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Re: My Essentia.com False Advertising and Lying to Consumer

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26 May 2016 07:34 #71 by Brent
Hi Phoenix,

I have been reading a lot of your post. It's incredible the amount of time and knowledge you add to each discussion. People like you make it so much easier for me to make an informed decision. Thank you for that. It is also nice that there are people that are willing to call out companies like essentia to reveal the truths.

I am also looking for a more natural mattress. How do I know if any of these companies are telling the truth on their websites? Is it just that essentia is more brazen about their claims and they are touting new technology that can't be verified because they are hiding behind patents? If I go to other sites like savvy rest and naturepedic they are claiming organic and natural too. But it looks like all three are using the same Dunlop latex. Is there really such a thing as 100% natural or do all these companies use a few non organic compounds like Diphenyl diisocyanate or Waxes styrene-butadiene copolymer? Are these three companies supplying about the same product in term of healthiest placing marketing gimmicks aside? Thanks.

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26 May 2016 09:30 #72 by Phoenix
Hi Brent,

I am also looking for a more natural mattress. How do I know if any of these companies are telling the truth on their websites? Is it just that essentia is more brazen about their claims and they are touting new technology that can't be verified because they are hiding behind patents?


Most reputable manufacturers will give you accurate information about the type of materials they use in their mattresses. Essentia is an exception where lab testing on their natural memory foam shows that it doesn't contain any latex that shows up in the tests so the claims that they are making about their natural memory foam containing latex aren't accurate.

If I go to other sites like savvy rest and naturepedic they are claiming organic and natural too. But it looks like all three are using the same Dunlop latex. Is there really such a thing as 100% natural or do all these companies use a few non organic compounds like Diphenyl diisocyanate or Waxes styrene-butadiene copolymer? Are these three companies supplying about the same product in term of healthiest placing marketing gimmicks aside? Thanks.


Essentia does use 100% natural Dunlop latex in their base layers but it's their so called "latex memory foam" which is misleading.

The only reliable way to to assess the "safety" of different materials in more general terms is based on lab tests and the certifications they have for harmful substances and VOCs so that you have some assurance than the VOCs are below the testing limits for the certification.

Most people that are looking for an "organic" mattress are usually concerned more with "safety" than whether the materials have an actual organic certification. There is more information about the three different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and some of the benefits of an organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different types of organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and more about some of the differences between organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and there are some comments in post #42 here that can help you decide whether an organic certification is important to you for environmental, social, or personal reasons or whether a "safety" certification is enough.

All the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will have a reliable certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold, or C2C and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex to be a very "safe" material in terms of harmful substances and VOC's.

100% natural latex means that all the rubber used in the latex foam compounding formulation is natural rubber (vs synthetic rubber) but there are also small amounts of other substances used in the formulation to foam and manufacturer the latex. There is more about 100% natural latex in post #18 here ).

There is also more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here .

Phoenix

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26 May 2016 12:36 #73 by Brent
Hi Phoenix,

Ok, I think I'm catching on. The only thing in question about essentia natural claims is the top layer of foam. The other components of their mattress are what they claim. I just looked at the attacked docs on the tests. So the first two report are saying that there is no evidence of hevea milk, which essentia claim is the key ingredient, and there is evidence of mdi that on their chart, that you posted from their website, isn't checked off? The third report is saying that 97% of the foam is not natural and only 3% is natural? So it looks like they are possible lying which is certainly concerning. It's interesting that they don't defend themselves, on these forums, with proof of their claim instead of answers that don't have any validity. If my business's character was called into question I would definitely supply documented information to validate my claims for the benefit of current and future customers. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Let's say these tests aren't accurate and essentia isn't lying. It's hard to support them because you just don't know without them proving it. I guess I'll scratch them off my list.

Also, I saw you posted the FTC report but why don't the agencies that verify and certify organic and natural products go after companies that make false claims tomake it safer for consumers? Greenguard, GOTC, etc.

Thanks for all the info and posts. Do you have any post for best mattress material and firmness for lower back issues. I primarily sleep on my stomach, I know that's the worst position for your back, and sometimes my side. I know there are a lot of variables but something to get me started. Thanks again.

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26 May 2016 13:30 #74 by Phoenix
Hi Brent,

It's interesting that they don't defend themselves, on these forums, with proof of their claim instead of answers that don't have any validity. If my business's character was called into question I would definitely supply documented information to validate my claims for the benefit of current and future customers. If they aren't lying then it's hard to support them because you just don't know without them proving it. I guess I'll scratch them off my list.


They did register on the forum and replied to some questions in a couple of posts (see posts #4 - #7 in this topic ) but then they stopped posting any further replies or clarifications.

The biggest issues with Essentia are the misleading claims and information on their website along with the price of their mattresses compared to other mattresses that use a very similar 100% natural Dunlop support core with some additional foam comfort layers on top of it (either latex or memory foam). While I wouldn't dispute that they are using good quality and durable materials ... they are not as "special" as they claim to be IMO and I would have have a difficult time justifying their prices relative to other mattresses that use similar materials that are in much lower budget ranges.

Also, I saw you posted the FTC report but why don't the agencies that verify and certify organic and natural products go after companies that make false claims tomake it safer for consumers? Greenguard, GOTC, etc.


There are some recent indications that some certifying agencies are beginning to "enforce" the use of their logos but they don't have any control over manufacturer claims that don't use their specific logos and the FTC doesn't seem to have either the money, the will, the manpower, or in some cases even the clear guidelines (for claims such as "natural" or "green") that allow them to enforce claims except on a very limited basis or cases where there is clear and significant misrepesentation.

While it may be more information than you are looking for ... there is also a lot more information in post #2 here and the more detailed posts and information it links to about safe, natural, organic, "chemical free", and "green" mattresses and mattress materials that can help you sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and answer "how safe is safe enough for me" or "how natural is natural enough for me" and that can help you decide on the type of materials and components you are most comfortable having in your mattress or on the certifications that may be important to you. These types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, criteria, beliefs, and lifestyle choices.

Do you have any post for best mattress material and firmness for lower back issues. I primarily sleep on my stomach, I know that's the worst position for your back, and sometimes my side. I know there are a lot of variables but something to get me started. Thanks again.


While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress. There are just too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see post #2 here ).

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range ... the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a "better/worse" choice (see this article ). The best way to know which type of materials or which type of mattresses you tend to prefer in general terms will be based on your own testing and personal experience because different people can have very different preferences.

I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but just in case you haven't read it yet ... the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

While it's not possible to be specific ... in very general terms and based on "averages" ... side sleepers tend to need a softer mattress because the body has more curves that need to be "filled in" to provide suitable support (such as the waist) and more "pointy parts" (such as the hips and shoulders) that need to sink in more to relieve pressure when you are on your side and generally need thicker and softer upper layers that can contour to the shape of the body more effectively and more deeply. Back sleepers have less curves that need to be filled in (such as the small of the back or lumbar spine) and less "pointy" pressure points and generally do best with a little bit firmer mattress that has either thinner or firmer comfort layers to reduce the risk of their pelvis sinking into the mattress too much which can put the spine out of alignment and cause lower back pain. Stomach sleepers have the flattest and least "curvy" sleeping profile of all and so they tend to need a firmer mattress yet with thinner and/or firmer comfort layers to reduce the risk of their pelvis sinking into the mattress too much and sleeping in a swayback position which can put considerable strain on the lower back and also lead to lower back pain. Stomach sleeping is the "riskiest" sleeping position in terms of back and neck strain (the head is turned sideways which can strain the neck). Putting a thin pillow under the pelvis/lower abdomen may also help prevent stomach sleepers from sleeping in a swayback position.

Having said all that ... not everyone fits into the "averages" so the only way to know whether any mattress is a good "match" for you and how well you will sleep on it will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience when you sleep on it.

Phoenix

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14 Jul 2016 11:42 #75 by Wilson420
Thanks for all the great info here about the false claims and so on. Forgive me if it's been stated in this thread already or in another thread but are there any discussions or answers about how toxic these MyEssentia mattresses are in reality and in what way?

It seems rather clear that these mattresses do off-gas to a noticable extent, as one poster mentioned a sweet vanilla smell which would appear to be toxic.. Does anyone else have experience using these beds and what other smells are coming off them after long-term use?

I understand some tests have been done on the foam/rubber/latex or whatever mystery materials they use. I also understand the misleading and all that, but could I have the results of the tests explained to me in terms of toxicity as they relate to VOCs or whatever else the harmful aspect of these mattresses is?

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14 Jul 2016 12:37 - 14 Jul 2016 12:42 #76 by Phoenix
Hi Wilson420,

Thanks for all the great info here about the false claims and so on. Forgive me if it's been stated in this thread already or in another thread but are there any discussions or answers about how toxic these MyEssentia mattresses are in reality and in what way?

It seems rather clear that these mattresses do off-gas to a noticable extent, as one poster mentioned a sweet vanilla smell which would appear to be toxic.. Does anyone else have experience using these beds and what other smells are coming off them after long-term use?


The only reliable way to to assess the "safety" of different materials in more general terms is based on lab tests and the certifications they have for harmful substances and VOCs so that you have some assurance than the VOCs are below the testing limits for the certification (see post #2 here for more information about some of the more reliable "safety" certifications). If the materials in a mattress or the mattress itself has a reliable "safety" certification then for most people they would certainly be "safe enough" ... regardless of the type of material or the name of the manufacturer on the label.

The latex in the Essentia mattresses have an Oeko-Tex certification and the glue they use is Greenguard Gold certified but the memory foam they use doesn't have a specific certification. Having said that ... they did test one of their previous mattresses (the Classic Skinny) which contained 2" of their memory foam and according to their test results the testing would pass the Greenguard standards although they don't mention whether it would have passed the Greenguard Gold standard which is usually used for mattresses.

Assuming that the memory foam they are currently using is the same as the memory foam that was in the Classic Skinny I would consider their mattress to be "safe enough" although they don't have an actual Greenguard or Greenguard Gold certification and it would be nice to see a more current certification that applied to their current mattresses so that their customers could have more confidence that their current memory foam has a certification that is normally used for mattress materials.

I would also keep in mind that the smell of a material isn't an indication of whether it is harmful or not because some harmful VOC's have no smell at all and some VOC's that are completely safe have a much stronger smell (such as natural rubber, natural wool, or even a rose).

I understand some tests have been done on the foam/rubber/latex or whatever mystery materials they use.


The materials they use certainly aren't a mystery. Most of their mattresses use a base layer of 100% natural latex with comfort layers that are good quality/density memory foam (not latex).

Outside of the misleading information on their website ... the biggest issue with Essentia mattresses isn't "safety" or durability but that their mattresses are in significantly higher price ranges than other mattresses that use similar types of materials that would also be "safe enough" based on their certifications for harmful substances and VOC's..

Phoenix

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Last edit: 14 Jul 2016 12:42 by Phoenix.

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14 Jul 2016 15:18 #77 by Wilson420
Thanks for the explanation. I'm cautious of memory foam because I've encountered some memory foams in the past where the smell of them actually made me dizzy and noxious so I would say that I'm more sensitive than most people. Other people in the house didn't smell anything and yet I could smell the fumes coming off the foam even from another room. As you mentioned before, we all certainly have different sensitivities.

This thread is a great resource anyway for those who seek a wide variety of answers. What I gained is that there really isn't anything special about their "natural memory foam." I guess the confusing part is the fact that some people have stated that no, it's not actually memory foam, it's a type of latex foam that mimics memory foam. Either way it's too confusing for me and I've lost confidence in the brand. I agree that they should market their products for what they actually are.

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14 Jul 2016 15:35 - 14 Jul 2016 15:37 #78 by Phoenix
Hi Wilson420,

This thread is a great resource anyway for those who seek a wide variety of answers. What I gained is that there really isn't anything special about their "natural memory foam." I guess the confusing part is the fact that some people have stated that no, it's not actually memory foam, it's a type of latex foam that mimics memory foam.


There are some lab test results of their so called "natural memory foam" in this post and the testing indicates that it doesn't contain latex or natural or "bio based" materials.

Phoenix

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Last edit: 14 Jul 2016 15:37 by Phoenix.

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22 Jun 2018 09:43 - 22 Jun 2018 18:02 #79 by mikez
Hi Phoenix,

Thank you so much for your in depth info.

When I found out about claims of a natural memory foam , reading this thread turned me off any further research on that.
Last edit: 22 Jun 2018 18:02 by mikez.

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22 Jun 2018 19:57 #80 by Phoenix
Hi mikez.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

I certainly understand your feelings... the good news is that there are many manufacturers that have consumer’s best interest at heart.

Phoenix

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