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defect or within spec? 07 Feb 2021 01:57 #1

received a new latex mattress and one of the layers had a couple divots/voids about the size of my thumbs (see attached pic). Not sure it will have a meaningful impact on performance but I wanted to know if this would be considered normal or poor quality control and warrant a request for replacement?


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Last edit: by lantern71.

defect or within spec? 10 Feb 2021 07:13 #2

Hey lantern71,

Welcome back to the forum :) ! Thanks for your question.

received a new latex mattress and one of the layers had a couple divots/voids about the size of my thumbs (see attached pic). Not sure it will have a meaningful impact on performance but I wanted to know if this would be considered normal or poor quality control and warrant a request for replacement?


My apologies on the delayed response, lantern71 :) . Congrats on your new latex mattress purchase! Thanks for including the pic of the latex layer that has your concerns. The small imperfections you mention should not impact the layers' performance or useful life in any way. An analogy that may be helpful is to think of the latex manufacturing process like a large-scale bakery specializing in bread. When making dozens of fresh loaves, while the ingredients are the same, the kneading and rising times are the same, there are subtle differences in the outcome of each loaf during the baking and resting process, resulting in small indentations here and there, and making each one slightly unique in appearance. That is why each latex core is hand inspected before leaving the factory. Every latex manufacturer has standards for testing final product to ensure optimal quality before shipment. While we are not privy to what those standards would be in terms of small imperfections and appearance, we do know that there are compliances in place to assure the stated ILD/ density measurements are correct and that product certifications are met.

Which latex mattress did you end up going with? How have you found it to sleep so far?

Thanks,
Sensei
Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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defect or within spec? 10 Feb 2021 12:13 #3

Thank you for the reply Sensei. I ended up going with the 10" natural latex from Flexus. They are nearby which makes them easy to work with should any layer exchange need to happen. Better safe than sorry.

As far as the sleep so far......overall a big improvement compared to the old mattress but I need a few weeks to see if I got the configuration right. After the first 2-3 nights I woke up with some lower back pain in the morning but that has mostly subsided in the days since. Maybe it's just the initial adjustment to a new mattress but I will be playing with the layers over the next couple weeks to arrive at a definitive answer.

In the meantime I would be interested in getting your take on my lower back issue. I am 6'1, 185 lbs, and mostly a back sleeper. Current mattress setup, top to bottom, is med talalay, med firm dunlop, firm dunlop. Mattress is currently on the floor.

As I mentioned, I woke up with lower back pain after the first couple nights, which quickly subsided in the morning after sitting up and stretching by trying to touch my toes. I am relatively comfortable when getting into bed at night and don't have an issue falling asleep. However, I have noticed that when laying on my back with legs straight, the lower back muscles are not as relaxed compared to when lying on my back with legs bent (see picture below).



when laying on my back with both straight and bent legs, the comfort layer appears to be filling in the curve of my lower back. Taken all together, my guess is that my hips are digging in a bit too much and I may benefit from increasing the firmness of the support layers. I intend to test this by swapping the dunlop layers. I have read several of the existing forum threads on related issues, but I would be interested is getting your general thoughts as to whether or not my thinking is headed the right direction?
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defect or within spec? 14 Feb 2021 11:57 #4

Hey lantern71,

Thanks for your response and updates :) .

I ended up going with the 10" natural latex from Flexus. They are nearby which makes them easy to work with should any layer exchange need to happen. Better safe than sorry.


Congrats on your new mattress purchase :) ! Thanks for your support of expert trusted member Flexus Comfort , I'm happy to hear that they are located near you and know that you can expect an excellent post-sale support experience from FC should a comfort exchange be required.

As far as the sleep so far......overall a big improvement compared to the old mattress but I need a few weeks to see if I got the configuration right. After the first 2-3 nights I woke up with some lower back pain in the morning but that has mostly subsided in the days since. Maybe it's just the initial adjustment to a new mattress but I will be playing with the layers over the next couple weeks to arrive at a definitive answer.


Your thought process has been stellar so far, lantern. Experimenting with the layers could change the comfort feel somewhat, so be sure and give each configuration some time for your body to adjust. Since your initial post regarded a question on one of the latex layers, we didn't discuss some of the pre-purchase basics of what is your current mattress, what size/ how old is it, what foundation are you using, and whether you plan to update your pillow scheme. Your body will need a 30 or so day sleep adjustment period to get used to the comfort and support of your new mattress, so some degree of lower back pain is not a surprise and should subside.

In the meantime I would be interested in getting your take on my lower back issue. I am 6'1, 185 lbs, and mostly a back sleeper. Current mattress setup, top to bottom, is med talalay, med firm dunlop, firm dunlop. Mattress is currently on the floor. As I mentioned, I woke up with lower back pain after the first couple nights, which quickly subsided in the morning after sitting up and stretching by trying to touch my toes. I am relatively comfortable when getting into bed at night and don't have an issue falling asleep. However, I have noticed that when laying on my back with legs straight, the lower back muscles are not as relaxed compared to when lying on my back with legs bent (see picture below).


You may find making some notes on your observations as well as taking some pics of how you appear on the mattress helpful for "seeing" what you are feeling. As a primarily back sleeper, you will need a slightly shallower cradle to provide pressure relief for filling the small of the back/ lumbar area where your body has a less curvy profile. A good starting point for a back sleeper is 2" of softer material on top of your mattress and then increasing or decreasing from there depending on other factors like weight, preferences, or other sleeping positions.

when laying on my back with both straight and bent legs, the comfort layer appears to be filling in the curve of my lower back. Taken all together, my guess is that my hips are digging in a bit too much and I may benefit from increasing the firmness of the support layers. I intend to test this by swapping the dunlop layers. I have read several of the existing forum threads on related issues, but I would be interested is getting your general thoughts as to whether or not my thinking is headed the right direction?


Good job on your forum research, lantern :) ! There are definitely a vast number of posts to sift through, but with a little time and patience, you'll find a treasure trove of similar experiments with great details on the efforts and outcomes of other consumers. Are you lying flat on your back as in this illustration or using pillows? If you are using pillows, what loft are they? Back sleepers need lower profile pillows for optimal neck, shoulder spinal alignment, My general thoughts are that if you document your layering experiments carefully, giving each arrangement sufficient time to track improvements or setbacks, and use this forum to seek advice either from Flexus Comfort or other trusted members, you should find the solution you seek. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the questions above regarding your previous mattress setup, there may be some clues of interest there as well. Looking forward to your updates and good luck with your layering experiments.

Thanks ;) ,
Sensei
Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

defect or within spec? 14 Feb 2021 12:38 #5

In the meantime I would be interested in getting your take on my lower back issue. I am 6'1, 185 lbs, and mostly a back sleeper. Current mattress setup, top to bottom, is med talalay, med firm dunlop, firm dunlop. Mattress is currently on the floor.

As I mentioned, I woke up with lower back pain after the first couple nights, which quickly subsided in the morning after sitting up and stretching by trying to touch my toes. I am relatively comfortable when getting into bed at night and don't have an issue falling asleep. However, I have noticed that when laying on my back with legs straight, the lower back muscles are not as relaxed compared to when lying on my back with legs bent (see picture below).


Just to build on what Sensei said, the pelvic tilt you are doing to relieve the discomfort tells me that you are likely having trouble with the dunlop layers not allowing enough travel for your bum area. Dunlop has less travel than talalay as loads increase so this can be an issue for areas like the shoulders, hips and bum that need to protrude into the mattress to provide support in other areas (such as the lower back). In your case you have a situation where your rear is being pushed up and your lower back is unsupported which can cause the pain/discomfort you are feeling. Naturally putting your legs up removes the spinal curve in the lower back and creates a situation where the lower back is supported again. I would suggest to swap out the next layer down for the same ILD but in talalay instead of dunlop then see how it worked for you.

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defect or within spec? 20 Feb 2021 15:14 #6




Your thought process has been stellar so far, lantern. Experimenting with the layers could change the comfort feel somewhat, so be sure and give each configuration some time for your body to adjust. Since your initial post regarded a question on one of the latex layers, we didn't discuss some of the pre-purchase basics of what is your current mattress, what size/ how old is it, what foundation are you using, and whether you plan to update your pillow scheme. Your body will need a 30 or so day sleep adjustment period to get used to the comfort and support of your new mattress, so some degree of lower back pain is not a surprise and should subside. [quote/]

my old mattress was a queen, double sided, innerspring with pillow top. The mattress was 10+ years old and the foundation was a box spring with metal frame. This served me well for many years but it was well past it's useful life and the pillowtop began to sag in the middle. This resulted in lower back pain in the morning and stiffness in the neck.

Good job on your forum research, lantern :) ! There are definitely a vast number of posts to sift through, but with a little time and patience, you'll find a treasure trove of similar experiments with great details on the efforts and outcomes of other consumers. Are you lying flat on your back as in this illustration or using pillows? If you are using pillows, what loft are they? Back sleepers need lower profile pillows for optimal neck, shoulder spinal alignment, My general thoughts are that if you document your layering experiments carefully, giving each arrangement sufficient time to track improvements or setbacks, and use this forum to seek advice either from Flexus Comfort or other trusted members, you should find the solution you seek.

I tried both with and without a low profile pillow on the new latex mattress. The result was the same. As Mattrebuild pointed out in the previous comment, bending my knees flattens the lower back, allowing for greater support and relaxation of the muscles. The sensation matches what you would experience if you were laying on a bare floor. While I originally thought my hips might not be sinking in enough, as Mattrebuild correctly pointed out, it appears I am actually not sinking in enough and need to soften the top layer(s).

For comparison I also tried swapped the top and middle layers of my latex setup (top to bottom med-firm dunlop, med talalay, and firm dunlop.) The result was increased lower back pain in the morning which I would attribute to sinking in even less on the med-firm dunlop layer. Again this leads me to believe I need to soften up my mattress.

When I head back to the Flexus showroom I intend to try 2 setups;
soft talaly
med dunlop
firm dunlop,

and


soft talalay
med talalay
firm dunlop

hopefully I find a solution.

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defect or within spec? 20 Feb 2021 15:24 #7

that second option should read

med talalay
med talalay
firm dunlop

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defect or within spec? 20 Feb 2021 15:30 #8

In the meantime I would be interested in getting your take on my lower back issue. I am 6'1, 185 lbs, and mostly a back sleeper. Current mattress setup, top to bottom, is med talalay, med firm dunlop, firm dunlop. Mattress is currently on the floor.

As I mentioned, I woke up with lower back pain after the first couple nights, which quickly subsided in the morning after sitting up and stretching by trying to touch my toes. I am relatively comfortable when getting into bed at night and don't have an issue falling asleep. However, I have noticed that when laying on my back with legs straight, the lower back muscles are not as relaxed compared to when lying on my back with legs bent (see picture below).


Just to build on what Sensei said, the pelvic tilt you are doing to relieve the discomfort tells me that you are likely having trouble with the dunlop layers not allowing enough travel for your bum area. Dunlop has less travel than talalay as loads increase so this can be an issue for areas like the shoulders, hips and bum that need to protrude into the mattress to provide support in other areas (such as the lower back). In your case you have a situation where your rear is being pushed up and your lower back is unsupported which can cause the pain/discomfort you are feeling. Naturally putting your legs up removes the spinal curve in the lower back and creates a situation where the lower back is supported again. I would suggest to swap out the next layer down for the same ILD but in talalay instead of dunlop then see how it worked for you.


mattrebuild I believe you are correct, I am not sinking in enough. When I return to the showroom I intend to try swapping the middle layer as you suggested which would give me two layers of med talalay over a layer of firm dunlop. My question is, do you think trying a softer layer on top would be helpful by itself, or is it the middle layer that should be the target so that I can ensure I am sinking in enough?

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defect or within spec? 20 Feb 2021 16:38 #9

mattrebuild I believe you are correct, I am not sinking in enough. When I return to the showroom I intend to try swapping the middle layer as you suggested which would give me two layers of med talalay over a layer of firm dunlop. My question is, do you think trying a softer layer on top would be helpful by itself, or is it the middle layer that should be the target so that I can ensure I am sinking in enough?


It really depends on your BMI and body shape. Your BMI looks to be around 24.5 so that's pretty midrange but if you are a back sleeper then your spinal curve and bum size will determine how well a combination will work for you. Flatter bums and spinal curves are much easier to fit than those who are more curvy. The reason for this is easy, you're asking the bed material to do alot more in terms of deflection and support to accommodate bigger curves or protrusions. Talalay provides more travel than dunlop which is why it works better in the upper layers where conformity is important while support is more handled by the lower layers (although all the layers do work together in a mattress). Unless you are having issues with pressure points (a softer talalay top layer will make everything sink in more) then I would try the medium talalay in the second layer first. With the new layer in place try and stick your hand under the small of your back while in your sleeping position to see if your bum is sinking into the mattress enough to provide support. If you can slide your hand in without much resistance then chances are you need more material deflection to relieve all your discomfort. Let us know how you make out.

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