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07 Apr 2019 19:27 - 08 Apr 2019 14:03 #391 by mattress_newb
Thanks for the wealth of the information provided on this site. I also wholeheartedly agree that you can quickly suffer from information overload with mattress info. Regarding online reviews. I have never traversed a more difficult information search with so little actual statistical information. and discovered only after reading the articles here why so many mattresses showed up in the same places in so many reviews.

Sadly - it also led to a puchase which is not going well. After cruising many reviews, we went with the layla mattress. (only discovering this forum after wards) And it's break in had been less than stellar. It is not fitting our needs, and is failing to live up to the review hype of "soft" even after several processes like walking across it to accelerate the break in. To our opinion, even the "soft" side is far too hard- which is leaving us to consider other options as the return term comes up. caveat emptor.

Once again, we're on the hunt for a king size mattress. The mattress we are replacing is a queen size serta, vera wang latex, which as served us very well for the last decade - if it was still made, we would have purchased another one without any issue. It's only shortcoming was being a little firm for our tastes, so we added a 3" latex topper shortly after purchase, and an additional memory foam topper later.

The specifics:
Me 6', 205-215# (depending on the season)
the wife: 5', 120#
we're both 90% side/10% back sleepers
both of us love soft mattresses. the softer the better. both of us seem to be highly sensitive to hip pain from harder mattresses we encounter.
budget: under $2000 ideal, $3000 max (if we can find another mattress that will serve a decade with little to no breakdown) - price is well worth it. that's $30 a month. we can eat out one night a month less if we have to.

limitations: allergies - to wool. which is why we now tried a memory foam type. I was unable to locate online latex retailers that did not use wool in the construction. We would also prefer a solid foam construction for the movement isolation
also height. keeping the mattress to 12" or less is ideal with our current foundation.

It would be great to find another latex mattress, but if need be, we are exploring the simple option of getting another topper, but after reading a few more details about the foam density of the layla, I doubt we'd get more than 5 years out of it before we noticed the breakdown. I question whether a quality latex topper would be a cost effective investment at that point

I guess what we're looking for at this point is some more credible information to research an actual soft mattress, based on real definable numbers we can compare against. We have tried a few of the other popular types out there, like the purple, and a few hybrids, and while fairly comfortable (as much as one can determine from 15 minutes laying on them) we could tell the difference in the way mattress handles motion from our current solid foam. We're familiar with latex, but have enjoyed the cradling sinking feeling of the softest tempur mattresses we've laid on.

Due to location, and limits of not having a large city nearby. retailers that ship are basically also a priority.
Last edit: 08 Apr 2019 14:03 by mattress_newb.

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09 Apr 2019 17:21 - 09 Apr 2019 19:42 #392 by Wheredidthegoodmattressgo
Hello, I hope to ask those with more mattress knowledge if what I had before exists anymore, its really tough to find an acceptable mattress it seems today! I used to have an old Sealy Posturepedic spring mattress extra firm I think and would really just want to get one similar, but have had several failed attempts so far! This mattress lasted 10-12 years and was firm and awesome, the past couple years though it started to sag and we had to give it up, but we have found nothing but problems finding a good mattress!

Because we liked Sealy we tried one first after a long search we tried an extra firm Sealy pillowtop, but my wife found the pillow top uncomfortable over time, and I found myself sinking in it too much, causing my shoulders to round forward when laying face up and shoulder pain after lifting weights particularly.

Next we looked around a lot more and decided to go with a Costco extra firm foam mattress, we were tired of looking for mattresses, and sleeping on the other one disrupting our sleep. We figured Costco has a great return policy, and since it was described by many as being "too firm" we thought it would be a good fit. Unfortunately it was not as firm as advertised from the start (I'm still not sure if maybe we got a mis-labelled lower firmness) and the smell was pretty bad and lingering, and we got rid of this after about a month of trying it.

Next we found in Macys an extra firm mattress we liked, and found that we could order an equivalent model online from USMattress for half price (without the "titanium mesh" of the Macy's model) and did so: we bought King Simmons Beautyrest Platinum Spring Grove Extra Firm Mattress. It was great at first and we thought we finally got it right. In fact it was almost too firm for my wife. However, several months later the firmness started to break down. About 4 months into using the mattress and I realized I was sleeping in a depression, and rolling over either direction was up an incline! My wife is also unhappy with it now, and is not sure whether it’s a depression or being a tiny bit too firm that’s the problem (I'm not sure how they fit together). Of course the depression all but disappears when I get up, so it seems I will never achieve the 1.5 inches depression required by warranty I found to return it, and if it got close I'm not sure I would be able to continue sleeping on it! It really seems all the new one sided mattresses are garbage that sags over a short period of time, and they put this 1.5inch sag requirement in to scam people knowing it will sag but bounce back: how is there ever going to be a depression that stays so deep without weight on it when the foam slowly re-lofts!

I am now wondering if we should have tried latex, but really don’t want to keep spending on mattresses after these losses, especially at latex prices I see. I think we would really just want one of my old flippable spring firm mattresses but don’t know where to find it. Please help!!

Personal info:
Me: 230ish, 5'11" weightlifter (heavy upper torso with broad shoulders that seems to form impressions in the new foam mattresses and cause shoulders to be pushed forward when laying face up), side and back sleeper
Wife: 150 5'9" side and back sleeper
Currently have a frame with 2? crossbars and a King Simmons Beautyrest Platinum Spring Grove Extra Firm Mattress which was really nice until it started to sink.
Budget: ~$1,000-$2000 (but willing to spend more if there's a great long lasting mattress or compelling reason)
Concerns: stinky foam outgassing that doesn’t go away, foam layers that sink with time, one sided mattresses seem to degrade quickly and cause body impressions to form. Now my wife is confused what is causing her issues about this mattress causing her upper back pain and is wondering if its the sinking or its too firm..is there an old style king size firm spring mattress that is flippable anywhere?
Last edit: 09 Apr 2019 19:42 by Wheredidthegoodmattressgo. Reason: error correction

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09 Apr 2019 21:56 - 21 May 2019 06:29 #393 by Juemion
C5 complete, 9 years post injury, I've been in a hospital bed www.smarthomedesk.com/best-reclining-sofas/ with a foam mattress since the injury, and I've had no skin problems. I think it's time for a new mattress and if money is not an issue, should I just stay with a foam mattress or should I swing for the fence and go with one with air chambers and such?

Thanks
Last edit: 21 May 2019 06:29 by Juemion.

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10 Apr 2019 14:39 #394 by Sensei
Hello Wheredidthegoodmattressgo,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).
Why did you choose that name? Just kidding, I love seeing some of the forum names, yours being very to the point.

Regarding the Sealy Mattress you once had, short answer, it doesn't exist, and can’t be found. Sure one could look up the specs in research, but it won't matter....way too many variables, Sealy probably doesn't even use any of the same coils, different fabrics, no FR layers, and then trying to get someone to match...its a nightmare waiting to happen. I could go on, but I think you get my point.

You hit on some great points on why we always send people to our trusted members so you can get transparent information from companies that use high-quality materials.

This quote could be called the "definition of the mattress warranty", you are spot on:

Of course the depression all but disappears when I get up, so it seems I will never achieve the 1.5 inches depression required by warranty I found to return it, and if it got close I'm not sure I would be able to continue sleeping on it! It really seems all the new one sided mattresses are garbage that sags over a short period of time, and they put this 1.5inch sag requirement in to scam people knowing it will sag but bounce back: how is there ever going to be a depression that stays so deep without weight on it when the foam slowly re-lofts!


You are correct, it's rigged not to pay warranties.

Concerns: stinky foam outgassing that doesn’t go away, foam layers that sink with time, one sided mattresses seem to degrade quickly and cause body impressions to form. Now my wife is confused what is causing her issues about this mattress causing her upper back pain and is wondering if its the sinking or it's too firm..is there an old style king size firm spring mattress that is flippable anywhere?



These are good concerns listed, and these happen all the time to people that buy mattresses without knowing what is inside and why. I really think you should start over nd not chase a product that was good for you 13 years ago....generally speaking things change and that "perfect" mattress may not be the right one for you ....today.

I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but just in case you haven't read it yet ... the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones. Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

I hope this helps, some of the members make a lot of innerspring mattresses here is the list of member companies innerspring mattresses

Let us know if you have other questions.

Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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10 Apr 2019 18:09 #395 by Wheredidthegoodmattressgo
Hello Sensei thanks for the reply. I am extremely frustrated with trying to choose one as it affects our sleep and we already spent lots of time and money on this and seem to have come up empty handed. Its even more frustrating to me since the one we got was great at first but in less than a year has started to really cause sinking/body impressions, and both previous times I purchased a mattress I was able to get a good 8-15+ yr long life out of my first choice without it doing this. I think we had a simple frame at first, but ended up using it on box springs on the floor after a move for the majority of the time. I'm not sure whether we have the time or will to start completely over, and I'm kind of loathe to talk to salesmen since it all seems to be essentially just sales talk they talk to sell a mattress without much knowledge or care! Can you make some suggestions to a similar mattress brand/type/model as I'd described possibly? I am in Washington state, it looks like CA is the closest of any on the link page you linked. I will also try to answer the linked page questions in your language with links you defined and see if any suggestions come to mind?

More details of what I remember in case anyone has knowledge from back then. This was a King Sealy spring mattress extra firm 15 years old (checked it lasted longer than I thought, but I should have replaced before the last couple years due to sloping/compression finally). I am pretty certain it had one of the longest warranties they had and I never had to use it (don’t know the specifics of coverage but it wasn’t the current scammy coverage of 1.5" sinking), it also was from a sale of a "discontinued line" or some such at the time, so it may have been an even older model than 15yrs being discontinued? (or yes possibly salesman BS). It had a quilted cover with a smooth but tightly woven full "rounded diamond?" like pattern that was very firm on running your hands over it but did conform some to direct pressure, however they had a good amount of resilience to them and I remember running my hand across the mattress through my fitted sheet feeling them bump my hands up and down due to the resistance to compression and really liking this. I have not really found this level of resistance much in the mattresses I tried out, the current one I tried had some of this effect but not very much and it has already degraded a lot. It did not sink much at all with my bodyweight of about 210 back then.

Now for speaking the language from the links you provided it will take time to get through all of this but here is a start. We don’t like mattresses with much of any sinking DOWN (for me especially this causes shoulders to be higher than torso when laying flat and causes muscle shortening and pain in the shoulders) or sinking IN to the mattress very much, but some is necessary due to my wife liking a little less firm than I. Both of us do not like memory foam we have tried, as its hot and conforms without support. Temperature control is important to us and pillow tops we tried are too hot in the summer for sure.

I'm pretty certain we want quilted cover, innerspring, two sided, firm to extra firm, very durable...

Slow or fast response materials and where in the range you prefer -- we liked the spring return of a spring mattress with a firm foam quilted on top, I may not be clear on this question/concept.

Sleeping "on" vs "in" the mattress -- definitely ON

Motion isolation with small and large movements -- not highest priority, more is better.

The ease of movement or movement restriction on the mattress for changing position and "other activities" -- ease of movement is important, especially since without it I think we are talking sinking into the mattress a lot which we don’t like.

Edge support for those who sit or sleep on the edge of a mattress -- not primary, I have noticed the two we tried had a lot of edge support which caused more essential sinking into the mattress over time and a center and side "ridge".

"Roll together" for those who sleep close together in the center of a mattress --No, separate sleepers.

Overall "feel" (such as the difference between combinations that include the "feel" of innersprings and/or different types of foam in the comfort or support layers) -- we like the feel of innersprings.

Durability of materials in the mattress -- very important, showing a lot of wear in a year is a complete failure.

Durability of construction (such as one or two sided) -- definitely two sided

Quality and performance of materials and construction -- I'm not sure since what we purchased before seems to be of good quality, but was about $1k for a king mattress.

Ability to open the mattress and exchange layers or make changes after purchase -- a realm I'm not sure about engaging into at all unless the store is close in WA state.

Warranty and warranty exclusions (which are often more important then the warranty itself). You can read more about mattress warranties here .

Budget limitations and range -- we would like to be in the $1k range but willing to go $2k range if a great mattress and warranty with exchange

Price vs quality and "commodity" value of materials -- I really don’t know what this one means.

Mattress only

Any brands/ideas come to mind?

There are two we are leaning towards that we had tried before, a "50's mattress" in Macy's (to try to get back to the innerspring type we had) and a hard foam that one local store had obtained they said to try to cater to the many Indian customers in the area who prefer a firm feel...but these are kind of shooting in the dark since we don’t know the longevity of either.

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14 Apr 2019 16:44 - 14 Apr 2019 16:47 #396 by Sensei
Hey Wheredidthemattressgo,

Thank you for putting more information on your post, I can really feel how frustrating this is, especially after such clear success 15 years ago.

I don't really have any knowledge on the 50's mattress, and the foam offer, you would want to know what the density and IFD of the foam mattress. I don't know how you feel about buying online. One of our expert members is Beducation /Mattress to Go, they have a full line of traditional innerspring models. Jeff, the owner has been in business for over 25 years, knows what Sealy and those guys made 15 years ago, and I am confident the can help you.

Ask them a question on at their expert forum listing. Also, you can read about them on their Mattress to go website. They ship all over the US and I think they would be very helpful. Great prices, and high level of knowledge.

Thanks,
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum
Last edit: 14 Apr 2019 16:47 by Sensei.

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08 May 2019 10:42 #397 by clairechristian47
I hope this is the right place for this question. I’ve been trying to follow the recommended procedure for narrowing choices down, but am running into the problem that because my current mattress became so painful so fast, I am pretty much always in a bit of hip/back pain and so there’s no mattress that feels 100% right. However my sleep on my current mattress is getting worse by the day so I want to make a decision as soon as possible. I am hoping that someone on the forum can give some advice as I feel a bit anxious about proceeding!

About me – I’m 5’4, 135 pounds, and a side sleeper. In following the initial steps, I found I didn’t like the all latex mattresses as I tend to switch sides a few times before falling asleep and some of them felt too bouncy. I gravitate towards mattresses that aren’t very plush, but kept my mind open since I didn’t make a good choice on my mattress last time, and of course now I know the difference between sinking in and sinking down thanks to this site. :) I’ve narrowed down my choices to some found at Urban Mattress in Vienna, VA, which is one of the few non-chain mattress stores that’s reasonably close to me. The sales clerk there was very helpful and I think I’ve found a few mattresses that are good at least in terms of alignment and construction. I’ll be going back hopefully this weekend with a friend to double check my choices (particularly the alignment part – the sales clerk took photos for me but it’s hard to see subtle differences in them), but meanwhile I wanted to see if anybody on the forum can give some advice.

So far all of these felt pretty good (or aggravated my existing issues as little as possible):

Harmony firm: vienna.urbanmattress.com/shop/product-collection/virtues/
Outer layer: Stretch-knit fiber
Comfort layer: 3" layer of HR Cold Foam
Support layer: One 6″ layer of 2.5 lb. 28 ILD HR base foam, one 2″ layer of 28 ILD latex, and 1" layer of 19 ILD latex

Gratitude: vienna.urbanmattress.com/shop/product-collection/virtues/
Outer layer: Polyester Blend over two 1.5 inch layers of 2.1 LB High Density Certipur Foam
Comfort layer: 2 inch 28 ILD Talalay Latex and 2 inch of 19 ILD Talalay Latex
Support layer: 6 inches of 2.5lb 28 ILD (Firm: 35 ILD) HR Cold Foam


Silver Lake firm: vienna.urbanmattress.com/shop/product-collection/essentials/
Outer layer: Stretch-knit fiber over 2 layers of 1.5 inch Certi-pur 3 lb HR Cold Foam
Comfort layer: 2 inches of Certi-pur 3 lb HR Cold Foam
Support layer: Firm: 884 6 inch 14.5 gauge pocketed coil with firm edge/ Plush: 884 6 inch 15.5 gauge pocketed coil with firm edge

Dahlia plush: vienna.urbanmattress.com/shop/product-collection/bloom/
Outer layer: Natural Bamboo cover; .4 inches of natural Talalay latex; wool filling; 1.5 inches of 3 lb HR Cold Foam
Comfort layer: 2 inches of 28 ILD Talalay Latex
Support layer: Firm: 884 6 inch pocketed coil 14.5 gauge / Plush: 884 6 inch pocketed coil 15.5 gauge


Part of the reason I am struggling is that these all feel about the same even though they have different materials. I spent a good deal of time at my last visit testing all of them and didn’t detect a whole lot of difference. I’ve of course done some reading on the site but still do not feel very confident in assessing the relative merits of materials of these. I lean towards the Gratitude, Silver Lake, and Dahlia because I think their materials overall seem better, but I could be wrong.

It’s very important to me to buy something that lasts (in addition to giving me a pain-free night’s sleep!) and I don’t mind paying more for more durable materials.

This is a very long post, so if you read it and are able to provide any advice, please know it will be most gratefully received!

Thanks,
Claire

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11 May 2019 17:41 #398 by Sensei
Hi clairechristina47,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

Thanks so much for the post, and the kind words about TMU.

Urban Mattress is a well-known retailer within the mattress community, and they make very good quality mattresses and are quite professional. One of the things I was thinking about, is it's not that surprising after testing out a variety of mattresses, then coming down to some finalists.....that they may feel very similar...this is the feel you are gravitating to.

Although they are different, they are relatively firm mattresses. I think its good you have two with high quality, high-density foam as the base/support layer, and the other two are very good quality pocketed coil hybrid mattresses.

Harmony firm:
Outer layer: Stretch-knit fiber
Comfort layer: 3" layer of HR Cold Foam
Support layer: One 6″ layer of 2.5 lb. 28 ILD HR base foam, one 2″ layer of 28 ILD latex, and 1" layer of 19 ILD latex

Gratitude:
Outer layer: Polyester Blend over two 1.5 inch layers of 2.1 LB High Density Certipur Foam
Comfort layer: 2 inch 28 ILD Talalay Latex and 2 inch of 19 ILD Talalay Latex
Support layer: 6 inches of 2.5lb 28 ILD (Firm: 35 ILD) HR Cold Foam


Silver Lake firm:
Outer layer: Stretch-knit fiber over 2 layers of 1.5 inch Certi-pur 3 lb HR Cold Foam
Comfort layer: 2 inches of Certi-pur 3 lb HR Cold Foam
Support layer: Firm: 884 6 inch 14.5 gauge pocketed coil with firm edge/ Plush: 884 6 inch 15.5 gauge pocketed coil with firm edge

Dahlia plush:
Outer layer: Natural Bamboo cover; .4 inches of natural Talalay latex; wool filling; 1.5 inches of 3 lb HR Cold Foam
Comfort layer: 2 inches of 28 ILD Talalay Latex
Support layer: Firm: 884 6 inch pocketed coil 14.5 gauge / Plush: 884 6 inch pocketed coil 15.5 gauge



All of the layers and materials are of high quality, with no "weak links" as we say. I do agree with you and wish they could show more differentiation in product feel, especially when marketed within the "Virtues" or "Essentials", etc product group.

For the Harmony, I don't usually agree with putting 1" 19ild below 3" of the "HR Cold Foam". 19ILD Talalay is a wonderful layer should be used closer to your body and on top of polyfoam. Just dropping it in the middle of a mattress build is a waste. The real benefit is lost so far below the surface.

Regarding the HR Cold foam, which I am sure is the high resilient polyfoam product. The website is vague about this layer...as as an FYI, for real HR Polyfoam to be considered high resiliency … “by Law” requirements…must have both higher than 2.5 lb./ft3 (Yes they do) in density and have a compression modulus of 2.4 or higher. and are defined in ASTM D3770 on the PFA website . These are important factors for why "HR" foam has the qualities it has.

I think the next thing you need to compare is one of the all foam beds - Gratitude, for example, and then choose one of the Silver Lake and Dahlia...then take time to closely compare these final two and see if you see a difference in how the pocket spring works against the all foam bed.

Then you are able to choose between one pocket coil bed and one "all foam" bed...both are going to be very durable compared to similar mattresses made by National companies.

All of your choices are made with high durability materials, therefore I am thinking about pressure relief more for you.... and as you say, which I personally can relate to:

I am pretty much always in a bit of hip/back pain and so there’s no mattress that feels 100% right.




I know you read this comfort and pressure relief article , if not it's still good for all of our consumers for testing pressure relief on different mattresses.

Thank you again, and please let us know if you have any other questions, and if you made any decisions. Good luck!

Thanks.
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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12 May 2019 06:56 #399 by clairechristian47
Hi Sensei,

Thanks so much for your reply, this information is super useful! I am hopefully going to the store today to make a final decision and will keep all of this in mind. I can't say thanks enough for you and the other experts on this site providing your advice - although it's still a big decision I at least feel like I'm not going in as blind as I did last time.

And, I did read that pressure relief article a while back but that was a useful reminder, so thanks also for that. Even if I cannot expect the mattresses to immediately relieve chronic pain that has been building for a while, I can focus on trying to find pressure points.

Cheers,
Claire

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12 May 2019 18:02 #400 by Sensei
Hey Claire,

You are very welcome, I am looking forward to hearing how it went. I know that area fairly well, some close family live in Falls Church. Talk soon.

Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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