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Advice on selecting a new mattress 26 Aug 2021 08:38 #1

I've got a TempurPedic Cloud Luxe Breeze mattress with adjustable bases that were purchased in 2015 and over the past year i've started waking up with lower back stiffness and pain. Reading up on this mattress it would seem this mattress is very soft, which in combination with the fact memory foam breaks down over time and the fact I gained significant weight for a few years (was up to 240 lbs) likely caused the mattress to no longer offer proper support. So while the mattress was great for the first 5 years or so, it just isn't cutting it anymore. Which is very disappointing considering we spent over $4,800 on the mattress. Hence we won't be spending that much on a mattress again. This was also my first experience with a memory foam mattress and Tempur specifically. I've lost 50 lbs this year and while I will likely have a range I don't plan on letting myself get above 190 lbs again.

A little overview on myself, my wife and our sleeping positions. I'm 6' tall 185 lbs, while my wife is approx 5'8" tall and weighs roughly 120 lbs. I likely spend more time on my back then my side, while my wife is primarily a side sleeper but also spends some time sleeping on her back. Neither of us are stomach sleepers.

It would appear based on reading up online that we likely would want to target a "medium" firmness mattress, however realize that since not all materials are created equal it likely isn't a one-size fits all metric. I would be looking for some guidance in this regard.

I'm also looking for advice on materials/brands.

Primary criteria for me:
    <li>A mattress that's durable (want it to last 7-10 years especially if we're spending over $2k)</li>
    <li>Soft enough to be comfortable but not too soft</li>
    <li>Firm enough to offer proper support for both back and side sleeping positions. Primary concern is enough support for me sleeping on my back since I currently experience soreness/stiffness while my wife has no complaints</li>
    <li>Preferably something that sleeps cooler then our existing memory foam mattress</li>
    <li>Minimize motion transfer as much as possible (willing to sacrifice some of this as other criteria above are more important)</li>
    <li>Ideally don't want to spend over $4k again</li>

I started looking at ConsumerReports which ranks the Avocado Green as their top mattress, however after reading a lot of member feedback I'm not so sure just how much weight I can give their ratings when selecting a new mattress. Reading owner reviews is difficult because no matter what mattress you look at there are always unsatisfied customers. Initially I was thinking I'd want to look at Sleep Number due to the fact it can adjust firmness and dynamically adjust firmness when you change positions throughout the night, but after reading more I'm not so sure it's quite as effective as it sounds. They are also fairly expensive. But would value perspectives from others whether I should consider them or not.

I'm leaning away from Tempur again simply because of the experience with our current mattress plus the fact that they sleep very warm. If it slept the same way as it did early on instead of losing support after only 5 years then I'd be willing to possibly overlook the heat retention.

Right now after reading a lot of reviews from many sources including NY Times Wirecutter, I'm leaning towards trying a Purple mattress, specifically the Hybrid Premier 3" mattress or the new Purple Plus (just released a week ago). We plan on trying one out at a store just to get a feel since it's such a radically different experience then people are used to. From what I've read people either love it or hate it, and many people grow to love it as they get used to it since its so different. What's drawing me to that mattress are that it appears to offer proper support without sacrificing softness, it's supposed to be durable, sleeps cool, and unlike memory foam that changes throughout the night as it heats up (and softens, loses support) it maintains a constant sleep characteristics like softness and firmness. In addition, due to the nature of the purple grid, unlike other materials where there is a trade off between firmness and support with Purple there isn't supposed to be a loss of support by going with a mattress that's softer (less firm). Plus I like the Purple 100 night risk free guarantee, where unlike many mattress makers and stores that have little wrinkles where they charge you restocking fees if you want to return it's totally 100% risk free (full refund if not satisfied after 20 days as long as it's returned within first 100 days). We'd order online vs buying in a 3rd party store like Mattress Firm for example as while they have a 120 night guarantee, if you want to return they charge you a $99 shipping charge plus a 20% restocking fee (plus if you want to exchange this also comes with a $99 shipping charge and 10% restocking fee).

The problem with our current mattress no longer offering the proper support is something I'd like to avoid in the future, especially after only 5-6 years, however this isn't likely something that will be apparent in the first 100 days so can really only rely on others experiences in this regard.

Others I'm considering are hybrid innerspring with latex comfort layers like the Saatva Zenhaven or Charles P Rogers Estate SE. But again I'm open to any and all suggestions. Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Last edit: by bobby2478.

Advice on selecting a new mattress 31 Aug 2021 08:31 #2

Hey bobby2478,

Welcome back to TMU :) ! Good to see you back on the forum and congrats on your new mattress shopping adventure! Thanks for providing the excellent situational analysis of your past sleep history, personal stats of both you and your wife, and several mattresses of interest for review. My apologies too for the delayed response, things have been quite active on the forum lately. On to your post….

I've got a TempurPedic Cloud Luxe Breeze mattress with adjustable bases that were purchased in 2015 and over the past year i've started waking up with lower back stiffness and pain. Reading up on this mattress it would seem this mattress is very soft, which in combination with the fact memory foam breaks down over time and the fact I gained significant weight for a few years (was up to 240 lbs) likely caused the mattress to no longer offer proper support. So while the mattress was great for the first 5 years or so, it just isn't cutting it anymore. Which is very disappointing considering we spent over $4,800 on the mattress. Hence we won't be spending that much on a mattress again. This was also my first experience with a memory foam mattress and Tempur specifically. I've lost 50 lbs this year and while I will likely have a range I don't plan on letting myself get above 190 lbs again.


I'm sorry to learn of your developing lower back stiffness and pain, and that your Cloud Luxe Breeze mattress no longer serves you well. Congrats are due for your 50 lb. weight loss; outstanding work :) ! Indeed, +$4,800 is a large price tag for a short-lived big brand experience. There are plenty of quality mattresses available at a much more reasonable price point.

A little overview on myself, my wife and our sleeping positions. I'm 6' tall 185 lbs, while my wife is approx 5'8" tall and weighs roughly 120 lbs. I likely spend more time on my back then my side, while my wife is primarily a side sleeper but also spends some time sleeping on her back. Neither of us are stomach sleepers.


As mainly a side sleeper, does you wife find her base useful? Do you plan to continue use of your adjustable bed bases with your next mattress?

It would appear based on reading up online that we likely would want to target a "medium" firmness mattress, however realize that since not all materials are created equal it likely isn't a one-size fits all metric. I would be looking for some guidance in this regard.


Yes, there is no "one size fits all" standard for mattresses; however, the D2C mattress manufacturers have done a fairly good job of identifying materials and constructions that will get you close to a "one size fits most" approach. Zippered covers with moveable layers, separate mattress pillow tops, and different layer firmnesses are examples of product innovations that help consumers easily adjust a mattress's comfort to their personal preferences. If you both are considering a medium firmness mattress, it would be helpful to make showroom visits and test a variety of models available in that firmness category. You may be surprised how the firmness will vary depending on what materials are used in the comfort layers. For example, Natural/ Dunlop latex in medium would feel and react differently (denser, more firm feeling) than Talalay latex / medium (more conforming and plush feeling).

I'm also looking for advice on materials/brands.


You've constructed a helpful comparison of a number of mattresses, Bobby; good job and thanks for providing all of those details. Regarding product reviews in general: glean from them details that speak to facts rather than emotions, and you may find the information somewhat helpful. Consumer Reports certainly isn’t the "be all end all" for opinions. In other words ... reviews or other people's experiences in general won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #2 here regarding Phoenix's thoughts on CR ).

As you have been part of the forum for some time now, you likely know that we will comment on a mattress's durability potential and can offer thought starters towards narrowing down choices. You've mentioned six mattress brands and your thoughts regarding several of the models, mostly latex hybrids. As it has been awhile since your last post, have you narrowed your choices further? Looking forward to your updates and thanks.

Sensei
Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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Advice on selecting a new mattress 31 Aug 2021 11:32 #3

Thanks for the follow up.

We went to try out a few options this past weekend and we both decided we didn't like the Purple primarily because of the springy "jelly" like feel. Due to my experience with my previous TempurPedic, I'm leaning away from any memory foam options because they sleep warmer, they change feel throughout the night as it heats up, and aren't as durable as other options (although my current mattress might not have had dense enough foam in comfort layer resulting in premature wear). In regards to your question about the adjustable base, the answer is we don't really use them at the moment but since we spent so much on them we may as well use them with our new mattress that way we have the option to use them if needed. But either way when our current mattress goes into a spare bedroom we'll either move the bases with it or else buy a foundation/frame for that room.

So at this point I think I'm leaning towards latex due to it's better temperature performance and superior durability. I believe I'm also leaning towards a latex hybrid as it would seem the innersprings would sleep cooler as well as make the bed slightly more lively then foam core.

At this point I'm still doing research but think I have it tentatively narrowed to these options (open to other suggestions as well):
  • Luma Sleep Natural Latex Hybrid
  • Nest Latex Hybrid
  • Avocado Latex Hybrid (without pillow top)
  • Winkbeds Eco Cloud Latex Hybrid
  • Saatva Latex Hybrid

Flobeds sounded like another potential option as well but the price for a King size in the config that was recommended came in at just over 3k, and I'd like to keep it around 2k if possible (unless I can't find a decent option for 2k in which case an extra 1k is an option). Saavy Rest also has some nice customization but are also in the 3k - 3.5k range so more spendy then I'm targeting at this point. While shopping we saw the Bedgear M3 which was interesting due to the modular design of the coils that can easily be swapped to adjust firmness and the modular approach makes it easier to extend the life of your mattress by replacing individual components as they wear out rather then buying a whole new mattress. But I don't like how it's impossible to find anything about the type of foam they use or the density of said foam, combined with the fact they don't really do returns means I'm not seriously considering them.

At this point my main considerations in selection criteria are:
  • Latex hybrid mattress (up for discussion whether comfort layer has to be dunlop or talalay or whether we have no preference after trying out some options)
  • Great support for sleeping on my back and alleviating back pain/soreness while still allowing us to sleep on our side
  • Sleep cooler then memory foam
  • Good / free return policy with meaningful free night trial (most have 100 or 120 days)
  • While not a requirement having some modular design is enticing to either replace a single layer to adjust firmness or replace later on if it wears out instead of buying a whole new mattress 7 yrs down the road

Some beds have zoning either in the coils or by using different firmness foams in different areas (primarily flobeds does the foam zoning while winkbeds and avocado use the zoned coil setup). At first glance it would seem that getting a "zoned" mattress would be beneficial but after reading more on it is it accurate to say it isn't necessarily better? There is a place by me called "Sleep Sherpa" that has a showroom where you can try out many of the online mattresses first so we may do that to see if we can get a feel for whether we want dunlop or talalay or if we don't have a preference, as well as see what firmness we likely want and if we can agree on a single firmness or whether we require a split firmness mattress. It's nice having the free trials and returns, but ideally I don't want to buy something unless I've tried it out first and know it's going to work well rather then having to deal with exhanges/returns later. Of course if we can't find anything we try out locally that works best for us and there is an enticing online option with free returns then we could go that route as well.

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Advice on selecting a new mattress 31 Aug 2021 11:37 #4

Didn't see an option to edit my previous post but another criteria for me is durability and also to minimize disturbances when partner moves around at night. For the stability though that's secondary. If we find a mattress that's perfect for everything else but there's still some motion transfer then I'm content to live with that.

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Advice on selecting a new mattress 04 Sep 2021 12:56 #5

Hey Bobby,

Thanks for your reply and updates :) .

So at this point I think I'm leaning towards latex due to it's better temperature performance and superior durability. I believe I'm also leaning towards a latex hybrid as it would seem the innersprings would sleep cooler as well as make the bed slightly more lively then foam core.
At this point I'm still doing research but think I have it tentatively narrowed to these options (open to other suggestions as well):


Excellent! Now that you have identified your preference for a latex hybrid mattress, the real work can begin. You have nailed the comparison of an all-latex vs. a latex hybrid mattress well, Bobby. Both mattresses would sleep cool and rank on the high end of durability; however, a latex hybrid's pocket coil array does allow for a nice airflow through the support core. And pairing the coils with latex comfort layers, especially Talalay latex, does provide a nice, responsive feel. You have a number of choices, let's look at how they fare.

• Luma Sleep Natural Latex Hybrid


Luma's Natural Latex Hybrid mattress features an exchangeable mattress pillow top, available in Dunlop latex and 3 firmnesses, over a 2" natural latex transition layer and an 8" QEE Bolsa coil unit. There is also an optional Talalay latex upgrade, as well as a 3" latex (Natural or Talalay) upgrade. There is a free 365 day Comfort Exchange option, as well as a free 100 night sleep trial return policy.

• Nest Latex Hybrid


Nest Bedding's Natural Hybrid Latex mattress, available in 3 firmnesses and features an exchangeable 3" Natural/ Dunlop latex comfort layer, a 1" transitional comfort foam layer, over a 6" pocket coil unit. Nest offers a 100 night sleep trial return policy and a comfort layer exchange option.

• Avocado Latex Hybrid (without pillow top)


Avocado Green Mattress's Latex Hybrid/ standard model features 3" of Natural/ Dunlop latex over an 8" five-zoned pocket coil unit. It is available in one firmness: Medium-firm. Given its coil gauges, it seems overall a firmer mattress than the Luma Natural Latex Hybrid. Avocado offers a one-year sleep trial return policy.

• Winkbeds Eco Cloud Latex Hybrid


Winkbeds' EcoCloud hybrid mattress offers a 2 textured Talalay latex comfort layers over 8" five-zoned pocket coils, available in one firmness: medium. Their site doesn't offer detailed component specs, so I'm not sure how the pocket coil zoning works, but judging from the product cutaway image, the Talalay comfort layer/ description appears to be zoned as well. Winkbeds provides a 120 night sleep trial for its mattress.

• Saatva Latex Hybrid


Saatva's Latex Hybrid model features a 3" layer of 5-zoned Natural/ Dunlop latex over a single-zoned pocket coil unit, available in one firmness: medium-firm. No detailed component specs are available for a durability assessment. Saatva does provide a single exchange during their 180 night sleep trial return period.

Any of these four models could be a good latex hybrid choice for you both; however, neither Winkbeds or Saatva discuss product specs in detail for further insights of how long they may serve you well. All of your candidates do have appropriate product certifications , ensuring that they have been tested for safe use.

Flobeds sounded like another potential option as well but the price for a King size in the config that was recommended came in at just over 3k, and I'd like to keep it around 2k if possible (unless I can't find a decent option for 2k in which case an extra 1k is an option). Saavy Rest also has some nice customization but are also in the 3k - 3.5k range so more spendy then I'm targeting at this point. While shopping we saw the Bedgear M3 which was interesting due to the modular design of the coils that can easily be swapped to adjust firmness and the modular approach makes it easier to extend the life of your mattress by replacing individual components as they wear out rather then buying a whole new mattress. But I don't like how it's impossible to find anything about the type of foam they use or the density of said foam, combined with the fact they don't really do returns means I'm not seriously considering them.


I've been curious about Bedgear's lineup, as I've been seeing more of their social media promos lately. To your point, their site doesn't disclose any of their proprietary foams or other ingredients' specs, so there isn't a comparable way to understand what's inside or how durable the materials are. They do offer a 30 day return period, but the customer is responsible for that cost. As you're not actively considering this model, this detail is a moot point, but Bedgear does have an email contact address and phone number. That would be a way to ask more details about their products, for other consumers who may have questions about the specs.

At this point my main considerations in selection criteria are:
• Latex hybrid mattress (up for discussion whether comfort layer has to be dunlop or talalay or whether we have no preference after trying out some options)
• Great support for sleeping on my back and alleviating back pain/soreness while still allowing us to sleep on our side
• Sleep cooler then memory foam
• Good / free return policy with meaningful free night trial (most have 100 or 120 days)
• While not a requirement having some modular design is enticing to either replace a single layer to adjust firmness or replace later on if it wears out instead of buying a whole new mattress 7 yrs down the road


These are all good "wish list" items for selecting a mattress, Bobby. Trusted members Luma Sleep , Nest Bedding , and Flobeds all have exchangeable/ replaceable comfort layers, and all use latex in one form or other. Any of them could be a potentially good fit for you both, in terms of support and durability, as well as the "sleeping cooler" factor. They also provide generous sleep trial and return policies, giving you the confidence to make a purchase sight unseen. If you haven't already done so, you may consider taking advantage of the manufacturer's Live Chat or Email consultation options for getting help with your specific comfort and support questions.

Some beds have zoning either in the coils or by using different firmness foams in different areas (primarily flobeds does the foam zoning while winkbeds and avocado use the zoned coil setup). At first glance it would seem that getting a "zoned" mattress would be beneficial but after reading more on it is it accurate to say it isn't necessarily better? There is a place by me called "Sleep Sherpa" that has a showroom where you can try out many of the online mattresses first so we may do that to see if we can get a feel for whether we want dunlop or talalay or if we don't have a preference, as well as see what firmness we likely want and if we can agree on a single firmness or whether we require a split firmness mattress. It's nice having the free trials and returns, but ideally I don't want to buy something unless I've tried it out first and know it's going to work well rather then having to deal with exhanges/returns later. Of course if we can't find anything we try out locally that works best for us and there is an enticing online option with free returns then we could go that route as well.


Using either zoned latex comfort layers or zoned pocket coil systems is a matter of personal preference, and I would definitely advise that you try something similar before purchase in a showroom if it all possible. There are reports that zoned mattresses can be a bit too firm for some, but for others, mattress zoning is the perfect support solution. The Sleep Sherpa's showroom would be a good place for you to get latex hybrid experience. Don't forget: you may also ask TMU's trusted members in the latex hybrid category questions about their models as well ;) .

Didn't see an option to edit my previous post but another criteria for me is durability and also to minimize disturbances when partner moves around at night. For the stability though that's secondary. If we find a mattress that's perfect for everything else but there's still some motion transfer then I'm content to live with that.


You should find with these latex hybrid models, especially in a king size, that motion separation should be well-provided by the pocket coil support units. They are designed to respond to the body's profile individually as it moves over the mattress's surface, minimizing motion transfer from one partner to another.

Hope this help some, and good luck with your research.

Sensei
Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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Advice on selecting a new mattress 24 Sep 2021 09:37 #6

So I ended up deciding on trying Luma Sleep, I went with the Hybrid Slumber System with Talalay topper. We'll see how it feels when I receive it, but the think I liked was the zoned coils and the modular approach to the comfort layer that can be swapped for a different firmness if needed (all for a decent price). The only one in store I tried that felt good was the Winkbeds Plus, and I'm hoping the Luma ends up being a good fit.

Separate question. My in laws have a mattress that's too firm, are side sleepers, and their bed isn't working for them. I suggested they first try a topper to see if that helps vs buying a whole new bed. I figure since the mattress itself is supportive and too firm (not too soft), a topper might be a good way to soften it up and provide pressure relief while still offering proper support. If it doesn't work out they can always return it and buy a whole new mattress if need be.

I'm looking for a 2"-3" talalay latex mattress topper from a company that offers a sleep trial where if it doesn't work you can return for a refund (preferably longer then 30 days). Can anyone provide any suggestions for vendors or products I should consider?

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Advice on selecting a new mattress 25 Sep 2021 14:38 #7

Hi bobby2478.

We had to redistribute some TMU tasks as we are one moderator short for a little while until Sensei is back from a personal leave so I will chime in for the time being.

Thank you for your update but especially ...Congratulation on your new mattress purchase! :cheer:

As you probably know Luma Sleep is one of the Trusted members of our site and also a TMU mattress expert which means that I think highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the [urlhttps://www.themattressunderground.com/the-mattress-underground-membership/recommended-by-the-mattress-underground.html]best in the industry[/url] in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. All of their mattresses use high-quality materials and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in any of them so this is certainly a great quality/value choice.

Separate question. My in laws have a mattress that's too firm, are side sleepers, and their bed isn't working for them. I suggested they first try a topper to see if that helps vs buying a whole new bed. I figure since the mattress itself is supportive and too firm (not too soft), a topper might be a good way to soften it up and provide pressure relief while still offering proper support. If it doesn't work out they can always return it and buy a whole new mattress if need be.

Correct…. a good quality topper can certainly be an effective way to add some additional softness. Toppers are designed to add comfort to a mattress that does not sag but is too firm and needs some pressure relief qualities. When you use a topper over a mattress the topper will compress and in combination with the layers below it will take on the shape of your body profile. Softer toppers will compress more than firmer toppers. This "cradle" formed by the upper layers re-distributes weight away from the pressure points of the body.

I'm looking for a 2"-3" Talalay latex mattress topper from a company that offers a sleep trial where if it doesn't work you can return for a refund (preferably longer then 30 days). Can anyone provide any suggestions for vendors or products I should consider?

Good thinking! Sometimes choosing a topper can be as difficult as choosing a mattress as it takes a bit of trial and error to dial in and find the exact combo of support/comfort best for your in-law’s needs.

Luma Sleep also offers 2” -3” Talalay toppers with a 30-day In-home trial. I am not sure if they do exchanges for the toppers. You do have the advantage of having a one-stop-shop for everything and dealing with a reliable vendor,
Latex Mattress Factory offers both Talalay and Dunlop with a good 30 days exchange & return policy that it includes a $45 flat fee to cover a portion of return shipping. They have
SleepEz has a similar policy except that customer is responsible for shipping costs.
Naturally Nestled Trusted Member has a very generous return policy, however, at this time they offer only Dunlop.

Hopefully, other consumer subscribers have more suggestions for latex toppers with a good return/exchange policy
Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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