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Classic Mattress Blissful 11 Mattress 29 May 2012 16:11 #1

I really appreciate this site. I have gained a lot of confidence reading the info on mattress construction. My last mattress purchase 8 years ago was a huge mistake. It is a spring air and has probably been the issue with my back and sleep problems for years I just didn't put two and two together until now.

My first mattress that I am looking at is the Classic Brand Blissful 11 sold by sears. The ad by sears seemed to contradict itself saying the core was latex but then said "the support layer was polyurethane" I looked up the manufacturer and their site's description said the same thing without the assertion that the core was latex. Here is what I asked them and their responses. It seems like a good mattress to me based on what I have read. I just want to get your input and opinion on it. (and on the price of $2600)

sears site: www.sears.com/classic-brands-blissful-11inch-latex-queen-mattress/p-08210751000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

Email to classic brands: claims@classicmattress.com
I am looking at buying the classic brand blissful 11'' mattress but sears and your site leave some of my questions unanswered. I hope you can answer them.
1. The writeup in your site says the support layer is higher density polyurathane foam. What is the density in lbs per square foot?
2. What are the depths of each layer? How deep is the poly layer and the laytex one? Are there any other layers in the construction?
3. You say the latex is natural latex. (not sbr? is that right?) Is the latex Dunlop or Talalay? What is the ILD?
Thanks Karen Grider

Their short but informative response from abby fagbayi <abby@classicbrands.com>

Hello,

Blissful 11”

-1.5” Dunlop Latex 12-15ILD

-1” Dunlop Latex 15-19ILD

-3” Dunlop Latex 28-32ILD

-5.5” 1.8LB Poly Base Foam


Thanks

Abby Fagbayi

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Re: Classic Mattress Blissful 11 Mattress 29 May 2012 20:11 #2

Hi Ilovemywillow,

Perhaps not surprisingly ... I do have a few comments about this mattress :)

The ILD's seem suspiciously low for natural Dunlop although there are new foaming methods being used which can lead to softer versions of Dunlop latex (and they didn't answer the SBR part of your question).

There is only 5.5" of latex in the mattress over the polyfoam core.

For this type of construction ... the price is very high compared to higher quality mattresses that are offered by other manufacturers and outlets for significantly less. Post #21 here has a list of the members here who specialize in selling online, offer good knowledge and guidance, and will give you many much better quality/value choices.

In addition to this ... the only way I would make a purchase from an outlet that knows little about the mattresses they are selling (and likely has little idea about how to fit a mattress to a person over the phone) would be if I was willing to "roll the dice" and buy from an outlet that offered a 100% money back guarantee (including shipping). According to the Sears refund policy ... you have to pay the return shipping and a 15% fee for returns. For me ... this and the lack of "mattress knowledge" would exclude them from consideration unless I knew for sure that the mattress was perfect for my needs and preferences and there was little to no chance I would want to return it. Even here though ... the price would put it out of contention for me.

As an example ... a higher quality "all latex" version of the blissful is being sold here which apparently includes 4" of talalay and a latex base for much less.

Overall ... this is not a direction I would personally consider because the price and the risk would both be way too high.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Re: Classic Mattress Blissful 11 Mattress 29 May 2012 21:57 #3

Thanks for the detailed answer. Wow! I knew you would have some input I hadn't thought of. I did think it was very expensive ($2600 was the sale price). My intention is not to buy online necessarily since I think I should lay on it before I buy it. My search just took me there first. The two stores I have looked at were not very informative and actually told me things that were not true. The sales rep at Ashley furniture here in Memphis, Tn said that the memory foam will not break in and will be exactly like it is when i purchased it 10 years down the road. I was looking at their embody by sealy I think. After reading some of the exchange between you and another member I was glad I did not get that one. They were digging deep for me to buy it right there. Not "breaking in" is something I know this isn't true. Sears, well they were just not informed. The woman I spoke to on the phone had to put me on hold for about 10 minutes just to get some answers to my questions such as "what no foundation in this price?" The sears blissful 11 would have been over $3200 after the foundation was added in. Thank you for your input. I'll read the info you provided and let you know what I find. I am sure I will have more questions.

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Re: Classic Mattress Blissful 11 Mattress 30 May 2012 13:33 #4

I went to the link you provided (usbeds.com) for the all latex version of a similar mattress and it is actually the same mattress but with a description as being all latex (and talalay). I emailed usbeds and asked if it was the same as the classic brand blissful 11 and he said yes. If it is the same mattress then they are mistaken since the manufacturer says it has a poly core and dunlap latex. I am hoping they are mistaken and that its just a different model. I haven't heard back from them but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt. Their price is much better. I am starting to see what you were saying about the misinformation out there. Three sources describe the same mattress in three different ways.

I am hesitant in any case to buy online unless you have experience with it having some advantages. Are there any? like maybe more choices? Love the links you provided in Post #21. I am still looking at them.

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Re: Classic Mattress Blissful 11 Mattress 30 May 2012 17:20 #5

Hi ilovemywillow,

I have dealt with USBeds (Olejo) and talked with Daniel there a fair bit about their mattresses (I bought my adjustable there) and I know that they have a good relationship with Classic Brands and at that time they were able to make custom adjustments to the "standard" layering (this was with a different mattress at the time). This is what made me think it was possible that their version was different from the "norm".

In cases like this ... the law tag would be valuable because any polyfoam in the mattress would be listed there as a percentage of weight.

Overall though, I much prefer a local purchase when the quality and value, and the knowledge and service of the outlet you are dealing with warrants it because you can both test the mattress for your own unique needs and preferences and questions such as this can be more easily answered (by looking at the law tag for example).

In those areas where the quality/value/knowledge is not available ... then an online purchase can make a lot of sense but only when you are dealing with an outlet that is knowledgeable and transparent about their materials and also has the knowledge and skill to provide good guidance about the choices they have available that can help you make the best decision. It is also helpful when buying online to make sure you know what your options are if "best efforts" still lead to a mattress that may not be quite right. Layer exchanges or in the case of buying from an outlet that doesn't have a lot of knowledge about mattresses ... a complete knowledge of the refund policy including the fine details of any hidden costs (such as shipping and any fees or penalties) are a very important part of the purchase. When you are buying online ... the knowledge, experience, service, and policies of the outlet you are buying from can be even more important than which mattress you choose.

This is why a list like the one I linked to (all of which are members here and I know are among the "best of the best") can be the most important first step in an online purchase. While they all offer different options and each person may prefer the options at one over another for their own reasons ... all of them offer quality, service, and value and between them have a very wide range of choices and designs available.

One of the most important parts of mattress shopping can be choosing the best outlet before you even consider which mattress may be best for you. This can save a lot of time, frustration, and research into a very complex subject where misinformation is much more common than accurate information.

I am hesitant in any case to buy online unless you have experience with it having some advantages. Are there any? like maybe more choices? Love the links you provided in Post #21. I am still looking at them.


Local testing with the guidance (whenever possible) of a knowledgeable person would always be my first step regardless of where I ended up purchasing (either locally or online). Theory and specs can never replace personal experience although it can provide a helpful guideline. There are many advantages to having good online choices available when the quality and value they provide is significantly better than a local purchase. The difference would need to be big enough to make up for the additional risk though so whether I went in this direction would depend entirely on what was available locally (both in terms of mattresses, and outlets). I personally would pay a reasonable premium to purchase locally because of the value of testing a mattress personally rather than going by theory or "averages". When the difference is enough to offset the additional risk though I would seriously consider an online purchase. While this would vary from person to person and their individual "risk tolerance" ... a reasonable difference IMO would be about 20%. This would also depend on the confidence level of each person that they knew exactly what they both needed and preferred.

Some of the better options in Memphis are included in post #2 here .

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Re: Classic Mattress Blissful 11 Mattress 14 Jun 2012 12:33 #6

:)
Thanks for your help and the help of this site. I would have been totally clueless about this if I hadn't found this site. I called many of the local outlets you recommended and it ended up olejo.com was the best option for me. Dan was knowledgeable and helpful. They also accept Bill me later for 6 months no interest. I asked him if he could cut the shipping cost and he knocked off $50. I ended up paying $2507 which includes the $99 shipping fee and they will bring it upstairs and install it for me. Its less than Sears was charging for the poly core mattress which was $2600 and that didn't include the foundation, mattress cover, tax, or delivery.

Well here is what I ended up doing. After reading your site I decided that I wanted a latex mattress. I need a very firm mattress too. I called Dan back at Olejo.com after he emailed me about the blissful 11". He said that the mattress he was talking about was the Classic Mattress but it was customized to be all latex. He is very helpful and said he could customize it for me to be extra firm. The mattress consisted of these layers 1" Talalay ild 22, 3" talalay ild 30 and 7" latex core that is ild 40 (I can't remember what kind of latex he said it was). He said that would be a medium firmness. I asked him for a very firm mattress and he suggested ild's of 28, 30, 40. I ordered the mattress but can alter it for 24 hours if I decide it will be too firm. My current mattress is really bad and I can't sleep there anymore. I have been sleeping on my couch which is very firm and sleeping great. From what I read on your site the support core is firm but the comfort layers is on the medium range. I was wondering if that would equal a firm but comfortable mattress. I figure if it is too firm then I can always get a latex topper that is soft. I'd rather err on the firm side than soft.

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Re: Classic Mattress Blissful 11 Mattress 14 Jun 2012 17:03 #7

Hi ilovemywillow,

He said that would be a medium firmness. I asked him for a very firm mattress and he suggested ild's of 28, 30, 40. I ordered the mattress but can alter it for 24 hours if I decide it will be too firm. My current mattress is really bad and I can't sleep there anymore. I have been sleeping on my couch which is very firm and sleeping great. From what I read on your site the support core is firm but the comfort layers is on the medium range. I was wondering if that would equal a firm but comfortable mattress. I figure if it is too firm then I can always get a latex topper that is soft. I'd rather err on the firm side than soft.


While I can't give you any specific advice because I don't know any of the variables of your height/weight/body shape and sleeping positions and preferences and because I don't have any reference points of the layering of specific mattress that you have tested and were suitable ... I can give you some general guidelines that may apply.

Terms like "firm" and "medium firm" really have little meaning because each person uses them in different ways. What is firm to one person may be very soft to another. Some people use "firm" to describe the comfort layers because this is what they are most sensitive to. Some use it to describe the degree of support because this is what they are most sensitive to. Others yet use it to describe the overall subjective feeling of the mattress which would vary for each person depending on how they and the mattress interacted.

Having said all that ... even the firmest mattresses will usually have layers of very soft materials in the top layers because this is necessary to isolate the sleeper from the firmness of the support materials which for most people would be too firm to sleep on. With very firm support layers ... then the use of very soft foam on top can result in a firm feeling mattress because the foam is so soft that you will go right through it and feel the firmness of the lower layers more than you would if the upper foam was firmer.

In your case ... an inch of softer (22 ILD) latex would not be an issue in support and for most people would be a good idea. The next 3" 30 ILD layer down would be firmer than the upper layers of most "commercial" mattresses (even the firm ones) and would be considered "medium". The suitability of this in terms of thickness and ILD would depend on the "stats" and preferences of the person that was using the mattress. It would be "firmer than average". The 40 ILD support layer below this would be considered very firm. This could be described as "medium (on top) firm (in the support layers).

If you were to change the top layer to 28 ... then this too would be "medium" and there would be less softer foam on top which may not give you the hand feel or surface softness that would normally be the preference of most people and is usually part of even the most firm mattresses. It would not be a huge difference (because you are only considering a change in a single 1" layer to the next level up) but it would give you less softness on the top of the mattress.

Again this would all depend on knowing a reference point of mattresses you had tried and liked and your "stats" to be any more specific. Either way ... if the mattresses were too firm (because of the upper comfort layers) then as you mention you could add a topper without the risk of already having too much soft foam in the comfort/quilting layers of the mattress. Don't forget that 'firm" and "comfortable" (in the sense of pressure relief) are opposites and don't really exist together in the same material in most cases except to a more limited degree. The different layers of a mattress are designed to provide softness (which is normally "translated" as pressure relief or "comfort") and firmness (which is usually translated as support or alignment) and most people need different degrees of both rather than just one or the other.

The fact that you like your couch indicates that a firmness in the area of high 20's to low 30's (which would be typical) and also tend to use high performance foams with a high sag factor (which can have a wider range of softness and firmness with compression) seems to work well for you but here again the thickness of the foam layers (thickness can play as big a role as softness) and knowing what is under it and knowing the specific ILD's and type of foam in your couch (which may not be possible to find out) would be more helpful because couches come in a wide variety of "comfort levels" and use many different types of foam.

It it seems to me that you are "in the range" with either of your choices but some kind of reference point with known numbers (and your own stats and sleeping positions) would be necessary to know which way may be "best" to go. I would tend towards having a thin layer of softer foam over layers that were firmer but again this too is preference and would also depend on the "missing" information.

Hope this helps

Phoenix
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Last edit: by Phoenix.

Re: Classic Mattress Blissful 11 Mattress 14 Jun 2012 21:53 #8

After reading your site i thought that going with latex would be durable and my last mattress wasn't. I laid on several beds that I liked as far as firmess goes were the Tempurpedic Rhapsody which felt firm to me, and the Tempurpedic cloud-luxe which felt firm but soft on top. I laid on the Sealy Radience Gel foam and liked it too. All of these were almost the firmest I found. Sterns and Foster latex was totally different. It was synthetic latex. I tried the Highland Villa LTX and it felt firm like I want but different than the others. I know this may not mean a lot to you since I don't know the ild's. The salesmen were not very informative about the ild's and the contents. One told me that there were no industry standards or measurements for firmness. I think he was talking about if I was comparing the sterns and foster latex to the tempurpedic. What I found was that one felt good on the firm side and the other (specifically the S&F) felt bad on the firm side. After talking with Dan at olejo.com about how I can get an idea of what I am buying before I actually buy it he said I can only try it and exchange it if I don't like it. He said there are no all talalay mattresses in stores for me to lie on. He said its the best material and custom ordered so there are no furniture stores like that. He said he was confident that I would like the ilds we chose for the layers 28, 30, 40 much better than the 22, 30, 40 if it is a firm mattress I like. If I didn't I could put a talalay topper on it or exchange it for a softer feel. It does seem a little like a gamble to order online. Its a best guess really and with your help and the help of your site. I want a foam mattress and chose latex because it is durable and somewhere in your material I read that it had the texture like angelfood cake as opposed to Dunlop which is like poundcake. I don't have stats for the mattresses I tried but found i liked the firmest or the next to firmest one's i tried. I dont like to squish into the surface of the mattress but like to feel it slowly give as I lie there.

As far as what you asked me: I start off on my back and after awhile I roll over on my side. With my current mattress I have to hug a pillow if I roll over on my side just so I can have some support. I think this mattress has been bad for awhile. I am 5'6" and weigh 167lbs. I am "hippy" so that part of the bed gets the most pressure.

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Re: Classic Mattress Blissful 11 Mattress 14 Jun 2012 23:37 #9

Hi ilovemywillow,

There are actually several larger manufacturers that make all latex mattresses (off the top of my head ... Pure Latex Bliss, Restonic, and Spring air) although some of them do include some firm polyfoam on the very bottom as a stabilization layer. There are also many local and regional manufacturers that make all latex mattresses as well that are available all over the country.

The only way to really know how a particular mattress may feel is to test something that has similar layering and then "translate" the differences into a "guesstimate" about how it may affect the mattress you are considering. This can take some experience and knowledge and is a combination of knowing more "technical" specs and intuition.

My general guideline is that if you are uncertain and the differences are minor (which in this case where we are talking about a single level of firmness in a 1" layer) then it's usually safer to go firmer than softer because it's much easier to add softness than to add firmness to a mattress.

Your comparison of Dunlop and Talalay (angel food cake vs Pound cake) is somewhat accurate and Talalay is a less dense foam with a more even and "springy" cell structure.

Bear in mind too that latex is a fast response foam and doesn't "slowly" give like memory foam.

Ordering online always involves greater risk than testing a mattress in person but there can also be advantages (such as price, mattress or layer exchange policies, no taxes, and others). What is most important to each person can be quite different and the differences between each method of purchasing and each outlet is part of each person's "value equation". There is no "better" or "worse" here ... only differences that are more attractive to some and less attractive to others :)

Hope this helps

Phoenix
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