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Brooklyn Bedding question 30 Jan 2021 07:33 #1

Hello,

I currently own (and am very happy with) a 4.5 year old Brooklyn Bedding mattress. The mattress I have is the "Best Mattress Ever" model in medium firmness which I believe is 100% latex and no longer appears to be available on the site. I am not looking to upgrade from my current queen size mattress to a king size mattress. Given that I am happy with my current mattress, would you recommend that I try one of the currently available Brooklyn Bedding options (it appears they have moved to a hybrid type system with an inner spring support layer and foam on top) which are also more expensive or is there an alternative mattress manufacturer with a product more similar to my current mattress in feel and support and coolness? Is there any concern with the inner spring design of the hybrid mattress with sagging over time? I have been very pleased with my existing mattress in that it has retained its overall shape and feel very well over the past almost 5 years.

I'll add to the above that I am 5'10, 170lbs, my wife is 5'4, 120lbs. I have a bad back (dealt with lower back pain, herniated discs, etc on and off for the past decade or so) so something supportive and helpful for back pain is key. I tend to sleep on my back and side, my wife tends to sleep on her side and stomach. Also, a mattress that sleeps cool is important as well as I tend to get warm as the night goes on (something our current mattress has been pretty good at helping with).

Also, can you recommend a mattress platform? Currently I have a platform bed but with the upgrade in mattress size I will either need to buy a new bed or simply buy a platform support (or a box spring?) .. if I am looking to keep the cost down on the actual bed side of it (and splurge more, if need be, on the mattress), what type of mattress platform would be ideal?

Thank you in advance for the help!

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Last edit: by noahsi.

Brooklyn Bedding question 31 Jan 2021 12:15 #2

Ok, a follow up after spending a few hours reading the various articles on this site. If I were to stay with Brooklyn Bedding for my next mattress I think the choice would be between the Bloom Hybrid and the Ecosleep Hybrid, which is a bit less expensive. Both of these mattresses come in medium firmness though the eco sleep has a "firmer" side. The construction is similar. The bloom has a 1.5" quilted wool and cotton top, 3" of 28 ILD Talalay latex, 8" inches of ascension x pocket coils, and 1" foam base (assuming poly foam?) whereas the ecosleep has (unknown depth) wool and cotton top, 1.5" 20 ILD Talalay latex, 1.5" of 24 ILD Talalay latex, 6" of ascension pocket coils (assuming lower coil count, no idea what the difference is between ascension and ascension x), 1.5" 32 ILD Talalay latex.

Given that the comfort later of the ecosleep is the same depth over the two layers but lower ILD will that one feel softer than the Bloom?

Also, I am having a hard time determining whether I should go with a hybrid mattress or a fully latex mattress with latex for the support layer as well. Any input or advice would be appreciated on that.

Is Brooklyn Bedding still considered to be a high quality and trustworthy manufacturer?

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Brooklyn Bedding question 31 Jan 2021 17:58 #3

Just to keep everyone up to date :-D I think I am leaning now towards an all latex mattress rather than a hybrid mattress. I actually went to the Nest bedding showroom this afternoon and tried out their Natural All Latex bed. The medium firmness seemed ok, better than the firm firmness. I have sent them an email to ask about the exact specifications of the Latex used, but I did think the medium was maybe still a little bit too firm, and the mattress itself seemed to be on the thinner side, i.e. it felt like it bottomed out a bit when I sat on the edge.

After a few more hours on these forums I've come across the Luma Sleep Latex Slumber System and the Saatva Zenhaven Latex. The latter seems to be 100% Talalay latex whereas the former is 2 layers of dunlop with either a dunlop or Talalay topper. I don't have the exact specs of the Saatva mattress. Both seem like good options. Does anyone on here have specific preferences one way or the other? With the Luma Sleep is it awkward to have 2 pieces to the mattress? Is it hard to fit sheets over that?

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Brooklyn Bedding question 01 Feb 2021 20:02 #4

Hi noahsi.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :)

It is always a downer when a mattress you know works well for you goes out of production. I was able to pull up the specifications for The Best Mattress Ever (you're correct, they're trying to rebrand their hybrid as their original "Best Mattress Ever" - I couldn't tell you why though). You are not alone. Many people liked the mattress and it’s too bad that they reworked and changed materials and specs.

The version you have (medium firmness) is 10" with 2" Talalay (28 ILD) followed by 2" Dunlop (32 ILD) and then 6" of a 2 lb convoluted polyfoam core (around 32 ILD). This is good startup info as to what works for you. Link to BBs archived discontinued Best Mattress Ever .

Given that I am happy with my current mattress, would you recommend that I try one of the currently available Brooklyn Bedding options (it appears they have moved to a hybrid type system with an innerspring support layer and foam on top) which are also more expensive or is there an alternative mattress manufacturer with a product more similar to my current mattress in feel and support and coolness?


It looks like you’d rather stay with “what you know” in terms of feel with an all-foam configuration. While I see no need for you to try and learn to love a hybrid mattress, Depending on your budget I would not disregard them altogether as there are no real downsides to using a pocket coil support Also Pocket could have many advantages in terms of longevity, temperature regulation, motion isolation, conform well to different body types and sleeping positions. etc. There is more about an innerspring/latex hybrid vs an all latex mattress in post #2 here.

Because every layer and component in a mattress can affect the feel and performance of every other layer and the mattress "as a whole" I’d say that you’d have a different experience with any of Brooklyn Bedding’s other lineups. If you’d like to venture into some trial and error experiments I’d make sure to find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to disqualify any mattress that has lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress.

This said because you know the ILDs/foam density of the configuration you have; it wouldn't be especially difficult to recreate this mattress yourself with DIY components in a King size - although I'd recommend moving to an all-latex system if budget permits as it's going to be more durable over time and respond better than polyfoam core.

A DIY is certainly an option and can get a bit complex but it is usually a rewarding option if approached in the spirit of adventure. You’d be able to tweak and adjust the mattress to your liking, and can do a side-by-side split if your partner would prefer a different feel or firmness. If that's the route you choose to take, there are experts and resources on TMU to help, if you chose to go that route.
Here are some slicked experts that can offer personalized guidance on how to do this whether you buy from them or not.

Deborah at DIY Natural bedding
Ken at Arizona premium mattress company is very skilled at helping consumers with their DIY
Shawn and Rodger at Latex Mattress company
And of course, SleepEZ can help with building a DIY as well.
You can also "build a mattress" on Flexus' website , with the option to buy the base recommended for the mattress.

Regardless of which mattress you choose, it's important that you have a detailed conversation with the knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer who, and provide them with good information about your body types, sleeping styles, general preferences and history, some general information about mattresses you have tested and done well with, and any other specific information or circumstances that could affect your choice of a mattress.

In your case, being able to give specific ILDs would be a great help to them in assisting in choosing or configuring your next mattress.

I am not looking to upgrade from my current queen size mattress to a king-size mattress


I am assuming you probably meant “now” instead of “not” ….otherwise the dots don’t quite connect given your normal range BMIs, II’s be surprised if you’d be already in the market for a new mattress after not even 5 years of life from the original version of the Best Mattress Ever. Correct?

Also, can you recommend a mattress platform? Currently, I have a platform bed but with the upgrade in mattress size, I will either need to buy a new bed or simply buy a platform support (or a box spring?) .. if I am looking to keep the cost down on the actual bed side of it (and splurge more, if need be, on the mattress), what type of mattress platform would be ideal?


This also comes down to the mattress you buy. The manufacturer or expert helping you configure your mattress will have recommendations - and in some cases, certain bases may void a mattress warranty, so you'll want to keep that in mind when you're speaking with whomever it is you choose to buy your mattress from. If it were me because there are quite a few variables depending on the type of mattress you end up with, I would separate the purchase of the foundation from that of the mattress and first ensure that your new mattress works as expected after you’ve had the chance to sleep on it for a while even if it means placing the mattress on the floor for a certain period before moving ahead to buying a platform/foundation. I am saying this because of the lower back pain you mentioned which may have been caused by improper comfort/support or a sagging sleeping surface or both.

I hope this helps. I look forward to any future updates or questions you may have.

Phoenix

Note added later: As I am intermittently working on posts today I didn't notice that you deepened your research. Good to see that you are on the same wavelength and discovered on your own some of the directions I've indicated in this post. Good Job!

You are quite right! Both Luma Sleep and Nest Bedding are very good options depending on the type of mattress you decide will best serve you. Both have very good workmanship and design and as you probably noticed they are trusted members of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe they compete well with the best in the industry .

With the Luma Sleep is it awkward to have 2 pieces to the mattress? Is it hard to fit sheets over that?

Many mattresses are designed this way to offer more options for fine-tuning comfort support. There is no downside to having a 2 pieces mattress. It would be the same as having a topper on a base mattress and fitting a 2 piece bed with sheets' is not more "awkward" than fitting a one-piece mattress.
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Brooklyn Bedding question 02 Feb 2021 09:12 #5

Hello Phoenix and thank you for the detailed response. Yes that was a typo in my until a post.. I meant “now” rather than “not”.

Thank you also for finding the specs of my current mattress.

I do not think going the custom route is what I want to do at the moment - I am already testing my partners patience with the deliberations on the mattress and platform!

That said, the luma all latex mattress is 6 inch 38 ild Dunlop support layer with a 2 inch ild 30 Dunlop transition layer topped by the customers choice of 3 inches of either 19, 28, or 36 ild Talalay or 3 inches of 24, 30, 38 Dunlop latex. Is it fair to say the version with the 28 ild Talalay topper would be pretty similar to what I have now? (Maybe a little softer)? The middle layer is a little softer in the Luma and I don’t know how the latex base support layer in the Luma compares to the foam in my current Brooklyn bedding mattress.

I did test out the nest all latex in medium and firm. The firm was much too firm and the medium felt a little firm. The medium Nest is 6 inch 36 ild Dunlop topped by 3 inch of 27 ild Dunlop with 1.5 inch of 1.5 lb quilting foam as the upper most layer. In the store the salesperson told me the medium was 30ild Dunlop on the upper layer but the 27 number is what I received over email from their customer support team. Do you think the Luma would be a bit more plush than the nest?

I didn’t realize I could simply place the mattress on the floor. The Luma website says the warranty can be voided if the support platform is inappropriate but they do not define what that means. Their slatted wood foundations have 14 2.5 inch slats placed 2.75 inches apart, but I do not particularly like the style of it. I don’t think my current platform bed is the issue with my back - I have some back injuries spanning 10 years ago and have intermittent residual soreness. I really just care about having something supportive.

Would something like this foundation be appropriate: www.tuftandneedle.com/basics/box-foundation/ ? This one the slats are 3.5 inches apart. I’m not sure if the extra space will make much of a difference or not.

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Brooklyn Bedding question 04 Feb 2021 22:19 #6

Hi noahsi.

I do not think going the custom route is what I want to do at the moment - I am already testing my partners patience with the deliberations on the mattress and platform!


Understood! Thankfully, many great options exist that are ready to take home and sleep on.

Is it fair to say the version with the 28 ild Talalay topper would be pretty similar to what I have now? (Maybe a little softer)? The middle layer is a little softer in the Luma and I don’t know how the latex base support layer in the Luma compares to the foam in my current Brooklyn bedding mattress.... Do you think the Luma would be a bit more plush than the nest?


This wouldn’t be “fair to say” regarding the mattresses you are looking at … or any other mattress where all the materials and components are not exactly the same. To recap you can see that the materials and thicknesses are different.
(10”) height (your previous discontinued mattress)
2" Talalay (28 ILD)
2" Dunlop (32 ILD)
6" of a 2 lb convoluted polyfoam core (around 32 ILD)

(11”) Luma all latex is
3" Talalay in either 19, 28, or 36 ILD or 3" Dunlop in 24, 30, or 38 ILD
2" Dunlop (30 ILD)
6" Dunlop (38 ILD]

And the Nest (medium) is
1.5" 1.5 lb foam
3" Dunlop (27 ILD)
6" Dunlop (36 ILD)

All of the layers of foam work together in a completed mattress, and there would be no way for me to tell how each layer of foam is impacting the comfort that you feel on each of these units, as only you can feel that. Also, thickness and firmness are interdependent when it comes to the sleeper's overall support/comfort. With a 12" mattress ... the firmness would need to go up (than what you had for a 10” thick mattress) on average because thicker mattresses will "act" softer for most people. If you make changes to one of the specs (such as the layer thickness of the top layer) ... then you may also need to make other changes to the other layers to compensate.

Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn't a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place). This being said you are on the right track by seeking guidance from an experienced manufacturer or retailer, who would be the ones to best approximate a mattress feel based on all the specs and your personal needs and preferences you may provide. post #2 here.

Because there are so many objective and subjective elements involved in matching one mattress to another and because different materials or components can have the same quality in terms of density and durability and even the same design in terms of layer thickness but still have different performance properties or "subjective feel" ... matching one mattress to another from the perspective of a mattress designer and from the perspective of a consumer can be as much an art as a science. Even if say 8 out of 10 people agree that one mattress is a close approximation to another in one or more ways in terms of feel and performance ... there will always be those who don't agree because their perceptions, preferences, or sensitivities are different.

The Luma website says the warranty can be voided if the support platform is inappropriate but they do not define what that means.


My recommendation would be to reach out and ask them. This is the best way to be sure you're not voiding your warranty. Generally, in the case of latex, the main criteria for most manufacturers concerns the distance between slats that should be no more than 3" apart (or preferably less). Placing it on the floor would qualify as a supportive surface to make sure that it doesn't sink through any gap.

Would something like this foundation be appropriate: www.tuftandneedle.com/basics/box-foundation/ ? This one the slats are 3.5 inches apart. I’m not sure if the extra space will make much of a difference or not.


Again, an all-latex mattress should not be placed on a slatted base with gaps larger than 3" apart (preferably less) The integrity of the latex is compromised and you may lose some of the supportive qualities you would otherwise benefit from on a proper base. I’d also make sure that the slatted bed has a center beam with good support to the floor (in sizes above a twin) so it doesn't sag.

I hope this clarifies your doubts.

Phoenix
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Brooklyn Bedding question 06 Feb 2021 08:26 #7

Hi, Did you respond to the question about Brooklyn reliability? I'm also trying to decide among Brooklyn, Winkbed and Nest Alex. Hybrid. I've tried Saatva, Casper and Dreamcloud and none of them were soft enough. We are mainly side sleepers; 5'5 130 lb and 5'10 165 lb. Looking for King size bed under $3K

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Brooklyn Bedding question 06 Feb 2021 15:10 #8

Hi gingerspice.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :)

We don't make comments on the reliability of specific brands, rather the durability of the materials relative to your sleeping positions and BMI.

It sounds like you are considering a number of mattresses and am not seeing the common thread among them in terms of the criteria you used for your selection.
Firstly, try to understand a bit more your needs and preferences. I am saying this as I am noticing that you selected a very wide range of mattress types and materials. Once you determine what type of mattress and materials you prefer and need you can use new criteria to eliminate and narrow your mattress search based on these criteria. Then you can apply the second and very important criteria of "durability" .. eliminate all mattresses that do not meet the durability guidelines for my BMI .... then a third "temperature regulation" e.g. eliminate all mattresses that have the potential to sleep hot... and so on.

All above is covered in more detail in the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices ... and know how and why to avoid the worst ones which would include the major brands such as Serta or any mattress where you aren't able to find out the quality of the materials inside it. When assessing any product, also be sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the mattress durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

I would also recommend this article that breaks down comfort layer recommendations by sleeping position .

Once you've had a chance to do a little more perusing to the links listed above so that you can establish what your main criteria for selection is, I would also suggest looking into the offerings of our Trusted Members who we think very highly of and believe they compete with among the best in the industry. They are transparent with their components and have your concerns as a consumer at heart and care more about your health and comfort than their bottom line.

I always advise before making any mattress purchase that you have a detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced online retailer or manufacturer and provide them with good information about your body type, sleeping style, general preferences and history, some general information about mattresses you have tested and done well with, and any other specific information or circumstances that could affect your choice of a mattress.

Phoenix
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Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Brooklyn Bedding question 07 Feb 2021 12:10 #9

Is it fair to say the version with the 28 ild Talalay topper would be pretty similar to what I have now? (Maybe a little softer)? The middle layer is a little softer in the Luma and I don’t know how the latex base support layer in the Luma compares to the foam in my current Brooklyn bedding mattress.... Do you think the Luma would be a bit more plush than the nest?


This wouldn’t be “fair to say” regarding the mattresses you are looking at … or any other mattress where all the materials and components are not exactly the same. To recap you can see that the materials and thicknesses are different.
(10”) height (your previous discontinued mattress)
2" Talalay (28 ILD)
2" Dunlop (32 ILD)
6" of a 2 lb convoluted polyfoam core (around 32 ILD)

(11”) Luma all latex is
3" Talalay in either 19, 28, or 36 ILD or 3" Dunlop in 24, 30, or 38 ILD
2" Dunlop (30 ILD)
6" Dunlop (38 ILD]

And the Nest (medium) is
1.5" 1.5 lb foam
3" Dunlop (27 ILD)
6" Dunlop (36 ILD)

All of the layers of foam work together in a completed mattress, and there would be no way for me to tell how each layer of foam is impacting the comfort that you feel on each of these units, as only you can feel that. Also, thickness and firmness are interdependent when it comes to the sleeper's overall support/comfort. With a 12" mattress ... the firmness would need to go up (than what you had for a 10” thick mattress) on average because thicker mattresses will "act" softer for most people. If you make changes to one of the specs (such as the layer thickness of the top layer) ... then you may also need to make other changes to the other layers to compensate.


Understood - so it seems based on this information the Luma may be a fair bit softer than what I currently have. To be clear I do not need (or even recognize the possibility as likely) to match my current mattress exactly, it is more to provide an indication of something that currently works ok for us.

The above said, after discussing with the folks at Luma I did decide to purchase their Latex Sleep System with the medium (28 ILD) Talalay top layer. I also decided to buy the foundation that they sell which has slats that are 2.75 inches apart, along with a metal bed frame with headboard brackets from Tuft and Needle which looked a bit nicer than the one's available on Amazon for not much less money. Luma offers a 100 night trial period as well as the option to swap the top layer for something different, so if it doesn't work there is little risk. I wouldn't have found them without this website so thank you again for the great resource!

Cheers!

Noah

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Brooklyn Bedding question 08 Feb 2021 19:35 #10

Hi Noah.

Great choice! Congratulations on your Luma purchase!:cheer:

As you know Luma Sleep is a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe they compete well with the best in the industry .

I look forward to any updates you might have once you have been able to sleep on the mattress and foundation for the recommended break-in time.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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