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02 Aug 2018 19:54 #361 by Phoenix

Hi Uncafeaulait

Welcome to our forum! :)

I can certainly understand the sense of overwhelm with the many things you have to consider to ensure a good night sleep but the best suggestion I have is to work through it step by step and revisit the mattress shopping tutorial here which acts as a reference to help you find those that have the knowledge and experience to help you make an informed decision and gives you the basic information you need and will save you having to sort through all the many forum postings. Once you are armed with the basic information and tools you need ... you have the ability to reach out to any of the Expert Members of our site who can help you make good choices that are suitable for your needs and preferences and are not only interested in selling you whatever they can but have your best interests at heart.

Unfortunately, in regards to your current mattress…. the major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay, which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ). And as you discovered, Mattress Innovations doesn’t offer any meaningful specifications on their website in order to make an educated analysis of any of their products. But there is a list with some other options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the Dayton, OH area (subject to the quality/value guidelines) in post #5 here. The best way to go about your next purchase is to arm yourself with all the information and expert help you can get to make an informed decision.

It is always nice to upgrade from Queen to King for partners with temperature regulation issues as well … to have more space and also put some distance between you and the “furnace” when the heat is on. Temperature regulation issues have been extensively discussed on our forum but you can peruse post #2 here that discusses about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system and can help you choose the types of materials and components in your next mattress that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range. In very general terms ... the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin and softer mattresses or foam toppers will tend to be more "insulating" and for some people can sleep warmer than firmer versions of the same material.
Memory foam does a very good job at minimizing motions transfer, but (as you discovered) it will generally be the least breathable and most insulating of the foam comfort materials, so temperature can be an issue.

I was looking at either the Ultimate Hybrid - Pocket Coil from Arizona Mattress Company or possibly the Flexus Quadra-Flex, but still need to try out a latex before we make such a decision. We found a local company called Mattress Innovations that supposedly makes their own mattresses, but don't list any specifications on their mattresses. They do carry latex, so at least we can try that out this weekend.


Both options you are considering are great quality/value choices from two of our Trusted Members of the site, and I certainly aggree with you that It would be well worth doing some local testing on a mattress that has latex in its uppermost comfort layer and experimenting with a few firmness options will help decide if you’d like a latex mattress.

From there is the mattress protector. I was peaking at the Protect-A-Bed therm-a-sleep cool protector, but of course all of their reviews are fake (All posted at the same time). I find those membrane protectors really work for keeping bodily fluids free from the mattress and don't want to sacrifice that, but I'm afraid I will be stuck laying on a heat magnet again.


You are wise ... “mass reviewing” of any product would raise a red flag for me too and this would not be a factor that I'd base my decision. I’d also keep in mind that any layer placed between the mattress encasement and yourself will of course impact its feel and temperature you are experiencing while sleeping. You may wish to read through some of the popular types of mattress protector options as listed in post #89 here . There are some that use wool in their construction as well that may be of interest to you as well.., a washable wool mattress pad like the St. Dormier might be something to consider.

Finding the right pillow just seems like a lost cause.


Unfortunately choosing a pillow is like choosing a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved in choosing a pillow to make specific suggestions or recommendations for someone else. There is no single pillow that is "best" for any particular situation or "symptom" and it is good to remember that the main goal of a pillow is to keep your head and neck in good alignment in all your sleeping positions. Which pillow does this for any particular person or on any particular mattress will vary widely from person to person. In other words ... a pillow that works well for one person with upper back, shoulder, or neck issues may not be suitable at all for someone else with similar issues.

Pillows are also a very personal choice and different people will have very different pillow preferences or different opinions about what they perceive as firm and soft or the general type of pillow that "feels" good to them but some of the information in the pillow topic here and the posts it links to can help you choose a pillow that is the best "match" for you and the mattress you are sleeping on.

I’d be interested to find the results of your testing and the progress you’ve made I search for a suitable mattress.

Phoenix


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06 Aug 2018 05:49 #362 by uncafeaulait

Thanks for all your help! We made it down to Ikea over the weekend and tried the different latex models there. Everything was 'Medium-Firm' or 'Firm' and I would say they all felt like a solid rock.

After that we headed down to Mattress Innovations and I have to say I really like everything about the place. They had this calming meditation music playing that was perfect for testing mattresses. One of the owners, Mike, could tell I had done my homework and was talking about the materials used in the production of their mattresses. He said they are the only family owned mattress store in Dayton that makes their own mattresses - which is sort of true but sort of false. He kept saying "We went down to X state with a couple other mattress companies and together we designed X mattress that X factory is willing to make". Not really a false claim, but also not exactly true. Their full latex line was interesting in that even their firmest latex mattress was extremely soft - the exact opposite of Ikea.

We really liked their pocket coil and 'latex' mattress line, but I noticed an E marked on the side, which is clearly the Englander model. When I looked at the specification sheet, it said Pocketed Coil ENCASED in Latex with a poly-foam comfort layer. I was extremely surprised since while we were laying on it, he talked about how they don't use that 'cheap poly foam' like those other companies and yet sold a mattress with a 1.5" poly foam comfort layer.

We did however, love the latex mattresses except for the lack of edge support - so putting latex with a pocket coil sounds perfect. I'm leaning toward the Flexus Quadra Flex, but am stumped on latex firmness. Based on the full latex mattresses at Mattress Innovations, we prefer a Medium - but based on Ikea we would need an extra extra plush.

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07 Aug 2018 22:37 #363 by Phoenix

Hi uncafeaulait.

Great to hear that Mattress Innovations treated you nicely and you’ve had the chance to test their beds and get a feel for latex … it’s always a good sign when the sales representative notices that you’ve done your homework. :)

Their full latex line was interesting in that even their firmest latex mattress was extremely soft - the exact opposite of Ikea. … I'm leaning toward the Flexus Quadra Flex, but am stumped on latex firmness. Based on the full latex mattresses at Mattress Innovations, we prefer a Medium - but based on Ikea we would need an extra extra plush.


Given the many interdependent variables that can account for the differences in firmness, I wouldn’t just yet come to any conclusions about how a third mattress that you are considering may feel based on the two experiences you’ve had. The mattress design and thickness of each layer, the type of materials used, the comfort layer which in your case can be Dunlop or Talalay latex with its variations (natural, blended, and synthetic) which also come in different firmness ILDs (ILD measures the firmness, the higher the ILD the firmer the foam) all can influence the feel and comfort and different people may be experience them differently which will also affect how they "rate" a mattress in terms of firmness (see post #15 here ) In other words there are no "standard" definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and also different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. If two layers are a different type or blend of latex then ILD ratings may not be comparable between different layers. Dunlop which is most likely what you’ve tested at IKEA and Talalay latex in the same thickness and ILD won't feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply). Talalay in the same ILD as Dunlop feels softer and springier and is less dense (weighs less than Dunlop per cubic foot of material) because it has more air in it.) There is more about the difference between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here .

Because of all the varying descriptions of what soft and firm really is ... it's usually much more "accurate" and objective to talk in terms of the overall "feel" of a mattress (surface feel), and discriminate between the pressure relief of a mattress, and the support and alignment of a mattress. The most common definition of softness has to do with the pressure relieving qualities of a mattress. This comes from the upper layers of the mattress and how well they re-distribute weight away from any pressure points.

Generally, the only two ways to make effective initial choices for the design of a mattress that is the best match for you in terms of comfort/support are
1. Your own careful and objective testing
2. Through a more detailed conversation with the manufacturer/retailer on the phone where you can provide them with more information that can help them use "averages" and your own past experiences as a way to help you make the best choice.
Generally, I wouldn't trust any "theory" at a distance as anything more than a general guideline that is subject to change based on your own unique preferences and circumstances that Flezus Comfort (one of our https://www.themattressunderground.com/the-underground/our-trusted-members.htmlTrusted Manufacturing Members here which means that I think very highly of and consider them to compete well with "the best" in the industry would have the knowledge and experience to help you find the most suitable option for your unique needs and preferences.

We really liked their pocket coil and 'latex' mattress line, but I noticed an E marked on the side, which is clearly the Englander model. When I looked at the specification sheet, it said Pocketed Coil ENCASED in Latex with a poly-foam comfort layer. I was extremely surprised since while we were laying on it, he talked about how they don't use that 'cheap poly foam' like those other companies and yet sold a mattress with a 1.5" poly foam comfort layer.


Englander is a licensing group which has different independent factories in different areas throughout the country that make their mattresses. They all make a very wide range of mattresses all the way from very low quality to very high quality and also in some areas they make a great deal of "house brands" for certain retailers.

We did however, love the latex mattresses except for the lack of edge support - so putting latex with a pocket coil sounds perfect


Because latex is so durable and also point elastic (conforms to the shape of the weight on top of it without having a significant effect on the area beside it) and because of its high compression modulus (the rate at which a material gets firmer with deeper compression) ... for most people it doesn't normally require edge reinforcement for sleeping even for heavy people. This is particularly true if the support layers are firm enough for the person sleeping on the mattress. Because of its point elasticity though ... those who sit on the very outside edge a lot (instead of sitting with your body weight more into the middle of the mattress) or who sleep with more concentrated weight on the outside few inches of their mattress may find themselves sinking down more than they like even though this isn't normally an issue when sleeping on the mattress.

I hope this information helps you out in your decision.

Phoenix


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31 Aug 2018 03:54 #364 by sleepy_jan

Greetings everyone!
I'm new here.
I was looking for a proper mattresses for my son's bunk bed for a long time, so I was very happy when I found your forum. What should I consider before buying one? My boy is 8 now and he's already big, also, I'm certain that he will grow fast in next few years. Is there any way I could buy something that will last long enough? As far as I know, children need a more supportive sleep surfaces than adults. Or should I change mattresses every 1-2 years until he stop growing? What's your opinion on Olee (mentioned here )?

I have so many questions and I would appreciate your answer, Phoenix.

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31 Aug 2018 18:16 #365 by Phoenix

Hi sleepy_jan

Welcome to our forum! :)

The first suggestion I would have is to start with the mattress shopping tutorial here and make sure to you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

You are correct that children need a sleeping surface that is more supportive due to their epiphyseal plate and postural formation. As you seem to be looking for something using polyurethane and Memory foam, I’d want at least CertiPUR-US certification for each of the foams used in the mattress. You’ll tend to find your best price with traditional innerspring style mattresses for this particular application. Post #2 here includes links to most of the better forum posts and topics about mattresses and children and includes some suggestions and guidelines and links to some good quality/value options as well.

The mattress you mentioned is a 10” mattress containing 5” of pocket coil support layer and 4.5 inches of various foams of unspecified densities, which usually is a sign that there are lower quality foams that will break over time and cannot serve as a base for further adjustments as the child grows. With any mattress, you are considering, but especially for children, I would also make sure that all the foams listed in the mattress have safety certifications. As an alternative, you could checkout NestBeding 7” Big Kid’s Bed mattress which is in your price range and uses good quality and safe foams. They are also one of the our Trusted Members here which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.

While adults can do better with memory foam ...I am always hesitant to recommend this as a choice for children and Post #2 that I linked above has more about choosing materials that are "safe enough" for children. Children also do better with more freedom of movement than even more responsive memory foam can provide. Aslo ... the microclimate of a memory foam mattress is not as breathable and temperature controlling as other more breathable materials and I believe that children need every advantage we can give them while they are sleeping, growing, and developing. Even with grownups, there are some guidelines that should be followed to make sure that you know what you are buying and that you can lessen the risk of buying memory foam in a very confused market that will supply you with lots of misinformation.

In general, for a growing child you won't really need more than about 6" or so in thickness if you get a component style mattress when they grow older if they need some additional thickness or softness then you can either add another layer inside a new cover (if you have a zip cover) or add a topper to the mattress. One of the advantages of getting a multi-layered component style system mattress is that you can add or exchange layers as your child grows. If and when they need a softer comfort layer in their "sleeping system” you can also add a softer topper to any firmer children’s' mattress when they get older and develop more adult proportions. If you desire something more “natural”, but want to keep the cost as low as possible, you could do something like this (SleepEZ, roma) or this (Arizona Pr) both trusted members of the site. There are of course other options out there, but I’m familiar with these. As the child moves from the preschooler/early childhood stage into teens it is usually recommended to adjust the sleeping surface towards the medium firm to medium (although growing children can adapt to almost anything) but you'd still want to keep it a bit “firmer”.

I hope this gives you a good place to start.

Phoenix


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16 Sep 2018 04:29 - 16 Sep 2018 04:40 #366 by lolabelittle

Hi Phoenix,
Thanks for all your extensive work on this site. Can you please help me in understanding the better value between two innerspring mattresses? I've read through the guides on this menu but am having trouble deciphering what pros outweigh what cons.

The first option is the Flexus Comfort Posture Sense and the second is the Custom Mattress Makers Daytona . For me the major pros of the Posture Sense are that it's double sided and has tri-zone coils. The pros of the Daytona are that the foam layers seem to be better quality (?) and there is an option to swap out the comfort layer with 1" of dunlop latex (ILD @25%: 21.5 - 24.5) for about $60 more, but not sure if I would actually notice a difference.

Any thoughts appreciated!

Last Edit: 16 Sep 2018 04:40 by lolabelittle.

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16 Sep 2018 23:36 - 16 Sep 2018 23:38 #367 by Phoenix

Hi lolabelittle.

Welcome to our forum!:)

Thanks for all your extensive work on this site. Can you please help me in understanding the better value between two innerspring mattresses?


I am not sure how important innerspring zoning is in your personal value equation but Daytona is an InEuroring/Poly Euro Top mattress which uses 8" 'Quantum-Edge Bolsa's Leggett & Platt coils providing an even surface using 16 ga encased coils and 15 ga steal edge perimeter. Flexus’innerspring is 6” with 3 zones encased coils with 15 ga center third support and 15.5 ga coils an older unit from Leggett & Platt.

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Zoning systems can certainly be useful and well worth considering for people that have more difficulty finding a mattress with the right "balance" between comfort/pressure relief (under the shoulders especially) and support/alignment (under the hips/pelvis especially) or who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to "match" to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here and the additional posts it links to but the only way to know whether any specific mattress (zoned or otherwise) will be a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP will be based on careful testing or your own personal experience.

The 1” of- HR 2.8lbs foam used in Daytona above the spring is one of the newer generation extremely durable high-performance polyfoams which is also more immediate in its response and would be a quality and very durable material. Depending on the feel you are after it may be worth considering exchanging the 1” HR Poly for Dunlop. Only you can really answer how you feel about latex or any other material. Each person has different preferences and the choice between latex and polyfoam and different budgets is part of each person's individual value equation. There are many different types of mattresses in every category including latex so its quite possible that there are some you like and some you don't and each could have a different feel and performance. The upper layers of a mattress are the most important part of durability because they are the most subject to repeated compression and mechanical stress and for most people (but not all) ... they contribute more to the overall "feel" of the mattress as well.

The price point would obviously be another part of your personal value equation and I don't make specific recommendations because only you can decide on the "value" of a mattress purchase relative to the other mattresses you are considering. There is a bit more about the 3 most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix


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Last Edit: 16 Sep 2018 23:38 by Phoenix.

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28 Sep 2018 11:06 #368 by thaliadaniels

Hello, I'm the newest member of this lovely community. I'm getting married in a month. I'm looking for a matress that is perfect for a couple. I live in New Jersey by the way. :)

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28 Sep 2018 18:42 #369 by Phoenix

Hi thaliadaniels.

Welcome to our forum! :)

Congratulations on getting married! Finding a perfect bed for a newlywed couple! .. it a wonderful problem to have :lol:

The first thing I’d recommend before trying to find a “perfect” bed, in general, is to realize each person/couple is unique and a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person/couple or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on, I’d start with doing a bit of research to pinpoint what your needs and preferences are in terms of feel, materials and firmness/softness…. I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but just in case you haven't read it yet ... the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.
Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else or whether it will be a good "match" in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress ... outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

You can perform a forum search and you can type a key term any city or area you would be closer to and consider driving such as New Jersey or any other area and see what other businesses have been discussed in that region which may be helpful to you.

I hope this gives you a good start and once you've had the chance to narrow things down a little further, feel free to post back with any specific questions and I or any of our Expert Members will be happy to assist you.

Phoenix


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29 Sep 2018 04:43 - 04 Oct 2018 06:19 #370 by thaliadaniels

Hi Phoenix, thanks for the tips and advice. :) I'll check this out, it's really a great help to me. :) I'm wondering if there are good mattresses for my pet, though, I saw these pet beds which I think will be perfect for my pet. :)

Last Edit: 04 Oct 2018 06:19 by thaliadaniels.

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