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Convert a Icomfort Genius into Savant 08 Oct 2012 06:28 #1

Hi,

I'm looking for any insight to make a topper for my Genius that will feel like the softer Savant. The Savant's top layer is it's 2" Koolcomfort memory foam which I'm trying to duplicate. I read the density could be 5.2. So, I need to find something that dense but still soft and cool feeling. Under the Savant's Koolcomfort layer is a 1"comfort foam, not sure of its density. My Genius was built with 2.75" gel memory foam on top, then 2" supportive foam, then 6" core foam.

Trying to find something soft, conforming, cool, and dense so it's got some quality and long term performance. Is that latex? I read some good stuff on here about the blended. Maybe just find a dense memory foam? But how do I sink in on a dense foam? How do I find dense and soft? I saw on Amazon that serta sells a 2" and a 2.5" cool gel memory foam but not sure of it's density, maybe around 3 or 4. I recently developed some nerve pain and need to get my butt into something soft and cool toot sweet. Thanks, rdr

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Re: Convert a Icomfort Genius into Savant 08 Oct 2012 15:26 #2

Hi rdr93,

I'm looking for any insight to make a topper for my Genius that will feel like the softer Savant.


As you mentioned ... the layering of these two iComfort mattress are very different and it's not really possible to "match" one mattress to another without a lot more information about the details of every layer. There is more about "matching" one mattress to another and the difficulties of doing this in post #2 here . There is also a brief outline of the three ways to duplicate another mattress in post #2 here .

None of these would be possible in your case because Serta doesn't provide enough information about the specific materials they use and you would need to change the layers inside the mattress not just add a layer on top to "match" the two.

So the most effective method would be to try to match your current mattress to a "target" that is more about the specific qualities you are looking for than another mattress. for example ... the 2" top layer of memory foam in the Savant may feel completely different in another layering combination than it does on the Savant because every layer in a mattress is affected by the layers above and below them in terms of how they feel and perform.

The density of the polyfoam in the upper layers of the icomfort line is 1.35 lbs (low quality) but density has little to do with how a material feels. Every density of polyfoam can come in firmer and softer versions and density is more about the durability of a material and how long it will keep it's original specs and properties. For example the density of the 2" polyfoam layer in the Genius is low but it is very firm while the polyfoam in the Savant is soft. This firmness won't last however and I have already heard from retailers that have had complaints about the Genius softening from its original specs in a relatively short time (under a year) because of the density of the polyfoam they use.

So I would tend to use a 2" memory foam topper in a similar density (the cool comfort is 5 lb memory foam) and feel (you will have to trust the descriptions of the memory foam you are looking at or conversations with the retailer that sells them in terms of how breathable it is and how it feels because there is no accurate way to compare the many different memory foams to each other except in very general terms). While this probably won't "match" the feel of the Savant ... it will probably move you closer to the performance and feel you are looking for (more pressure relief and a softer feel).

Of course you could also add latex which is available in many different firmness levels (from very soft to very firm) but this will have a very different feel than a memory foam topper and it would depend on whether you preferred a fast response topper or a slower response topper. While the pressure relief can be similar between the two materials, the "feel" will be very different. Latex will be more breathable and cooler than memory foam however especially if you also have a more breathable protector and sheets over it (the sleeping temperature of a mattress depends on how all the materials in the upper part of the mattress and the bedding layers perform together more than on the properties of any particular layer).

What feels "soft" for you will also depend on your height and weight and on your sleeping positions and preferences (every person has a different definition of soft or firm) but in general ... 2" of 4-5 lb "cool" memory foam or 2" of softer latex (with an ILD that you would feel as soft but probably in the 19 - 24 ILD range) would probably be close to what you are looking for.

Some of the better sources of both memory foam and latex listed in post #4 here .

Phoenix
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Re: Convert a Icomfort Genius into Savant 08 Oct 2012 23:00 #3

HI Phoenix,

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my inquiry, I appreciate it. Wow, after reading your advice and the included links to other posts there is a lot of great info and choices to make. I like your idea of shooting for a target comfort level of the Savant. Thanks for informing me, but I'm bummed to hear that my Genius has a low quality polyfoam support layer that may soften over time. Although, I do want to make my bed softer I suppose I don't want it to occur that way. The Savant has that same layer? I guess that's what the 1" of comfort foam is. In further bumming news I read some of your posts (Re: Serta Icomfort vs Sealy Memoryworks) stating that 5lbs koolcomfort is the only quality layer in the icomfort line, and the gel and the support core are low quality/low density. If I added a quality high density topper around 5lbs. would that help take some of the pressure off the lower sub quality layers that I've got in my genius giving them some extended life? My mattress is brand new so maybe I can save it before its too late.

I was reading your definition of "Depth of cradle" and found it helpful. So, If I want a more soft contouring feeling I need to find a thicker, softer, and a slower response topper material. I did see that you stated the koolcomfort was faster response. Can you recommend a couple of specific toppers that you are a big fan of? How do I calculate what I need for thickness? I'm 6' feet, 200 lbs. Is the 2" you recommended appropriate for my size?

Thanks again for all your help and insight, this site is super helpful!
rdr

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Re: Convert a Icomfort Genius into Savant 09 Oct 2012 01:22 #4

Hi rdr93,

Although, I do want to make my bed softer I suppose I don't want it to occur that way. The Savant has that same layer? I guess that's what the 1" of comfort foam is.


I agree that foam softening isn't the ideal way of making a mattress softer. It will also soften unevenly and the parts under the heavier areas will soften more than the parts under the lighter parts of the body. The 1" layer in the Savant is not quite as bad because it is already soft and there is only an inch of it so further softening won't have the same effect as the softening of a thicker firmer layer. They are the same quality foam but the 2" layer in the genius is much firmer (this is the layer that gives the mattress a firm rating).

If I added a quality high density topper around 5lbs. would that help take some of the pressure off the lower sub quality layers that I've got in my genius giving them some extended life? My mattress is brand new so maybe I can save it before its too late.


Yes ... the deeper in a mattress or sleeping system a layer is the less it will be regularly compressed and be subject to wear and tear and the longer it will last. The only challenge with this is that you wouldn't want the topper to be so thick that the total of the soft foam is more than is suitable for best alignment for your body type and sleeping positions. In the case of the Genius though ... an extra 2" should be fine but I wouldn't go thicker than this because then the softening of the polyfoam and memory foam would have a greater risk of putting you out of alignment (the foam under your heavier parts will soften more than the foam under your lighter parts).

I was reading your definition of "Depth of cradle" and found it helpful. So, If I want a more soft contouring feeling I need to find a thicker, softer, and a slower response topper material. I did see that you stated the koolcomfort was faster response. Can you recommend a couple of specific toppers that you are a big fan of? How do I calculate what I need for thickness? I'm 6' feet, 200 lbs. Is the 2" you recommended appropriate for my size?


There really isn't a "formula" where you can plug in weight and height statistics and come up with a specific recommendation that would apply to a specific person because there are so many variables involved both in different body types (even in the same height and weight) and with the many different variations of sleeping positions and preferences and even different physiology and more or less movement on a mattress (asleep and otherwise). There are also no "standardized" specs for memory foam except for density and in some cases ILD (which is softness firmness but this is a very misleading spec with memory foam) and there are hundreds of different memory foam chemical formulations (and more coming out all the time) which can alter some of the many specs that are part of a memory foam formulation (you can read more about this in post #9 here ). Memory foam is tricky because it has many more variables than polyfoam or latex and many of the most important specs aren't standardized or even disclosed which is why personal testing can be important.

Having said that ... there are "averages" that apply to many people and if you can describe the general qualities you are looking for a good memory foam supplier will "match" what you are looking for with what you want. In your case you would probably be looking for more open celled (cooler) memory foam that has a slightly faster response and less temperature sensitivity. There are more 4 lb foams that have these characteristics of a more open celled structure, faster response, and less temperature sensitivity in a lower density foam ... but the tradeoff for lower density is durability. If you choose 5 lb foam that has these characteristics ... then you can have the same benefits with greater durability but generally at a higher price. A topper also has the advantage of being replaceable when and if it wears out faster than the mattress itself so it can be OK to choose a slightly lower density because it can be replaced. This is what hotels tend to do (add toppers or other bedding packages) to extend the life of their mattresses.

To find the best choice ... the retailer or source you choose and their level of knowledge can be the most important part of your buying decision because buying from someone what doesn't have the knowledge to match their products to what you need can lead to choices that may not be suitable for what you are looking for.

With your height/weight and sleeping position (assuming side?) and based on averages ... a 3" - 4" pressure relieving cradle is generally what you would need and with memory foam ... because it tends to be softer (when it is warm) than other types of foam and you can sink into the softer versions more deeply and more evenly ... then a little extra (say up to an inch) is usually OK compared to other materials. So if you add a 2" memory foam layer to the 2.75" that you already have in the Genius ... it will be similar (in terms of the memory foam anyway) to the Savant and would be in the range that should work well for you. Other sleeping positions would do better with thinner layers.

So I would talk to the 4 memory foam sources that are listed in the post I linked earlier and tell them what you want and then the one that has a combination of the properties you are looking for, the density that gives you the durability you want, and the price that is most attractive is the one I would buy.

Hope this helps.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Convert a Icomfort Genius into Savant 10 Oct 2012 00:47 #5

Hi Phoenix,

Great stuff, this really helps me make a better more informed choice. Thanks I’ll definitely focus in on the open celled faster response 2” options in either a 4 or 5lb density. I’ll also take into consideration your recommendations of the 2” latex in a ILD range of 19 – 24. One last query: would there be any benefit to doing a combination…..laying down a 1” layer of latex then ontop throw the 2” memory foam. Or is that overkill and just stick with the simplier solution?

Big thanks for the quick responses and taking the time to share your knowledge,
rdr

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Re: Convert a Icomfort Genius into Savant 10 Oct 2012 01:57 #6

Hi rdr93,

One last query: would there be any benefit to doing a combination…..laying down a 1” layer of latex then ontop throw the 2” memory foam. Or is that overkill and just stick with the simplier solution?


You are getting into some complex layering arrangements here and when you have 3 different types of foam in a comfort layer it becomes very difficult to predict in terms of how it will feel and perform. Some of the iComforts have this type of layering but you can test them in real life so the combination can be tested but with layers that you can't test in combination, knowing what it will do before you sleep on it is more difficult.

I personally like latex memory foam combinations though and what you can expect is that the latex will modify the feel of the memory foam layers and will lessen the response of the memory foam below it (heat won't reach it as easily and it will modify how you sink into the memory foam. When you"go through" the top 2" memory foam layer instead of going into another memory foam layer you will be on a more resilient layer and it will also firm up the memory foam below it. It will be more "supportive" and have a little more active feel in other words. The iComfort Renewal Refined has these same 3 materials but they are in a different order with the latex under the two layers of memory foam.

I personally prefer the feel of latex over memory foam because it provides for a little more resilient surface and lessens the feeling of being "in" the mattress a little. All of these layering combinations are personal preferences though.

So it may be an interesting experiment if you think a thin latex layer would come closer to the feel you like than just memory foam but it would also be a bit risky because it is not easy to know ahead of time if you will like it and if you don't you would have purchased an inch of latex for nothing.

The other important thing with toppers is that you buy a good cover. If you buy both I would buy a cover that can enclose both of them together. This is especially important with latex because ozone and ultraviolet like can degrade it and lessen it's expected lifespan.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: Convert a Icomfort Genius into Savant 31 Dec 2014 10:30 #7

Phoenix et al,

I think I did find a way to convert the Genius to a Savant though I came upon it by accident.

I received my new icomfort genius about three weeks ago since then I have made modification with two mattress toppers. Unfortunately I cannot use the add file option to show you all an image, it is not working with my computer interface for some reason?

But if you could imagine I have the icomfort genius mattress, atop that is a 2" memory foam 5lb density from Brooklyn Bedding. And atop that is a 2" thick 20 ILD piece of "Pure Green Natural Latex" From SleepOnLatex. The combination of the two makes it feel like a Savant and very comfortable. I realize for the price I paid for each Memory Foam $150 + Latex $240 I could have just upgraded to the Savant. However the Savant uses such poor quality materials that I think I made a better choice by combining these two instead atop the icomfort genius.

Phoenix: Do you think I will increase the longevity of my icomfort genius mattress by adding this additional 4" of quality bedding materials?

One concern I had was in the additional weight of the 4" on top of the genius. Anyway I wanted to share this.

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Re: Convert a Icomfort Genius into Savant 31 Dec 2014 11:18 #8

Hi Reb_enfilade,

I received my new icomfort genius about three weeks ago since then I have made modification with two mattress toppers. Unfortunately I cannot use the add file option to show you all an image, it is not working with my computer interface for some reason?


There is some information in the help section here about adding attachments but if nothing else works then you can email them to me and I will add them to your post if you wish.

But if you could imagine I have the icomfort genius mattress, atop that is a 2" memory foam 5lb density from Brooklyn Bedding. And atop that is a 2" thick 20 ILD piece of "Pure Green Natural Latex" From SleepOnLatex. The combination of the two makes it feel like a Savant and very comfortable. I realize for the price I paid for each Memory Foam $150 + Latex $240 I could have just upgraded to the Savant. However the Savant uses such poor quality materials that I think I made a better choice by combining these two instead atop the icomfort genius.


These types of comparisons are very subjective and there are many people who may not agree that your combination of layers "matches" the Savant as closely as you feel it does (especially with a latex top layer which most people would perceive as being quite different from the top layers of the Savant) but this aside ... the only thing that really matters is that your mattress/toppers combination works well for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) regardless of how closely it "matches" another mattress. There is no doubt that your new design uses higher quality materials than the Savant ... especially in the upper layers of the mattress.

Phoenix: Do you think I will increase the longevity of my icomfort genius mattress by adding this additional 4" of quality bedding materials?


Yes ... the upper layers of a sleeping system are generally the weakest link in terms of durability and are the layers that are most subject to the compression forces that soften and break down the materials in a mattress so by adding higher quality materials on top of your mattress you will reduce the amount of compression and wear in the layers below them and add to their durability. If either of your toppers softens or breaks down before the other layers in your sleeping system or even if your needs and preferences change over time then then you would also have the ability to replace just an individual topper instead of having to replace the entire mattress.

It's great to hear that you were able to "transform" your sleeping system into a design that is more suitable for you and will be more durable as well ... and thanks for sharing your comments and feedback :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.
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