>

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
The first place to start your research is the Mattress Shopping Tutorial
Select the Search Forum tab below to gain access to answers to many mattress related questions.
Select the Ask An Expert tab below to reach out to any of our Expert Members for guidance and advice.

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC:

Help me build my first DIY Mattress! 19 Jul 2021 09:43 #1

I need some help building my first mattress. I have narrowed it down to two high-level options and will need to refine this based upon expert input. Per Phoenix's post #2 in this thread, I am aware it's subjective, trial and error and I should build my bed based off something that exists in the market. I am planning on heading to a casper and big box store soon. I am not opposed to buying a kit, pre-made or other options.

What I am hoping for is some validation in my hypothesis while I actively test.

A)Hybrid - latex on coils
  • 6" Leggett and Platt Caliber Edge
  • 3" Dunlop Firm Talay (38ILD
  • 2" Talalay Soft Latex (19ILD)

B)All Latex
  • 3" Sleep on Latex Firm (46ILD)
  • 3" Sleep on Latex medium (34ILD)
  • 3" Latex Factory Medium (28ILD)
  • 2" Latex Factory soft (19ILD)

For both options, I am looking at expanding ticking so i can add layers if needed.

Sleepers
5'7" 165lb - me
5"4" 130lb - wife

Sleep Style
20% Side - 80% Back
Wife will occasionally rest on her stomach, or we'll be on our side from tossing and turning.

My spouse sleeps hot
I am considering latex over coils to help with airflow. Will a 6" coil base greatly help with cooling and airflow vs a full latex core?

Lower Back/Hip Pain
My current mattress is giving me lower back, hip pain from what feels like pelvic tilt. My butt sits lower than my shoulders and sits lower than my lower back.


Any input, ideas, suggestions would be recommended. Thank you!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by AndyC79.

Help me build my first DIY Mattress! 21 Jul 2021 14:59 #2

Anyone have anything insightful to say? Anything at this point would be helpful - even a hello or something.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Help me build my first DIY Mattress! 21 Jul 2021 19:32 #3

Hi AndyC79.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

Thank you for providing your stats and your details in such a well-organized post. It seems that you are well ahead as you have made good progress on your DIY adventure.

Good to see that you did plenty of initial research and that you are putting some safe fails in place for both options you are considering by “looking at expanding ticking so i can add layers if needed.” Keep in mind that the final veto will come ultimately from your body's interaction with the new sleeping system.

At your BMI a (11”) thick mattress is enough to meet all your needs in terms of support/comfort. Both your options have very good chances of working well for you. It is good to see that accounted for extreme differences in sleeping profile (stomach/side sleeping). You’ve been wise to choose a comfort layer that is a little thinner than your "deepest” sleeping position would normally require (typically side sleeping) and then choose a support layer underneath that helps you to sink in a little extra when you need it. A middle layer or "transition layer" can be especially useful for those who sleep in multiple positions and it can help you to sink in enough to help with pressure relief and also help keep you from sinking down too far and causing back issues. This said see my Note* a little lower on the page.

For your wife’s stomach sleeping position you may wish to review the guidelines in this Sleep Positions Article so that she avoids hyperextension in a swayback position that can cause back issues.

My spouse sleeps hot I am considering latex over coils to help with airflow. Will a 6" coil base greatly help with cooling and airflow vs a full latex core?


While the upper layers of a mattress are the most significant part of temperature and moisture regulation as it relates to the sleeper, the airflow and ventilation will occur from all sides of the mattress including the deeper support components. A hybrid latex mattress that is using a pocket coil core which is one of the most breathable types of cores.... followed by latex which is also the most breathable and "temperature neutral" of all the different types of foam materials. Latex allows for more airflow than any other foam and when changing positions on the mattress the air will be moved in and out like within an accordion. As the coils are at least 5” down into the mattress and much further away from your skin, they will have a lesser impact on temperature regulation than the comfort/transition layers.

There are many variables involved in the sleeping temperature including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials ... there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here .

In very general terms ... the layers and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow and temperature regulation than layers and components that are further away from your skin and softer mattresses will tend to be more "insulating" and for some people can sleep warmer than firmer versions of the same material.

Sleep Style 20% Side - 80% Back
Wife will occasionally rest on her stomach, or we'll be on our side from tossing and turning.
My current mattress is giving me lower back, hip pain from what feels like pelvic tilt. My butt sits lower than my shoulders and sits lower than my lower back.


Judging by the percentage of side sleeping (20%) and the “tossing and turning” you experience it may be that you switch to your side only temporarily when the body feels discomfort due to the pains you are experiencing. It would be useful if you could remember your sleep position history when your mattress was not sagging. Were you sleeping on your sides as well? If yes, what percentage.

Note* As your current mattress gives you Lower Back/Hip Pain due to misalignment your body is probably trying to compensate and makes you “toss and turn” onto your sides to give you a relatively good night's sleep. As you get a more supportive mattress that keeps your spine in neutral alignment for the course of the night, you may find that you’ll sleep less and less on your side which is another variable that you may wish to take into account.

As you are both combination sleepers and your wife is a partial stomach sleeper (which needs the firmest comfort option ) you may wish to consider a side to side split construction for your mattress.

I hope that information helps you out. I think you’re already on the right track and have a general idea of the types of components you need to look for in your new mattress based on your comments. I’ll look forward to learning about your progress and of course any other questions you might have.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by phoenix.

Help me build my first DIY Mattress! 22 Jul 2021 16:33 #4

Thanks for taking the time to write a thorough reply. Glad to hear i'm on the right path.

Out of curiosity, is there anything you would change, alter or add? I am used to sleeping on mattresses taller than 11" , in the 12."-13" range so naturally I am considering thicker or additional layers of latex.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Help me build my first DIY Mattress! 23 Jul 2021 19:38 #5

Hi AndyC79.

You are welcome! :)

Your current DIY has a good probability of matching both you and your wife’s support/comfort needs. If I were you and could afford a little extra cost, I would do a side-by-side split with your wife’s side being a bit firmer. Aa she is a lighter individual and sleeps prone she needs a more supportive sleeping surface to avoid Hyperextension. Also, because she sleeps hot, a firmer side will prevent her from sinking in too much and trap the heat in a deeper cradle. A zippered cover is almost essential for a DIY in case exchanging layers or rearranging is necessary.

At your BMI you wouldn’t need more than 11” thickness, provided that you dial in as close as possible on the support/comfort levels needed for bor you and your wife. Even though I can’t tell for sure what would be appropriate layer firmness, with your sleep and pain history in mind, I’d suggest that you opt for a comfort level slightly on the firmer side. I’d keep in mind that you can always fine-tune a firmer mattress to get a softer feel with a thin topper, but it is almost impossible to fix a softer mattress to get the correct support needed for keeping a neutral spinal alignment.

That said there is nothing wrong with having a thicker mattress if this is high on your list of "must-haves".

If you desire to increase your DIY's height, I’d keep in mind that Thickness and Softness work together. This means that you may need to adjust the firmness levels of comfort and/or transition layers of your DIY... Because thicker layers (or mattresses) can have a greater range of compression and are more "adaptable" ... it's also possible to use firmer top layers in a thicker mattress and still have good pressure relief because of the greater range of compression of the thicker mattress which can create a mattress with a firmer "surface feel" but that still provides good pressure relief and adapts well to the body contours.

One other benefit of a thicker mattress that has multiple layers that can be rearranged or exchanged is that there are more layering combinations possible for changing and fine-tuning the performance and feel of the mattress but in many cases, this wouldn't be necessary and in some cases can lead to a level of complexity that can make predicting how the layers interact more difficult (see post #2 here )

The overall thickness of a mattress (that is either "needed" or "preferred") would depend on the combinations of the layers and components necessary to achieve the design goal of the mattress to provide the PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) that can best match each person and their unique body type, sleeping positions, and preferences.

I hope this adds more food for thought and helps your DIY research in search of a good night's sleep.
Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Help me build my first DIY Mattress! 24 Jul 2021 10:50 #6

First I'd like to say how helpful this website has been. No nonsense information and extremely helpful.

My husband and I have been sleeping on a soft side waterbed with a 4" foam topper for 30 years. It has started to leak and difficult to repair. Though we're sad to give it up, we feel it's time to try a more conventional mattress. I had a latex mattress as a teenager (before the factory burned down) and would love to return to that. Given all the options for firmness and feel, we need some guidance. I am a 5'8" 160 lbs side sleeper, and my husband is a 6' 165 lb back sleeper. I have arthritis in my hips so soft is preferable, but I don't want something too soft that will make his back hurt. The waterbed served us very well, and we'd like to try to achieve a similar feel. Any suggestions you could make would be welcome.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Help me build my first DIY Mattress! 26 Jul 2021 19:18 #7

HI julejlm.

Welcome to The Mattress Underground Forum! :) and thank you for your kind comments.

You were very fortunate to get 30 years of use from your waterbed. As you can probably imagine there have been many changes in the industry since you purchased it and unfortunately most of them haven't been for the better ( see post #3 here ) so you’d need to proceed with some caution.

Liking a latex bed as a teenager is a good starting point but I’d take into account that as we age our bodies can change needs and perhaps, in your case, preferences. During the 30 years, you used your water/memory foam mattress your body got “hard-wired” into a certain feel and may have some trouble readjusting to a new sleep environment no matter how performant latex, as your material of choice is. Have you already tried a latex mattress? If not, I’d recommend you do so. Trying a few latex mattress configurations would also give you a good indication of your comfort/support needs and preferences. I’d recommend you keep good notes of your experiences as the feel of a latex mattress cannot be translated not the feel of a memory foam waterbed as there are too many variables involved

It's important when you are testing for pressure relief or alignment to make sure you lie on a mattress for long enough that your mind and muscles are fully relaxed. A mattress can feel very different when you are fully relaxed than it does when you are tense. For most people, this means spending at least 15 minutes on a mattress that you are seriously considering and focus on the relaxed feeling that you have when you are going to sleep.
The second key is to focus specifically on testing for alignment and its symptoms rather than comfort in all your sleeping positions.

The waterbed served us very well, and we'd like to try to achieve a similar feel.


Generally, two different types of mattresses are not easy to compare (if at all) in this case Latex vs waterbed feel is different and so are the intrinsic qualities of each of the components used in the bed’s componentry. There is little value in trying to approximate the performance you got used to in your old mattress. This is certainly possible if the manufacturer has enough experience and knowledge designs and builds a mattress that is reasonably close to the softness and support of another mattress that is known to them and this is confirmed with their own personal testing (and preferably the testing of a larger group of people like their customers as well) but you have many other options available to ensure suitability that I’d be tempted to suggest that you make a "clean break" with your old mattress and start anew looking for what you really prefer and need in a mattress that would last you for 10 years or so.

Post #10 here has a step by step process that can dramatically increase your odds of finding your "ideal" mattress that has better quality and value than anything you are likely to find with a major brand or typical mass-market outlet

I agree that Latex is a very good choice of material as it has both the ability to form a pressure relieving cradle more than other more commonly used materials, be supportive at the same time as it is the most resilient of all the foam materials (although springs are more resilient than latex and some types of latex are more resilient than others). Resilience is related to the ability of a material to store and return energy)

The first suggestion I would have is to start with the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices ... and know how and why to avoid the worst ones which would include the major brands such as Serta or any mattress where you aren't able to find out the quality of the materials inside it.

In the current market, it's a good idea to avoid the major brands because they use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than many of their smaller competitors although I would also avoid any mattress regardless of the name of the manufacturer where you aren't able to find out the quality and durability of the materials inside it to make sure there aren't any lower quality materials or "weak links" in the mattress (see the Mattress Durability guidelines here ).

You may have already read this, but choosing the "best possible" mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in (latex) that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then ...

1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial ) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP ... and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or "fine-tune" the mattress and any costs involved if you can't test a mattress in person or aren't confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight/BMI range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

3. Comparing your finalists for "value" based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

If you test out any particular items locally, I’ll be interested in learning of your reaction and any questions you may have about them, or other more specific questions that you might have.

Phoenix

Note* I will be changing your post and my reply to it to a different thread as there may be more visitors interested in transitioning from waterbeds to other types of mattresses.
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Help me build my first DIY Mattress! 27 Jul 2021 17:25 #8

Phoenix, wondering if you had thoughts or commentary on "zoned" latex support layers. Essentially a mattress comprised of a base, a support layer that is divided into 6-zones with differing ILD, all topped with a single layer of comfort latex. Each zone is tailored to body region and respective of sleeper. See attached diagram from Obasan for the layout.

In this situation, I would adjust the firmness/softness by area and also use a slightly firmer area for my wifes side.

I am wondering:
    <li> In this structure, is there a greater benefit or feel than a traditional split?</li>
    <li> How does one keep the foam blocks becoming out of place due to more discrete pieces?</li>
    <li> In the case of Obasan, do they truly have only 3 layers?</li>

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Help me build my first DIY Mattress! 28 Jul 2021 18:58 #9

Thanks for your response. We were able to try out some latex configurations at DIY Natural Bedding in Minneapolis. Amy was very helpful, and I think the visit was fruitful. Quite different from the waterbed, but I think you're right that we need to break from it. Because of our differing sleep positions we're considering a split layer either in the top or middle of the mattress. Love that we're able to do this. After years of sloshing and feeling every move we each made, our new mattress will almost make it feel like I'm sleeping alone!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Help me build my first DIY Mattress! 28 Jul 2021 21:58 #10

Sorry for the multiple comments. I’ve narrrowed it down to these three options. Wondering if anyone has any opinions.

Option A:
8” Quantum Edge Elite
2” Med Talalay, maybe dunlop is better?
2” Soft Talalay

Option B:
6” Caliber Edge
3” Med Talay
3” Soft Talay

Option C:
6” Quantum Edge Bolsa
3” Med Dunlop
3” Soft Talalay

any ideas appreciated! thanks.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
Moderators: NikkiTMU
TheMattressUndergounf
TMU
TheMattressUndergounf