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Celsion Latex? 26 Apr 2012 10:42 #1

First post to your mattress forum, so please be gentle...:)

My wife and I have been contemplating getting a new mattress and have vowed not to get a traditional inner spring/coil construction product. We have looked at several memory foam mattresses, as well as the Select Comfort inflatables. We have been underwhelmed by most of them, or in the case of the memory foam products, appalled at the price.

This past weekend we were at our local Costco (we are located in North Alabama) and they had one of their "traveling road shows" of mattresses in the store. The brand was Spring Air and the line was the Back Supporter latex (they had three "models"). Neither of us had tried a latex constructed bed and after about 15 minutes of laying on the mattress, we really liked the feel of the Exhilaration. While I have done some fairly extensive reading on your site, I am still somewhat uncertain what some of the terminology means and what the quality is of this particular mattress. Here are the specs as taken from their literature:

Fabric: Organic Cotton with Silverness
Upholstery: 1" Temperature-regulating Latex
Upholstery: 2" Medium Firm Latex
Support Core: 8" HD Plant-Based Polyurethane
Foundation: 9" Eco-Wood
Warranty: 10 years Non-prorated
Mattress Height: 11"
Set Height: 20"
Price: about $1850.00 (king)

They call the latex "temperature-regulating Celsion Latex." Is that Dunlop or Talalay? Is 3" of actual latex enough for a 54 year old side sleeper with a build of 6", 200lbs (that's me, not my wife...:) )? We really liked the feel of this bed, especially compared to others we had laid on. The rep said you have one year from the date of purchase to return the mattress unconditionally, and of course, Costco returns are always effortless. They also have a model called the Slumber that adds a 1" layer of plush latex for a total of 4" of latex, but it felt too soft.

We are Executive Club members at Costco, so we'll get 2% back on the purchase, as well as 1% from American Express. We have most of the regular mattress stores here locally, but most of them seem to be the typical my-product-is-better-than-theirs type places. We currently have a coil Denver Mattress and had been very happy with it until just recently. I am beginning to feel coils and am not sleeping very well at all. Does Denver have a latex model?

We are not opposed to trying other latex type mattresses, or other types period, if the cost/value match up, though we really want to try something other than coil.

Thanks in advance. You have a very impressive website with an enormous amount of helpful and educational information.

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Re: Celsion Latex? 26 Apr 2012 18:28 #2

Hi tydfan,

First post to your mattress forum, so please be gentle...


I have my kid gloves on :)

The Spring Air back supporter is basically a latex/polyfoam hybrid with 3" of talalay (in two layers one of which is the Celsion) over 8" of polyfoam. This would be "in the range" in terms of thickness for a "54 year old side sleeper with a build of 6", 200lbs " but your own testing would say more than theory. They don't give the ILD (firmness levels) of the latex or the support core but if your testing indicated it was good for both pressure relief on your side and for alignment in all your sleeping positions with you on the mattress for about 15 minutes and completely relaxed (so the mattress is supporting you rather than any tension in your muscles) then this is always more accurate than going by general guidelines.

Celsion is talalay latex made by Latex International which has what's called "phase change" materials added to it to allow it to better regulate temperature and sleep a few degrees cooler than their regular talalay. It's used in the top layer of a mattress and has 3 different ILD's available.

The Exhilaration would be a good choice in terms of construction because the weak link of a mattress is usually in the upper layers and it uses high quality materials there. While the price is "somewhat" reasonable compared to many mass market choices ... it's a little on the high side compared to other choices that may be available to you. Denver Mattress makes two "mostly latex" mattresses called the Aspen and the Snowmass . Both of these use substantially more latex in their mattress than the exhilaration but are both less in price. They also use an inch of polyfoam in the upper layers which is inside the maximum I normally would suggest people consider so they would be well worth including in your testing. The specs are listed on their site.

If you let me know which city you live in or your zip I'll also be happy to look if there are any other manufacturers or outlets near you that I know of that would also be worth considering. One that would be well worth a call if they are close enough would be royalbeddinginc.com/ . They are a factory direct manufacturer and Tom (the owner) there is a great guy and very helpful. He just came out with a two sided all latex mattress which is very good value.

Phoenix
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Re: Celsion Latex? 27 Apr 2012 15:58 #3

Thank you so much for the info, it was very, very helpful.

The Costco "show" only runs through Sunday, so I guess we will be making a trip to Denver Mattress this afternoon to look at those models.

We are just north of the Huntsville, Al area, a basic zip code to use would be 35801. Royal Bedding/Pelham, Al is about 110 miles south of us. Nashville is about 100 north of us. Delivery costs could be an issue depending upon the cost/savings in purchasing the bedding, and taking trips to those locations to test models would get pricey at $4 gallon for gas. So something local would have to be available.

Thanks again. If there are viable options in addition to Denver Mattress, we will let the "show" expire to give us time to make the right choice. I suspect that the Spring Air's will be available on the Costco website at some point.

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Re: Celsion Latex? 27 Apr 2012 17:27 #4

Hi tydefan,

I think that post #2 here may be of help :)

In particular ... Jamison is a regional manufacturer which makes some good quality Talalay latex mattresses both in "all latex" versions and in hybrid latex/polyfoam versions (like the Spring Air).

You can check the Jamison website for outlets close to you (with your zip code) but I did talk to Butlers Home Furnishings in Athens and they carry a range of the Jamison latex on their floor. the person I talked to also is very informed about mattress construction and materials which I liked. They would be well worth a call and possibly a trip if you are close enough. They don't have a website

universityfurnituregallery.com/ in Huntsville also carries a wide range of Jamison (over 20 models) on their floor including latex and their gel memory foam. Most of these are likely to be more traditional mattresses rather than memory foam or latex specialty mattresses.

Lily Flag Furniture in Huntsville also carries Jamison (As well as Symbol both of which are made in the region) but they don't have any on the floor. They also seemed to be quite knowledgeable and do provide a cutaway of the layering for them though and can order any of their mattresses. They also don't have a website.

I would probably suggest a bit of phone work to get a sense of prices and the "feel" of the outlet itself (for these and any of the the other options in the other linked threads that catch your interest) which will make it much easier to decide if they are worth a trip for those that are further away. The goal is to find outlets that are more focused on heping to "educate" you than they are focused on just "selling" you.

In addition to the Spring Air, you have some good choices both locally and within reasonable driving distance.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Re: Celsion Latex? 19 Aug 2012 16:35 #5

It's been quite an undertaking since our initial conversation. We made the trip to Denver Mattress, but did not care at all for their Aspen or Snowmass latex mattresses. I did some telephone work in reference to the Jamison products, but although the local outlets say they carry them, they have very few models and don't seem particularly knowledgeable, a trait we have encountered at most stores we have visited.

Here's where it gets all convoluted...while we were at Denver Mattress my wife tried out a Simmons Beauty Rest Black called the Abriana. It is a traditional coil spring design, extra firm, that I tried out as well, and really liked. I have approached this entire process with the thought that I was NOT going to buy another coil spring item, but I truly liked the feel of this one, even compared to some very pricey memory foam and the few latex constructed mattresses we laid on. I've checked out a few specs on the Abriana, and here is what I found:

Mattress Height

Mattress 13"
Standard Box Spring 9"
Low Profile Box Spring 5 1/2"

Padded Layers

Fire Resistance Certified
1" GelTouch
1" Luxury Firm Comfort Foam
1/2" AirCool Memory Foam
1 1/2" Energy Foam

Support System

Varifoam Advanced Pocketed Coil
Ventilated Advanced AirCool BeautyEdge Foam Encasement
1/2" Energy Foam
Coil Gauge : 15
Coil Counts
Twin 528
Twin XL 576
Full 726
Queen 900
King 1152
Cal King 1178

Foundation

Triton European Foundation

Warranty

25 Year Warranty Against Manufacturer's Defects
15 Years Non-prorated 10 Years Prorated
No Flip, No Rotate

I haven't called Simmons to get anything more specific, and the people at Denver (and Sears, who also carry it) didn't have anything more specific either. The price at Denver for the set is $2299 ($2499 at Sears), the mattress alone is $1799 ($1869 at Sears), with a $200 rebate at Denver, a $300 rebate at Sears, two free pillows at either place, and Denver has a TV/tablet promotion going on as well. Denver is also going to give me a 10% law enforcement discount. But....that is all moot if this is not a mattress that will last a reasonable amount of years.

I am very conflicted at this point. I still like the Spring Air that started this search, but I can't find the Exhilaration anywhere, even on the Costco website. I haven't tried to call Spring Air, but it bothers me that a Google search nets virtually no substantive results. We have ruled out memory foam for some personal reasons. So that leaves me with trying to find the Spring Air, or go with the Simmons. Help!

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Last edit: by tydfan.

Re: Celsion Latex? 20 Aug 2012 01:07 #6

Hi tydfan,

It's been quite an undertaking since our initial conversation. We made the trip to Denver Mattress, but did not care at all for their Aspen or Snowmass latex mattresses.


Regardless of the quality or value of a mattress ... if they don't "work" for you ... then of course they would have little value for you. That's unfortunate.

I did some telephone work in reference to the Jamison products, but although the local outlets say they carry them, they have very few models and don't seem particularly knowledgeable, a trait we have encountered at most stores we have visited.


Did you call the outlets that I listed? Some of them seemed to be fairly well informed and one of them had 20 Jamison models on their floor according to what they told me on the phone. Were they feeding me a line?

Here's where it gets all convoluted...while we were at Denver Mattress my wife tried out a Simmons Beauty Rest Black called the Abriana. It is a traditional coil spring design, extra firm, that I tried out as well, and really liked. I have approached this entire process with the thought that I was NOT going to buy another coil spring item, but I truly liked the feel of this one, even compared to some very pricey memory foam and the few latex constructed mattresses we laid on. I've checked out a few specs on the Abriana, and here is what I found:


Unfortunately ... none of these are "quality specs" and say nothing about the density/quality of the materials in the mattress. It's also not very likely that you will be able to get any meaningful specs about the Beautyrest Black because they don't supply them. Without knowing the details of the layers ... it is wise to assume that there is more low quality foam than you would want in a mattress in this price range. You can go down the road of trying to track down the materials but it will lead to dead ends and if you are somewhat successful in finding partial information ... you will find in each case that the quality/value is low. I truly wouldn't recommend a major brand because you may be buying a mattress that feels good now but it is much more effective to buy a mattress that not only feels good in a showroom but that you know will feel just as good in a year or two down the road. IMO ... this is really not the way to go unless you are OK with the risk you would be taking.

Just a few examples include ...

1" GelTouch: Needs density information

1" Luxury Firm Comfort Foam: Needs density information. Most likely 1.5 lb polyfoam or less

1/2" AirCool Memory Foam: Needs density information. Most likely lower density 3.5 lb memory foam.

1 1/2" Energy Foam: This is likely a little higher quality HD polyfoam but still unknown density/quality

For me ... there would be too many question marks and too high a risk of using lower quality materials to consider this and this is the type of mattress that much of this site warns about ... a major brand that uses lower quality materials and is overpriced. The coil system is good but the weak link is the layers above the coils. The warranty coverage is mostly meaningless with mattresses today because the biggest issue is foam softening and loss of comfort and support which is not covered by any warranty.

The Spring Air is a fairly common construction with 3" of talalay latex over a polyfoam support core. Jamison has a similar mattress and there are others as well. Even the Costco road show sells it for less than the prices you mentioned (you can post #6 here ) but either way the prices are on the high side. If you are comfortable with ordering online ... then there are even better values with similar constructions. I would focus on the materials ... not the brand and especially not the model name which can change from retailer to retailer.

A couple of examples of similar constructions (not the same but 3" of latex over polyfoam) are ...

www.latexmattresscompany.com/king-natural-7-zoned-latex-mattress.html

www.amazon.com/s/ref=bl_sr_home-garden?_encoding=UTF8&field-brandtextbin=Dreamfoam%20Bedding&node=1055398

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Re: Celsion Latex? 20 Aug 2012 12:50 #7

Waving the white flag on "major brand" mattresses.

We will make a personal trip to University Furniture Galleries locally. University does not have a very good reputation for price and/or selection and when I called them they said they have one Jamison latex mattress, the Marbella, which is a latex topper over foam, and the price for a king is about $1800. He initially told me they had over 20 Jamison mattresses, but when pressed, he said they had one latex model actually on the floor, and at the time, that is what I was looking for. He did carry the 100% latex Jamison at one time, but said it was so expensive he could not sell them.

The Ultimate Dreams mattress is quite intriguing. The 48 Amazon reviews under the queen size (we need a king, but I suppose the size doesn't really matter with regard to user reviews) render a 4.9 on a 5 scale. Under the king size there are nine reviews, all 5's. I typically would have no problem purchasing an item online, but those are items that I know the model number of and have been able to see in a store. A mattress is a very personal-feel type item and not being able to try it out on a sales floor is a huge leap of consumer faith. I take it from other comments on this website that the Ultimate Dreams is very well thought of with regard to construction materials and the price is certainly right. Selecting a comfort level is also unique, I assume "Chuck" will be able to give me some good advice based on sleeping positions, height, weight, etc. I tried to call the company to determine their return policy, but got a voice recording.

I'm still trying to run down an outlet for the Spring Air Exhilaration, but comparing the price to the Ultimate Dreams mattress, it's hard to imagine paying $1800 when I can pay $700.

The information provided on this website is invaluable and I can't imagine the hours you must spend on here answering many of the same questions over and over. Please know that your time and effort is very much appreciated.

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Last edit: by tydfan.

Re: Celsion Latex? 20 Aug 2012 13:54 #8

A mattress is a very personal-feel type item and not being able to try it out on a sales floor is a huge leap of consumer faith. I take it from other comments on this website that the Ultimate Dreams is very well thought of with regard to construction materials and the price is certainly right.


I purchased the Ultimate Dreams mattress and yes, it was very nerve wracking buying a mattress online. Don't get me wrong - I'm very pleased with my purchase, but the week after I hit the 'buy' button until I got the mattress I questioned my sanity. :) The 'UNKNOWN' factor is a big deal and should play a part in your own personal decision.

One new option that is offered by Brooklyn Bedding is the Eurotop Latex Mattress that wasn't available when I purchased. This option is nearly identical in construction but has a zippered top that allows you to swap out the top comfort layer. It costs a bit more, but it also would provides an option to swap out the top layer if it doesn't suit you. If I were purchasing again this one would tempt me since it's normally the upper layers that wear out first anyways.

Anyways, I just wanted to mention that option since it would give me a bit more 'peace of mind' as a consumer buying a mattress online. You can see my review on the Ultimate Dreams (King size) under 'cinnamonsticks' and here under 'Coventry'.

I wish you luck on your mattress hunting. :)

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Re: Celsion Latex? 20 Aug 2012 18:11 #9

Hi tydfan,

Hmmm ... I guess what they told me about having 20 mattresses on the floor may have been true but they certainly didn't indicate that their latex selection was so limited even though that was the subject of the conversation.

Hopefully they are not the only option in the area that carries the Jamison latex.

The "specs" of the Marbella are here and they are very comparable in terms of general construction to the Ultimate Dreams. They both have 3" of talalay latex over a high quality polyfoam core with a similar polyfoam quilting layer. They are also somewhat similar to the Spring Air that you mentioned before although it didn't appear that the Spring Air had a polyfoam quilting layer over the latex.

In cases like this ... the "local value" of a particular mattress would depend on many factors which includes the value and benefits of buying a "known" mattress that you can personally test or that may have some kind of comfort exchange policy or even an "unknown difference" that maybe important to you compared to an online outlet where the mattress can be customized but the purchase is final. It may also be worth considering the Eurotop which is $300 more but has less risk because the custom latex layer can be exchanged for a different firmness level after the purchase for a small fee if that is necessary.

It's also important to make sure that as far as possible that any comparisons are "apples to apples" and that you are comparing "mattress only" to "mattress only" prices in the same size.

While there may be differences in "feel" between all three of these ... it seems to me that the "premium" you would pay for this particular local purchase (along with the Spring Air that you mentioned before) may be significant and that either a better local value with a similar construction or an online purchase may be worth some serious consideration. Compared to other mattresses that may be available locally such as the Sealy Embody Insightful (which uses a much lower quality and cost synthetic latex) ... the Jamison or the Spring Air may have better value but none of these are in the "best value" range IMO.

All of this can lead to some tough choices of course with the various tradeoffs and uncertainties that are involved with any mattress purchase.

I wish there were some "profound" things I could say that would somehow make the choices easier but in the end each of us needs to decide for ourselves the level of "risk" we are comfortable with and the relative value of our competing choices.

Phoenix

PS: I noticed as I was about to post this that Coventry also mentioned the Eurotop option but I left my comments in so that you would have two voices mentioning the same thing :)
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Re: Celsion Latex? 20 Aug 2012 21:28 #10

I'll assume (dangerous I know) that with similar construction the Marbella may not have an exactly comparable "feel" to the Ultimate Dreams, but maybe it would give us another rough idea about what to expect. We haven't really found many options for latex in this area, and what we have tried we were not impressed (I was moderateley pleased with the Spring Air, my wife is not convinced), but I will try Butler to see how many/what they have on their sales floor.

I'm having a somewhat difficult time (and quite frankly my wife is too) buying a mattress online without being able to lay on it. But it seems the Eurotop might actually be the way to go. Hopefully without putting you on the spot, do you know how much the "small fee" is to exchange the latex layer? Do I incur shipping charges to return the old one or get the new one? I guess I can always call Chuck, so if you are uncomfortable answering those questions, I understand.

Again, I really, really appreciate the information, opinion, and direction that you give. It is obvious you are passionate about what you do and you provide an invaluable conduit for authoritative information. Thanks!

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