention if heat is an issue for you but some side effects of memory foam's greater sensitivity to heat can also lead to sleeping issues for some people. The deeper in a mattress someone sleeps, the more likely someone is to have issues with "sleeping hot".

I think i can actually cut back on the amount of layers I'm buying here. The pure green 100% dunlop layers are soooo much cheaper than a talalay layer. If it's 2 or 3 inches of dunlop underneath a 2-3 inch layer of memory foam do you think *anyone* can honestly tell the difference?


Depends if you are in the “Princess and the Pea” range of sensitivity, generally most people cannot feel a difference if the layer is deeper within the mattress. Talalay latex is most popular as a comfort layer because it can be made softer than Dunlop and is more consistent in its softness across the entire surface of the mattress. Dunlop, however, is also used in the comfort layers because of its firmer and less "lively" nature which is attractive to some who prefer its feel.

Looking forward to any additional progress reports.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

A bit of DIY help! 01 Dec 2020 13:46 #10

Thanks again Phoenix, this last post was helpful!

OKAY! So here are some updates. I had ordered and received all 4 sleeponlatex layers.

For a quick recap I received:
3 inch firm dunlop
3 inch medium dunlop
3 inch soft talalay
2 inch soft talalay

I have also ordered a few 2 inch 4-4.5 lbs density memory foam toppers to sit at the very top.

Now as you may have expected, the results are not quite what I thought they would be. I got both he 2 inch and 3 inch talalay toppers to see which thickness would do best under the memory foam at the top, and it turns out neither were all that comfortable with the memory foam. The memory foam at the top just really killed the feeling of the latex. I am finding that I'm definitely the princess and the pea type of sleeper. In fact, the best configuration I've found so far has been all 4 layers of latex without the memory foam. Meaning 5 inches of soft talalay above the 6 inches of dunlop. This was the most surprising because it still feels supportive while feeling mostly pressure relieving. Feels great for every part of my body except for my shoulders. Still feel some soreness on my shoulders.

So, it turns out I need a bit more pressure relief. I've ordered a 2 inch layer of serene foam from costco.. From what I'm reading, that will give me the instant pressure relief and plush softness that I crave. However, I know that with those 2 inches I may no longer need one of the talalay layers. In which case, I'll just return one of them. Probably the 2 inch talalay.

This leads me to a follow up to your princess and a pea comments. If I do go with the 2 inches of serene foam and decide to keep the 5 inches of soft latex. (maybe for my body type it's still totally supportive enough). woudln't it make sense to exchange the bottom layer of soft talalay for a soft layer of dunlop to save a boat load of money? Or, let's just say I decide to just stay with 5 inches of soft latex on top of the 6 inch dunlop core, does it really make a difference if all 5 soft inches are talalay? Or could I exchange the bottom portion of the comfort layer to dunlop to save the money? Judging by your previous responses, the further down you go with talalay, the less you really feel it's difference

I feel like I'm really close here. I just didn't expect to love the 5 inch layers of soft talalay so much (and still feel like some pressure relief is missing). It's a bit of a conundrum...

Also, do you have any serene foam alternatives for this missing layer of cloud-like pressure relief i'm going for on the top layer? Memory foam just feels too dense. At least the one's i've tried so far...

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