TOPIC:

Looking for some suggestions. A little bit about me....I’m a 6’ 2” 250 lb male that is a side sleeper. I’ve always preferred a firmer mattress in the past, but I’m willing to try something softer if it’s really better for a side sleeper like me...but I do feel like I’ll need additional support to prevent the lower back pain that I experience sometimes. I also prefer to sleep on top of a mattress rather than in a mattress....and I tend to sleep warm, so I’m thinking memory foam isn’t for me. I’ve tried it in the past and while it’s wasn’t terrible, I do remember being happy to go back to a standard innerspring mattress when I got my current bed which is a standard big box brand (can’t remember the brand) king sized mattress and box spring set that I bought 12 years ago. I’m likely going to be ordering something in the next few weeks, hopefully.

So far I’ve contacted a couple of manufacturers (Luma Sleep & Winkbeds) and from what I have seen here, I need to contact Beloit Mattress Company to see what they recommend for me (I’m within their Zone 1 delivery area in northern Illinois). What’s on my radar so far is the following (all king sized):

-Luma Hybrid Slumber System with the natural/Dunlop pillow top latex with medium firmness. Per their recommendation via email exchanges.
-Winkbeds The Winkbed in Luxery Firm or Plus. I received one essentially copy-pasted reply from them asking for further details which all of the details minus one was in my original email to them. I replied back to them with answers to all their questions (a couple times now) and haven’t heard back from them. I’ll give them til the middle of next week before I write them off....but it’s not encouraging to send an inquiry and they obviously didn’t read my first email and aren’t exactly responsive when I send follow up emails with answers to their questions.
-Using the mattress matcher on Beloit Mattress Company’s website suggest three different mattresses from them:
-Hybrid Rejuvinate 90th Anniversary
-Hybrid Restore 90th Anniversary
-Hybrid Easy Rest Classic

I’m not exactly sure what would be best for me. From what i understand, I don’t want memory foam since I don’t like to sink into a mattress and the fact that I tend to sleep on the warmer side. I also understand that a hybrid type mattress would be best for me since I’m a heavier side sleeper and the coils will provide the extra support I’ll need for spinal alignment. And that’s pretty much the extent of what I understand right now.

I’m kind of hoping that Winkbeds comes through because if I need to do an exchange it seems like they would be fairly easy to do this with (provided their customer service isn’t as bad as it appears right at this moment for me) since they are rather close to me and buying “local” is appealing. I’ve seen reviews of Luma Sleep that when it comes to do an exchange they can be difficult to deal with and unresponsive (I’m hoping that those were just impossible to deal with customers that left those reviews though). As far as Beloit Mattress Company goes...I really like that they are “local” to me but the main issue would be if something needed to be exchanged or modified I would have to take the mattress back to them in Beloit to get it fixed/exchanged. I just don’t have a vehicle that can transport a king sized mattress, plus I do work third shift....so doing anything during the daytime is going to be pretty difficult to be honest. I haven’t sent any inquiries to them yet...I didn’t learn about them until last night when reading through these forums.

In all honesty I doubt I’ll really have the need to exchange a mattress, because just about anything will be more comfortable than my current one right now. Plus, if I was able to sleep on the mattress that I had in the Navy when I was enlisted in the 90’s and 2000’s I figure I can sleep on just about anything, but when spending around $2k (this is around where I would like my budget to be on a mattress and foundation) I’d like to get it right.

So with all that said....am I on the right track and what would be recommended?


Edit: I sent Beloit Mattress an inquiry late last night as well. So we’ll see what they say.

2nd edit: I also sent an inquiry to Ghost bed (I see they are a preferred member here plus they have a decent military discount) to see if they would recommend as well.

Just as an update, I received replies from both GhostBed and WinkBeds yesterday. I haven’t heard back from Beloit Mattress Company yet.

Ghostbed suggested the GhostBed Flex

WinkBeds recommended the WinkBed Luxury Firm over the Plus for me. They thought that the Plus would be too firm for me since I’m under 300 lbs.

After doing some reading (Reddit) on both mattress manufacturers, there seems to be quite a few complaints for both WinkBeds and GhostBed concerning sagging after a somewhat short period of time for some people. One guy said his 125 lb daughter was even experiencing it as well. But then I read some people say they haven’t had an issue even after several years. So I just don’t know what to think.

So I’m hoping someone here with more knowledge than me about this can offer some advice and help steer me in the right direction. Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Hi Largefarva

I'm also in the market for a new bed and have been looking at the Winkbed, as well as forums for advice. I'm sort of near your body specs (6'0" Male ~210 lbs back/side sleeper). From what I've gathered about Winkbed hybrid reviews, a lot of the negative feedback regarding durability came from several years ago, where some users on here commented their mattresses used 1.5lb/cubic foot foam in several layers, which caused it to break down fairly quickly, despite being very comfortable. More recent reviews, however, say the company uses 1.8lb in both the soft and LF models (this was one review from someone who only posted that one comment in a thread in which someone else was told the foams were "between 1.5-2.0 lb, which isn't encouraging), but recent reviews also state the mattresses are hideously uncomfortable and entirely too stiff. Maybe this has to do with the change in foam types done to address durability issues, if indeed there was a change (their warranty did change around mid-2018 to only cover mattresses purchased after that date, so maybe there was a change in materials, maybe not). Either way, I'm not thinking the 2" of 1.8lb poly is ideal for heavier body types, and if lighter people are complaining about the poor pressure relief of the Lux Firm, I don't know what your experience will be with those springs sitting two inches below the surface. Have you looked at Bear Hybrid? Little softer but supposedly with good support from the deeper springs. They're not zoned, but it's a consideration. Same with Nest Alexander Hybrid, and with that one you get a zipper so you can flip/rotate the comfort layers, extending their life and allowing you to buy a new pad (I'm sure at great expense) when the time comes. I hear those wear out in about a year, which is unfortunate, though these people admitted they did not rotate their pads, and people who did rotate them say they lasted longer than that, about 3 years before needing replacement (though these were mostly average sized users on their medium, which is really soft, whereas you'll probably be going for firm, so who knows). It's eh, but at least you have an opportunity to save a little money, if only through spending more? It is, after all, America. If you don't want to deal with all that, you might consider latex. I’m not sure your price range or feelings about latex, but I can recommend my own setup, or at least a better version of it: You could shoot for a Talalay latex (~20-28ILD)-on latex (~40ILD)-on-springs setup, so you get the vertical “soft” real estate plus spring/latex support without bottoming out on the springs. I've had mine for nearly four years and there is a noticeable depression, but I also bought an inexpensive mattress with soft microcoils instead of a second latex layer, so that along with my rather prodigious rear-end likely had a good deal to do with it. Winkbeds has the Ecocloud, which costs a little more than the hybrid, but has more (IMO) legitimate support from the community than their flagship hybrid model, especially with regards to durability. If it's not supportive enough with a single layer of latex, even at a generous 4", you can order a topper from Foamorder, or even an entire latex mattress. Their prices are pretty good, though their mattresses are on the expensive side and don't really have a "premium" vibe, if that's something you care about.

Regarding other reviews for Winkbed, I think I know the reviewer you're talking about, who says his soft version from 2016 has held up perfectly. He has the karate picture, right? I don't think he has the hybrid. I think he has the Ecocloud, but I might be wrong.

Regarding some of the other positive reviews: In a more desperate time in my life, I worked in advertising, specifically guerilla web advertising. Some of these reviews contain the kind of language and structure we were instructed to use to create compelling fake posts on message boards. Specific details about fabricated family members, exclamatory statements, positive claims about one commonly negative-reviewed feature of the product, especially in a thread that is skewing away from the company's favor, and a loosely “narrative” tone e.g. “I bought this mattress in ______ and it’s been the best sleep of my life. My husband doesn't complain about back problems anymore and the mattress is just like new!”. Again, not a proud time in my life, but now I have a nose for it and some of these posts smell funny. A bubbly mother-of-two-and-half making her first post in the middle of a negative mattress message board thread and then disappearing? What’s her motivation for being here? I mean no offense at all to other members here who are legitimate mattress enthusiasts or who truly endorse a product, but these are first posts. What's not happening in her life that brought her here on a random Wednesday five months after her purchase? That's almost always an English major at NYU paying for books at five cents a word, or an employee/manager/manager's spouse at the company with a passive search enabled. People don't tend to go on message boards to comment about products with which they are satisfied and purchased a long time ago, unless they are making their own threads because they are so happy they want to share their experience with the community, and even then you mostly see those with new-new purchases. People come here because they want information, or they want to complain. In this vein, we might consider that the Amazon reviews for the Winkbed were guerilla advertising as well, only of the "take-down" variety. Or, and I think this is more likely, it might be that Winkbeds stopped selling on Amazon due to negative feedback over which they had little control, as opposed to their own website and from sponsored Youtube reviewers. The mattress is no longer available and Winkbeds no longer has a storefront on the site, though they did at one time, as can be seen in the “answered questions” portion of the page. Why take it down? Other than the reduction in overhead from paying Amazon per purchase, why remove their presence on the site? Other companies seem to do just fine still selling through their marketplace, if only for exposure. But then why not also take down the product with so many bad reviews? Mysteries abound.

In any case, it doesn’t look good for Winkbeds. The real takeaway though is that it's great to live in a society in which it's nearly impossible to tell if someone is trying to help you, soft-arm rob you, or sabotage their betters on the marketplace at your expense. Again, not a proud time in my life and maybe I'm projecting a tad. After I find a mattress, maybe I'll get fitted for a foil hat and start sending out apology letters to the people I've “guided” toward buying inferior products. I also don't want this admission of my own past moral turpitude to reflect poorly on the mattresses I've recommended. Nest and Bear and Foamorder and certainly Winkbeds are not paying me, I'm just considering your body type and sleep position. Of all of them, the Bear hybrid seems to offer the most for larger people, who seem to swear by it, and pressure map tests (however much from paid reviewers) tend to support these claims, though again I can't speak to the durability of their foams, and they are not replaceable unless you want to take an X-ACTO knife to the case and void your warranty.

Best of luck on your mattress shopping journey. Hope Mordor treats you right, I'm already feeling a little burned. But TMU has really been the "Eagles" of this whole experience. Great community and Admins.

Sorry, I just reread your OP regarding foam. If latex is on the table and you like an "on the bed" feeling, I would definitely consider layered latex on springs, with the top layer being about 2-3" with a thicker support layer and zoned springs, so it offers more support and it's easier to replace the top when it wears out. SleepEZ has a latex hybrid that's reasonably priced and available in Dunlop or Talalay, though it lacks zoned springs. ( sleepez.com/products/360-hybrid-pillowtop ). People also seem to swear by the company, so it's worth considering.

Thank you very much for those suggestions. I have looked at SleepEZ a bit and the Bear Hybrid very briefly so far. I’ll have to dig a bit more and check out more reviews of them as well as the Nest you mentioned. Glancing at the warranties of each, Bear and SleepEZ both only warranty indentions over 1.5” and the Nest looks like they’ll cover over 1”. Earlier today I looked at the same for both Luma and WinkBeds as well, and to be honest I think Luma might be my front runner so far. They cover anything over .75” (WinkBeds is at 1.5”).

All these reviews about body indentions and saggy spots in mattress has me concerned for sure. That’s what caused me so many issues while sleeping, until I realized I was sleeping in a crater earlier this year. Plus, being able to exchange just the topper (vs. having to swap out the whole mattress) with the Luma to change the firmness level has an appeal of it’s own.

I haven’t crossed the WinkBed Plus off of my list as of yet, but their customer service leaves something to be desired. Rather slow with responding and they seem to respond with canned replies. I had sent an email to them and after a couple of days I sent an inquiry via their online chat tool on their website in the lower right hand corner. They basically sent the same reply twice, spaced a couple days apart, even though I had replied to the first reply they sent me....I’m still waiting to hear back from that one. We’ll see if they respond or not.

Beloit Mattress must not want my business because they haven’t bothered to reply as of yet. So I’ve crossed them off my list already. Shame, because I do place a lot of value in supporting smaller businesses, especially when they are “local”.

Hey Largefarva,

Welcome to the Mattress Underground ! Thanks for your question.

Thank you very much for those suggestions. I have looked at SleepEZ a bit and the Bear Hybrid very briefly so far. I’ll have to dig a bit more and check out more reviews of them as well as the Nest you mentioned. Glancing at the warranties of each, Bear and SleepEZ both only warranty indentions over 1.5” and the Nest looks like they’ll cover over 1”. Earlier today I looked at the same for both Luma and WinkBeds as well, and to be honest I think Luma might be my front runner so far. They cover anything over .75” (WinkBeds is at 1.5”).

Congrats on your new mattress shopping journey ! Thanks for considering expert trusted members Sleep EZ , Luma Sleep and Nest Bedding , I think very highly of their design expertise, industry knowledge and customer satisfaction post-sell. For your research, you may find several of Phoenix's guides useful: "Finding a Great Mattress Outlet" offers basics for selecting a manufacturer to work with and questions to ask; "Mattress Specifications You Need to Know" features a component checklist for better understanding a mattress's component specs; and "The Basic Functions of a Mattress" explains the benefits of basic mattress education. Combined, these articles are good starting points and will help you find answers to many of the questions from your earlier post.

All these reviews about body indentions and saggy spots in mattress has me concerned for sure. That’s what caused me so many issues while sleeping, until I realized I was sleeping in a crater earlier this year. Plus, being able to exchange just the topper (vs. having to swap out the whole mattress) with the Luma to change the firmness level has an appeal of it’s own.

You are doing a good job with your research, Largefarva, and that will go along way in helping you avoid the pitfalls of mattress constructions that aren't suited for your preferences and slightly higher BMI . You may find Phoenix's "Five Steps to Your Perfect Mattress" and "Mattress Durability Guidelines" useful for evaluating materials and components of interest.

Also, please regard review sites with some caution. As we are fond of reminding consumers who visit the TMU forum, only you can "feel" what you feel on a mattress; your personal preferences, body profile, sleep positions, and comfort/ support needs are unique to you and cannot necessarily be served by someone else's experience on a given mattress. And as eluded to by @sleepdog, once you are able to spot suspicious review patterns, you can discern which reviews are truly reflective of a potential product/ customer service issue and which ones are just for the money. BTW, thanks @sleepdog for your excellent guest editorial on the difficulties created by paid reviews and for your "confession". Happy to hear that you've since atoned for your involvement in this skewed-for-dollars "influencing" process, .

Beloit Mattress must not want my business because they haven’t bothered to reply as of yet. So I’ve crossed them off my list already. Shame, because I do place a lot of value in supporting smaller businesses, especially when they are “local”.

Thanks too for considering TMU trusted member Beloit Mattress Company for a possible mattress purchase. If you have still time for more mattress comparisons, we will be happy to contact their team and let them know that you are awaiting response, they would want a chance to address your questions. While I can't speak to why you have not heard back from them, I do know that this holiday season has been especially difficult for the smaller manufacturers/ retailers. With all of the COVID related supply chain slow downs, periodic production shutdowns and increased holiday traffic, their smaller-scale resources have been stretched even more thin than normal and they are doing their best to service potential customers as well as new and existing ones. Let me know if that would be helpful and our support team will reach out to them.

Thanks ,
Sensei

Thanks for that reply as well. I’ve browsed through most of those links already and went through them again, and unfortunately a lot of it is Greek to me and I’m not really sure where to start. So pretty much all I’ve been able to do is just try to find reviews and get input from people similar to me to see if a particular mattress would make more sense for me than another.

Hence why I created this post, mainly was looking for input from people who are far more knowledgeable in this subject to see if there were mattresses that they thought would work well for me.

I think my two front runners are still the Winkbeds Plus and the Luma Sleep Hubrid Slumber System. I dug up more recent reviews on the Winkbeds Plus and they are all in agreement with each other that it seems like a durable and comfortable bed. The most recent review was from a couple months ago and it was a side-by-side vs the luxury firm Winkbeds mattress. He said it was a tiny bit firmer than the regular luxury firm model.

I wish I could find more reviews on the Luma Sleep Hybrid Slumber System. I really like just about everything I’ve learned about it, but what’s giving me pause is the topper being a separate piece, and the possibility that it might shift around. I don’t necessarily toss and turn all the time when I sleep but I do shift from one side to the other at least once or twice every time I do sleep. I really don’t want to have to fight with that....I get such poor sleep for the most part that even the smallest things can prevent me from actual sleeping. And to add to it I work third shift so I have to sleep during the day. It took me weeks to get the bedroom sufficiently blacked out so I can fall asleep easier. Yeah, I know that’s weird but it is what it is.

As far as Beloit goes, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. I would have to really love to hear what they had to say in order to go with them. The return policy of having to bring the mattress in to get changed or whatever is just impossible for me. I don’t have a vehicle that I can fit a king sized mattress into and the fact that it would take pretty much a full day to deal with it. They’ve shown their disinterest, so we’ll just leave it at that. No biggy for me by any means.

Hey Largefarva,

Thanks for your response .

I’ve browsed through most of those links already and went through them again, and unfortunately a lot of it is Greek to me and I’m not really sure where to start. So pretty much all I’ve been able to do is just try to find reviews and get input from people similar to me to see if a particular mattress would make more sense for me than another…Hence why I created this post, mainly was looking for input from people who are far more knowledgeable in this subject to see if there were mattresses that they thought would work well for me.

I get what you're saying, Largefarva; there will always be some uncertainty when making a comfort investment of this significance. What is most important is that you have gathered enough information to make a decision with confidence. You have worked hard on your due diligence for your research. Continue discussions with the manufacturers of interest and be clear on what you want in both pre-purchase and post-purchase expectations. While the TMU cannot make specific mattress recommendations for any consumer, we can help guide you along the path with the many years of Phoenix's research, trusted member advice and consumer subscribers' contributions.

I think my two front runners are still the Winkbeds Plus and the Luma Sleep Hubrid Slumber System. I dug up more recent reviews on the Winkbeds Plus and they are all in agreement with each other that it seems like a durable and comfortable bed. The most recent review was from a couple months ago and it was a side-by-side vs the luxury firm Winkbeds mattress. He said it was a tiny bit firmer than the regular luxury firm model.

The WinkBeds Plus and Luma Sleep Hybrid Slumber System are hybrid mattresses. Both have a zoned pocket coil support core (WinkBeds using 5-zone Elite Edge pocket coils, Luma Sleep's Hybrid using 3-zone firm Quantum Edge Combi-zone pocket coils). Winkbeds Plus is available in a single firmness: according to WinkBeds site, "Individuals 300 lbs and up will experience this mattress as a 6.5/10 while individuals 200 lbs and under will experience this mattress as an 8/10, 10 being the firmest." Luma Hybrid's mattress pillow top comes in a different firmness choices : plush, medium or firm; if the ability to change the upper comfort layer for a different firmness is a concern, you would have that option with their hybrid slumber system. Another difference from there is that the WinkBeds Plus uses their proprietary gel foam as upper comfort layers, while Luma Sleep uses either Dunlop or Talalay latex. Both companies offer generous sleep trial periods and free returns, so you would be covered with either in that regard.

I wish I could find more reviews on the Luma Sleep Hybrid Slumber System. I really like just about everything I’ve learned about it, but what’s giving me pause is the topper being a separate piece, and the possibility that it might shift around. I don’t necessarily toss and turn all the time when I sleep but I do shift from one side to the other at least once or twice every time I do sleep. I really don’t want to have to fight with that....I get such poor sleep for the most part that even the smallest things can prevent me from actual sleeping. And to add to it I work third shift so I have to sleep during the day. It took me weeks to get the bedroom sufficiently blacked out so I can fall asleep easier. Yeah, I know that’s weird but it is what it is.

Established in 2015, Luma Sleep is still something of a young company but backed by strong mattress industry leadership with years of component design expertise. They are one of the TMU's expert trusted members and have their own "Ask an Expert' forum space where you can view what TMU consumers have to say about their experiences.

I'm sorry to hear of your sleeping difficulties, Largefarva. That combined with your required day sleeping must be quite a challenge to deal with. Hopefully though, your new mattress will at least resolve some of the poor sleeping that you're experiencing. With your topper concerns above, the topper being a separate piece should not have shifting issues. It's cover is designed with the zippered edge underneath; the material joining the zipper and covering the underside is of a mesh/ skid resistant material favored by manufacturers using separate pillow top designs. Between having this type cover construction and the pillowtop being enclosed along with the support layer in a fitted sheet, you should not experience any noticeable shifting.

Looking forward to hearing which way you decide and good luck .

Thanks,
Sensei

Hi Largefarva,

While I don't have any experience with the beds you're considering, I did recently purchase a slatted bed foundation from Luma Sleep, and was very happy with the product, communication, shipping, and their customer service in general. I have also recently purchased latex slabs from SleepEZ, and was equally as happy with all aspects of working with them. SleepEZ has a chat feature on their site that I used to get their recommendations / thoughts on the purchase I was considering. The person I chatted with online was very helpful and friendly. And after I placed an order on their site, they followed up with me via a phone call to confirm that they understood my order correctly (several custom split latex slabs). That was a nice personal touch, I thought - and smart since a miscommunication when shipping something that large is a huge pain to reconcile on both ends.

Luma Sleep and SleepEZ have discount codes for TMU members, which you can find on their pages in the member directory.

Best of luck!
Emily

Just as an update, I just placed an order for the Luma Sleep hybrid slumber system with the medium firmness natural latex topper and their freestanding RTA slatted wood foundation. I was informed it would take about two weeks to be delivered so I’ll try to update after I receive everything.