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Can you create the feel of innersprings with a foam core? 03 Oct 2021 07:44 #1

I'm still struggling to figure out my mattress. I thought I was going to just bite the bullet and order the very expensive Sealy mattress made for the JW Marriott hotels - until I just last night had this mattress completely let me down in this hotel. Worst sleep ever on this mattress - sore and headache this morning.

I'm a stomach sleeper - but I hate sinking into the mattress. I like it firm with then a softer layer on top.

Is there a firm foam that comes in the "bed in a box" method for shipping? I live in Mexico and only have a small car to go across the border to get packages.

I had a lovely Latex mattress, but it's too heavy for my platform in my RV. It had 6" firm Dunlop as the core. The mattress I currently inherited when I bought this RV is a 10" Zinus Green Tea foam mattress that says the specs are "Core Composition: 2.5in Green Tea Memory Foam + 2in Z:Comfort Foam + 5.5in Z:Base Foam".

I really need to sort this soon, as my ribs, neck and head need a break :-)

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Can you create the feel of innersprings with a foam core? 06 Oct 2021 00:02 #2

Hi bghouse.

I'm a stomach sleeper - but I hate sinking into the mattress. I like it firm with then a softer layer on top.

There is no doubt that being a stomach sleeper presents some challenges. Your first priority when sleeping prone is to make sure to avoid hyperextension and the swayback position that can cause lower back issues if the mattress is either too soft/thick comfort layer or too soft support layer. In the general stomach, sleepers need the thinnest comfort layer, (one inch or at the most two) and side sleepers need the thickest comfort layer. It is rare that anyone ... even a side sleeper ... would need more than 4" in a comfort layer.

Is there a firm foam that comes in the "bed in a box" method for shipping? I live in Mexico and only have a small car to go across the border to get packages.

It looks like you are planning to get an online mattress purchase shipped at a particular USA location and then cross the border into Mexico. There are tens of thousands of BIB mattresses available on line that fit this criterion (just too many for anyone to be able to track) which is why I suggest that you narrow things down a bit based on your personal value equation and what is important to you.

Can you create the feel of innersprings with a foam core?

Both innersprings and a firmer latex or polyfoam core can be used as a support layer and each has very "different" characteristics but the most important differences are the ones you can feel and that you personally prefer. Both can be softer or firmer depending on design so a pocket coil could be firmer than a latex core or the other way around they could be zoned or not all depending on the specifics of the components you are comparing. There is more about this in post #10 here and more detailed information about innersprings vs latex support cores in post #2 here The choice between an innerspring support core and a good quality polyfoam support core is really a matter of personal preference and not a "better worse" choice. The weak link of a mattress is generally in the comfort layers above the innerspring and not in the innerspring itself. You can read more about foam base vs innerspring base in post #28 here

Innersprings absorb less energy than a polyfoam support core, which means they are more resilient. This means that an innerspring mattress will be more "springy" than polyfoams and those who have tried both will validate that the feel between them and how they each react to motion is very different. Some prefer one while others prefer the other. Both can make high-quality support layers.

There is also a property called "point elasticity" which is the ability of a material to compress without affecting the areas beside it. Because of its elasticity ... there are millions of points that can compress individually and which only affect small areas around it. Polyfoam will not be as point elastic as latex. Innersprings on the other hand have less "point elasticity" than both of those items. Their ability to take on a body shape and isolate motion is more limited to the number of coils and how the coils are connected to each other. Pocket coils with a high coil count would be the most "point elastic" of the innerspring types.

An innerspring unit will tend to be more durable than a high-density polyfoam support core, but neither is usually the weak link within a mattress.

All of this of course can be modified by the layers both above and below a particular component or material.

There are so many differences between them that it is really impossible to answer these types of "apples to oranges" questions in any other way than through very general comparisons that may not represent the differences between two specific support materials. There are those whose "ideal" mattress is latex over innersprings for example and not only that, it may be a particular type of innerspring. There are others who will only sleep on latex using a polyfoam support core. Others prefer all latex.

I had a lovely Latex mattress, but it's too heavy for my platform in my RV. It had 6" firm Dunlop as the core. The mattress I currently inherited when I bought this RV is a 10" Zinus Green Tea foam mattress that says the specs are "Core Composition: 2.5in Green Tea Memory Foam + 2in Z:Comfort Foam + 5.5in Z:Base Foam".

When you mentioned the “inherited Zinus” RV mattress ... is this to be used as a reference to approximate the mattress in terms of thickness, components, and specs?

If so, I’d place a caution in terms of the durability and useful life of this mattress (see the mattress durability guidelines here ). Personally, I am not a fan of visco-elastic foams in RV use because of the wide swings in temperature and humidity and this can cause premature wear and even permanent damage to memory foam, especially if they're exposed to a below-freezing environment and then used before attaining room temperature. Add to this moisture or condensation that may become trapped in your mattress which would encourage the growth of dust mites, mold, and mildew.

This said, there are quite a few boxed bed mattresses that only contain polyurethane foam (or even a little latex). Depending on your BMI range you'd generally want to choose their firmer options for stomach sleeping. Also as a stomach sleeper (again depending on your BMI) you don’t need that much thickness to get both the support and comfort that you need.

Another alternative would be to use a lower profile spring unit, and then combine this with as much comfort material in a higher density or hardness that you desire and can be rolled packed for shipping. Many manufacturers produce thinner innerspring mattresses, but most of them do tend to be quite low quality so I’d make sure to find out the mattress information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the mattress durability guidelines here

Since you liked your 6” firm Dunlop mattress but the overall weight is prohibitive you could also look into a latex polyfoam combo, with a firmer feel.
You certainly can find options, both innerspring and foam, that will be able to support you in the thickness you desire, but it will involve a little bit of online searching or visiting of stores in your area as there are far too many Boxed beds and innerspring variety to list.

Hopefully, that helps you out a bit.
Phoenix
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Can you create the feel of innersprings with a foam core? 06 Oct 2021 07:23 #3

Thank you, this does help.

I mentioned the Zinus mattress to be thorough only, I'm not trying to recreate it.

The latex mattress I had before in my old RV was custom cut and made by Mattress Makers in San Diego. It had a 6" Dunlop Core with a 30 ILD and a 3" Talalay comfort layer with an 18 ILD. I would like to recreate this.

If I were to do this is layers in a DIY config, so that the layers can ship compressed and I can get it over the border - do I need to have these in 6" and 3" slabs? Or could the core be two 3" layers? Would that compromise the support in the core?

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Can you create the feel of innersprings with a foam core? 07 Oct 2021 22:09 #4

Hi bghouse.

Glad to be of assistance!

The latex mattress I had before in my old RV was custom cut and made by Mattress Makers in San Diego. It had a 6" Dunlop Core with a 30 ILD and a 3" Talalay comfort layer with an 18 ILD. I would like to recreate this.

This should not be very difficult to put together and if you get the same type of Dunlop (SBR, NR, or blended) it has the chance to approximate quite closely the feel of your old RV mattress. If you chose to buy it again from Mattress Makers most likely are aware that is one of the Trusted members of our site and I am sure they’ll be pleased to assist you once again with a new RV or custom mattress. They have the Coronado lineup that matches exactly what you are looking to get. Mattress Makers are now selling online, roll packs their mattress or layers, and ship it compressed anywhere in the US. Just make sure to mention The Mattress Underground to get your discount.

If I were to do this is layers in a DIY config, so that the layers can ship compressed and I can get it over the border - do I need to have these in 6" and 3" slabs? Or could the core be two 3" layers? Would that compromise the support in the core?

There should not be any problem with compromising the latex especially if it is rolled (folding may result in the forming of creases and the layer may not come back to the original state if kept compressed for too long) Generally latex is very resilient and springs back to its original shape but I would aim to open it within 30 days. Talalay latex is very durable and will hold up very well to compression over even much longer periods of time than a month so while there may be a slight reduction in firmness (which would also be the case with shorter-term compression as well) I would have no concerns in terms of durability or the integrity of the latex

There would be little if any practical difference between two 3" comfort layers vs a single 6" core layer if they were all the same type and blend of latex and the same ILD (in this case 30) and were inside a tight-fitting cover. Two 3" layers would respond a little more independently and because the elasticity of the top 3" wouldn't be connected and "pulling back" on the bottom 3" when it compresses and "in theory" it may act a little bit softer but in practical and real-life terms most people wouldn't notice any difference in terms of performance or firmness.

Also in "theory only" ... two 3" layers that were exactly the same ILD as a single 6" layer could be less durable over the course of a long lifetime because they will act more independently and abrade each other slightly but I don't think that any difference would be significant or even measurable in "real life" terms and the other factors that affect durability (see post #4 here ) such as the firmness of the layers would play a much bigger role. It certainly wouldn't be a concern of mine.

Phoenix
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Can you create the feel of innersprings with a foam core? 08 Oct 2021 09:44 #5

Thank you for the quick reply. The Coronado Medium Plush was my old mattress :-)

I have already bought three separate 1" Talalay toppers that I'm using on this horrible rock of a mattress I got with my new RV.

I would like to try and keep these and put the pocketed coils underneath in a diy setup.

Will three separate 1" toppers be okay? Or do I need to have a solid 3 inch topper for the right support and to keep from breaking down?

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Can you create the feel of innersprings with a foam core? 10 Oct 2021 11:53 #6

Hi bghouse.

Will three separate 1" toppers be okay? Or do I need to have a solid 3 inch topper for the right support and to keep from breaking down?

There are advantages to the “three separate 1" toppers setup” you already ordered. The main advantage to using this setup is that you can experiment with subtracting and adding layers to fine-tune this DIY for your specific needs and preferences.

You may lose a bit on the durability side because of the abrasion that will occur between the 3 Talalay comfort layers when moving on the mattress that will cause some shifting, but you have a few ways to mitigate this and prolong the useful life of the layers
1. Place all layers inside a tight-fitting zippered cover to minimize any shifting that may occur.
2. If you find that this configuration is a perfect fit then you can use a water-based adhesive to glue the 3 layers to each other which will prevent any layer shifting. Gluing the layers will also add a touch of firmness but for all practice purposes, most people would not really notice this.
Three one-inch layers versus one 3-inch layer will act a bit softer because they work independently so connecting them with glue or a tight cover will both keep them from shifting and add this touch more firmness in case you desire it.

Good luck! Let us know how the DIY works for you.
Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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