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I thought I would post an update after my visits to city mattress and the mattress factory.

We started at city mattress. The service was a little lacking. We were the only people in the showroom at the time. I believe it was the owner's wife that was helping us. The latex mattress we tried out was only 1 layer and was very springy. If felt just like an innerspring. She was unable to tell us the firmness level of it. I did really like the feel of a memory foam that they had. She couldn't give us much info on the layers though. Just that it had a layer of memory foam and a layer of gel on the foam base and it had the foam boxing on the edges. Her husband was close by and didn't appear busy and didn't bother jumping in to provide more info. This caused me to leave there without much interest.

We visited the mattress factory next. The available latex beds they had to try we're firm/firm, firm/soft, med/med, and med/soft. We were told firm was 36, med was 28, and soft was 22. We were told those were the only levels available. I asked about customizing with other levels and he acted like it wasn't available. We were quite happy with the firm/soft combo though and purchased it in king size. It is 6 inches of 36 with 2 inch of 22 on either side. I generally like a bit more on the softer side but my husband is bigger and needs more support. I think over time I will prefer the support of the firmer option also. I figure I can always add something on top if needed.

We were given the 5% MU discount along with the 100 online coupon. He gave us a deal on top of that also because we mentioned we had found another mattress that we were interested in that was significantly cheaper (the memory foam one at city mattress) and were trying to justify spending so much more. Even with the discounts the total ended up being at the very top of our budget. I expected it to be less. But we are hoping it will be more than worth it. I will try to remember to update once we are sleeping on it.

Thanks again Phoenix!

Hi njames,

Thanks for your feedback and for sharing your Dallas experiences.

I figure I can always add something on top if needed.

That's very true ... and its always safer to go a little firmer and then add a topper if it's necessary than to go too soft which is much more difficult to "fix" because it would involve removing and replacing the foam layers that were too soft.

We were given the 5% MU discount along with the 100 online coupon. He gave us a deal on top of that also because we mentioned we had found another mattress that we were interested in that was significantly cheaper (the memory foam one at city mattress) and were trying to justify spending so much more.

Wow ... it sounds like you did very well with all the stacked discounts and he must have been in a really mood to give you the extra discount when you mentioned the memory foam mattress since the mattress you purchased uses much higher quality materials and would normally be in a higher budget range than a memory foam mattress.

In any case it sounds like you made a great choice ... and congratulations on your new mattress .

I'm looking forward to your feedback once you've received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

I'm so glad I found The Mattress Underground! Phoenix, thanks for providing such an informative site! I plan on going to The Mattress Factory tomorrow to check out their mattresses. Coincidentally I was at Sleep Craft yesterday due to a friend's recommendation (prior to finding your site), but want to do some more comparison shopping.

Hi Texan,

I'm glad you found us ... and welcome .

You're certainly looking at a couple of very good options in the Dallas / Ft Worth area and I'm looking forward to your feedback and of course finding out what you end up deciding.

Phoenix

Chased all the hyperlinks in the 24 May 2012 and this one is broken now thefurnituredeal.com/

Some of the sites were much better than others. Some made it difficult to tell what products they offer. I realize these are typically not large businesses but they really should spend a few dollars and make their websites usable. Since I have settled on a latex mattress, choices are more limited. One thing that remains confusing is the jargon. The words foam, gel, latex get tossed around as if they are interchangeable. Maybe they are at some high level but not for purposes of segmenting inventory. Tis a challenge to interpret some of these sites. Goes back to what Phoenix says. Talk to them. It works best.

Hi mjbotx,

Chased all the hyperlinks in the 24 May 2012 and this one is broken now thefurnituredeal.com/

The last update to the list was on April 11/2014 and they were still listed in google search and at the BBB so I called them just now and their phone number was not in service so they must have recently gone out of business so I've removed them from the list. Thanks for the heads up

Some of the sites were much better than others. Some made it difficult to tell what products they offer.

This is fairly standard in the industry and unfortumately it's more of a rule than an exception with local businesses that websites aren't current or don't list the specifics of the mattresses that a retailer carries. Retailers or manufacturers that sell online are generally more current. Some of the best local retailers in the industry are very small and have very poor websites. They typically don't spend a lot of time on their sites and rely more on word of mouth advertising. Some don't even have websites at all.

I generally treat websites as a general indication of what you may find there but in some cases they don't really give you any meaningful information at all so as you mentioned you would need to talk with them on the phone to find out more specifics about what they are currently carrying or their level of knowledge and experience. The brands I include with each of the listings in the many lists around the forum are generally "possibilities" based on how likely it is that you will be able to find out the specifics of the quality of the materials inside them. If you do some careful and objective testing on mattresses where you are able to find out the specifics of what is inside them then your odds go up dramatically of making a good choice.

One thing that remains confusing is the jargon. The words foam, gel, latex get tossed around as if they are interchangeable.

Talk to them. It works best

I completely agree with you and the "jargon" or marketing or "proprietary" terminology that is very common is also another significant issue in the industry and in many cases is not particularly relevant to making an informed purchase. There are many different names used in the industry to describe what is basically the same materials or components. In addition to this many retailers know much more about how to "sell" a mattress using "marketingspeak" or "sales techniques" that they were taught by their company or the manufacturer's reps that they deal with than they do about how to "educate" their customers about the quality of the materials inside their mattresses.

The sad truth is that those people who spend an hour or two on this site will generally know more meaningful information about mattresses than the large majority of the salespeople in the mainstream industry so when you find a retailer or manufacturer that are "mattress people" instead of "money machines" it can really be a breath of fresh air because they are certainly not the norm.

One of the biggest reasons for the tutorial post and the links it includes is to help bypass the jargon and focus on what is really important and to know the basics of the different types of materials and components that are used in mattresses regardless of what they may be called in a particular store or by a particular manufacturers.

Thanks again for your comments and for helping to keep the forum lists up to date.

Phoenix

Well now I really have a dilemma. Just visited the Mattress Factory in Ft. Worth. Like Doug, my wife and I preferred the firm 36/36/36, 2"/6"/2" all natural Talalay mattress. We are both above average height and weight but it does make me pause to see so few people comfortable with this configuration. Makes me wonder if I should lighten up the top layer a bit. A few minutes on a mattress is no substitute for a decade on one. As I understand it, the layers are not exchangeable in the Mattress Factory product where they are with some other producers like Brooklyn Bedding. Also, the Mattress Factory has just changed its warranty from a 15 year non-prorated warranty to a 5/20 warranty. I am not sure what that tells me about quality after year 5 since it is one of the shortest in the market.

The closes product we could find that might also meet our needs is from BB, the 10 inch Essence - 3" of 100% Natural Talalay & 6" of 100% Natural Dunlop. Its layers are exchangeable and it has a 1" wool layer not present in the Mattress Factory product. BB's site said there would be a substantial price increase to go all Talalay.

As much as I have read on this site about Dunlop vs Talalay, I remained confused about whether one is better than the other but I have decided that they are just different. Given they are different, that leaves the layman wondering if an all Dunlop or all Talalay would be better than a Dunlop core/Talalay comfort mattress. What is a person to do?

One final supposition which may well be off base - because of the difference in their cell structure and the manufacturing process I would surmise that a 36ILD Talalay mattress may "feel" marginally softer than a 36ILD Dunlop mattress. ILD or IFD depending on your preference seems to be marginally useful if only to get you in the ballpark range.

Hi mjobtx,

We are both above average height and weight but it does make me pause to see so few people comfortable with this configuration. Makes me wonder if I should lighten up the top layer a bit. A few minutes on a mattress is no substitute for a decade on one.

I would use the results of your own careful and objective testing on a mattress as a much more reliable guideline for what works best for you than anyone else's experience on a mattress. What is "much too soft" for one person can be "much too firm" for the next and each person is different. I would also make sure that you use the testing guidelines in the tutorial post and spend more than a few minutes testing a mattress. I would also keep in mind that it's much easier to soften up a mattress that is too firm with a topper than to make a mattress that is too soft any firmer (which would require removing and replacing the foam that is too soft or thick). I would also make sure you talk with any manufacturer and are comfortable with the options you have after a mattress purchase just in case your sleeping experience is different from what you expected and you need to make any changes or do any "fine tuning" with the mattress.

Also, the Mattress Factory has just changed its warranty from a 15 year non-prorated warranty to a 5/20 warranty. I am not sure what that tells me about quality after year 5 since it is one of the shortest in the market.

Warranties only cover defects in a mattress (which will tend to happen very early in the life of a mattress) and don't say anything about the quality of the materials in a mattress and have very little to nothing to do with the useful life of a mattress (see post #174 here ). They don't cover the loss of comfort and support that is the main reason people will need to buy a new mattress so it's much more important to know the type and quality/durability of all the materials inside a mattress (see this article ) than to use the length of a warranty as an indication of the quality of the materials or the useful life of a mattress.

As much as I have read on this site about Dunlop vs Talalay, I remained confused about whether one is better than the other but I have decided that they are just different. Given they are different, that leaves the layman wondering if an all Dunlop or all Talalay would be better than a Dunlop core/Talalay comfort mattress. What is a person to do?

You are right that one isn't "better" than another ... they are a preference choice and are just different. Post #6 here has more about the different types and blends of latex and post #7 here has more about the difference between how they feel and perform but the best way to know which one you would prefer is with your own personal testing or experience. It would be like trying to decide whether you prefer apples or oranges without having ever tried either one of them.

If you follow the steps in the tutorial post one at a time and have narrowed your options down to finalists that are all choices between "good and good" then your final choice would depend on the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you and your "educated best judgement".

One final supposition which may well be off base - because of the difference in their cell structure and the manufacturing process I would surmise that a 36ILD Talalay mattress may "feel" marginally softer than a 36ILD Dunlop mattress. ILD or IFD depending on your preference seems to be marginally useful if only to get you in the ballpark range.

I would tend to avoid trying to make this kind analysis when you don't have the personal experience to "translate" what you are analyzing into your own "real life" experience because it can drive you crazy and you will always be on the edge of "information overload" and "paralysis by analysis". While it's true that if everything else is equal that Dunlop will tend to feel firmer than Talalay in the same ILD, thickness, and mattress design for most people if you compress it more than 25% (which is the compression depth that ILD is tested), there are probably enough other differences in the designs of two different mattresses you are comparing in most cases that everything else probably won't be equal and some of the other differences between them may contribute more to any differences you feel than the type of latex.

Phoenix

I thought I'd give an update on our mattress(es)...

As I reported earlier, we got a split king all latex mattress from The Mattress Factory in Ft Worth, TX and had a great experience there. Both twin XLs had a 6" core with an approximate ILD of 36 and a 2" "comfort" layer on both sides (so it can be flipped) with an approximate ILD of 28. So we got approximately a 28/36/28 configuration.

From the very first day I felt like mine might be too firm. It felt subtly like the mattress was "pushing up" on my hips - I finally understood some posts I had read where people complained about their latex mattress having to much "pushback". I also would wake up a couple times a night and have to switch positions to relieve pressure on various pressure points. And every morning I would have some minor soreness in my lower back, which would luckily only last for 30-60 minutes. I loved the support the mattress provided, but it was obvious pretty quickly that the mattress was too firm for my hips and pressure points.

I decided to give it a few weeks to see if things would "soften up", and/or for my body to adjust to sleeping on a proper mattress with proper support - since I had been sleeping on an underinflated Select Comfort mattress for a long time my body was "used to" a complete lack of support. But even after several weeks the issues still persisted and it was clear that the mattress was to firm for me.

(We enjoyed our split Select Comfort and were satisfied with it for over 10 years, but in the last couple years my mattress had gotten to where it would only inflate so far. I'm sure Select Comfort would have worked with us to fix that, but I just didn't want to hassle with it as it seemed "fine" sleeping on it to me - although I now realize I should have done something sooner because it was so unsupportive. But at least I finally decided to do something about it, and recently decided to start researching what to look for in a mattress... and found this site!)

Peter at The Mattress Factory was great about it when I asked about modifying the mattress, and since it was so shortly after we had purchased the mattress he was willing to modify the mattress for me at no charge. At first I was thinking I just needed it overall "softer", so I took the mattress in and was going to have him change it to 28/24/28. But after hearing myself talk it through with him and my wife I realized the issue I had with the mattress was not the "support", it was the "comfort". In fact the support was great, but I just wasn't getting quite enough relief on my hips and pressure points. So I instead had him slightly modify just the outer ("comfort") layers by replacing the outer layers with an approximate ILD of 24, to change the mattress to a configuration of 24/36/24.

Well... after picking it up just a few days later and getting it home...

From the very first night it was an obvious improvement!

When I laid down on it for the first time it was a clear improvement. My hips no longer felt "pushed up", and yet they also didn't sink in too far to take my spine out of alignment. I didn't wake once that night, and my back was fine in the morning. I decided to sleep on it several weeks again for things to settle and/or soften, etc. before I decided it was definitely the right configuration for me.

Well... I can now say this 24/36/24 configuration, as Goldilocks said, is "just right" for me. Not only has it continued to feel as good as it did that first night, but it has gotten even better as my body has gotten used to sleeping on a properly supporting mattress - rather than an underinflated Sleep Number mattress. I'm sleeping much better with this mattress than I had been on that mattress for the last couple of years.

I can definitely say I've personally had a good experience purchasing our mattress(es) from The Mattress Factory.

Hi JoelD,

Thanks for the update and for sharing the details of your adjustments.

I think your experience really goes to show the difference between "comfort" and "support" and the importance of making the "right" changes to a mattress. It also goes to show how in some cases relatively small changes can make a big difference.

It's also great to see the kind of help and service you received from Peter at The Mattress Factory and that the changes you made worked out so well for you

Phoenix