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stickyandlocked Memory foam toppers, do any good ones exist?

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03 Nov 2012 17:37 #11 by Jezo

Would $1,600 ~ 2,000 be an appropriate budget for a king size?

That is what I can afford right now and a king is needed because of how my wife and I sleep and also due to a growing toddler who frequently likes to snuggle in the morning. SleepEZ appears to be in that range, as do some other online retailers. As I have not yet been to any of the local stores I am not sure what to expect. If I walk in and everything is $3,000 and up I'll just sleep on the floor with a blanket. If a foam mattress is out of my budget there is not much I can do at this time.

I did see a post you made about the SULTAN EDSELE being a budget Ikea mattress that is not totally junk, maybe that for the bottom range if the specialty stores are way out of my league. People do say they have a pretty nutty warranty and folks just get them replaced every 10 years. At $1,200 I could afford that one.

I will try to get more info about the two mattresses, are there tags on them to say what is in them or would the only way to know would be to get the original receipts?

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03 Nov 2012 21:28 #12 by Phoenix

Hi Jezo,

Yes ... $1600 - $2000 would certainly be in the range where you could buy a very good quality mattress.

I don't think you have to worry about being overwhelmed with $3000 plus mattresses :)

The Edsele uses mostly natural Dunlop and could make a good choice for some people although many may want to add a softer topper on top for pressure relief since it may be on the firm side with only a single layer of firmer latex (depending on their body type, sleeping positions, and preferences).

You won't be able to find enough information about the Beautyrest Classic you slept on to use it as a meaningful guideline because Simmons doesn't provide it. Knowing the model though could give some indication of it's general construction and type (firmer innerspring, thicker or thinner comfort layers etc).

If your mattress is also a major brand (and it should tell you the manufacturer on the law tag on the mattress) then it's also unlikely that any meaningful information is available about it either (the law tag only shows the contents by weight but not by layering or the specific quality of material) but at least it may help track down the general layering to help identify what may be happening with it ... even though the odds that it needs to be replaced are quite high IMO.

Phoenix


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04 Nov 2012 11:04 #13 by Jezo

I guess it was some of the premium organic sites and stores I saw linked on here that got me worried about the really high prices. I see some king sizes out there with prices I just cannot afford. They also might be designed for people not me, for example, the SleepEZ 13" King is over $2,300.

Do I need something that thick? What would getting a 13" get me over getting the 7" or the 9"? Body type is average. Sleeping position isn't much. I do sleep on my stomach but haven't been able to do that on my current bed for a long time as my lower back dips down and it causes a bit of pain, thats why I go to my side now. Sleeping on these other mattresses the past few days had me remembering how I used to sleep. I can lay on my stomach and be supported in my back and not hurt.

I slept on my Ikea mattress last night, feel great again today. Hopefully I can get out shopping in the next week or so. It might be longer but I will be sure to update you when I find something.

With the Ikea, getting a topper wouldn't be bad at all. If it is firm I would like it though, I do prefer a harder bed over a softer.

With your list of NJ stores, which other ones should I consider for my budget? Things like the Lotus store in Highland Park I am not even going to consider, out of my range. That medical sounding one in East Brunswick also doesn't sound like it would fit for me. There is one in Clark I will check out, My Custom Bedding, as I am around that area quite frequently.

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04 Nov 2012 17:03 - 04 Nov 2014 15:19 #14 by Phoenix

Hi Jezo,

I guess it was some of the premium organic sites and stores I saw linked on here that got me worried about the really high prices. I see some king sizes out there with prices I just cannot afford. They also might be designed for people not me, for example, the SleepEZ 13" King is over $2,300.


I understand ... and there are many "organic" specialty retailers that sell mattresses where in some cases "organic" can be a "code word" for expensive and cater to a market where people are willing to pay more for similar or in some cases even the same materials from manufacturers or retailers that don't stress or even promote the organic qualities of their mattresses to the same degree.

Do I need something that thick? What would getting a 13" get me over getting the 7" or the 9"? Body type is average. Sleeping position isn't much. I do sleep on my stomach but haven't been able to do that on my current bed for a long time as my lower back dips down and it causes a bit of pain, thats why I go to my side now. Sleeping on these other mattresses the past few days had me remembering how I used to sleep. I can lay on my stomach and be supported in my back and not hurt.


The main benefit of a thicker latex mattress (or any mattress that uses similar materials) is that it can be more adaptable for heavier weights and multiple sleeping positions. It will compress from softer to firmer more gradually which means that there is more "range" of compression without the mattress becoming too firm for heavier weights (or parts of the body). A thicker mattress can also be part of a specific design that requires it such as some types of zoning or layering that needs more layers to accomplish the design goal of the mattress. It can even just be a matter of preference rather than "need".

If you can imagine for example a 2" layer of latex (or any foam material) on the floor you would compress it to it's maximum and feel much more of the floor (it goes from soft to maximum compressed firmness within the space of a 2" layer) but if you had the same softness of latex in a 6" layer on the floor ... it would feel much softer and compress more gradually and to a lesser percentage of its overall thickness and wouldn't reach the same level of firmness or "bottom out" (which means reaching the maximum level of compression or firmness that a layer or a mattress can effectively achieve).

In the large majority of cases ... 8" - 9" of latex is easily enough to include the combination softer layers (or sometimes sections) for pressure relief and firmer layers for support that most people of average or even higher weights would need. In some cases ... lighter weights or people that sleep in "flatter" sleeping positions, have slimmer less curvy body types, or who prefer a firmer mattress will do well with even 6" even though there is less "room" to design in different layers in the mattress. People that have much higher body weights or larger body types may choose more than the "average" thickness and may prefer the feel and extra adaptability of say 12" of latex. Thicker mattresses can also use firmer materials because thickness and softness are very related and work together. These are all good questions to ask the manufacturer or retailer of a mattress so they can discuss the differences between the different options they have available in terms that are more specific to the layers they use or options they provide.

Thickness and softness work together and because thicker layers (or mattresses) can have a greater range of compression and are more "adaptable" ... it's also possible to use firmer top layers in a thicker mattress and still have good pressure relief because of the greater range of compression of the thicker mattress which can create a mattress with a firmer "surface feel" but that still provides good pressure relief and adapts well to the body contours.

One other benefit of a thicker mattresses that have multiple layers that can be rearranged or exchanged is that there are more layering combinations possible for changing and fine tuning the performance and feel of the mattress but in many cases this wouldn't be necessary and in some cases can lead to a level of complexity that can make predicting how the layers interact more difficult (see post #2 here )

So the overall thickness of a mattress that is either "needed" or "preferred" would depend on the combinations of the layers and components that are needed to achieve the design goal of the mattress and provide the PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) that can best match each person and their unique body type, sleeping positions, and preferences.

Stomach sleeping for example is a "flatter" sleeping position and carries more risk of sleeping in a "swayback" position where the hips sink down too far for good spinal alignment so it may need thinner soft layers on top for pressure relief so you reach the firmer support layers more easily which can "stop" the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too far and sleeping out of alignment.

With your list of NJ stores, which other ones should I consider for my budget? Things like the Lotus store in Highland Park I am not even going to consider, out of my range. That medical sounding one in East Brunswick also doesn't sound like it would fit for me. There is one in Clark I will check out, My Custom Bedding, as I am around that area quite frequently.


All of them would have pros and cons that may be important for some people (depending on what is most important for them in terms of their " value equation ") but I think for most people the last group of 5 on the list would probably represent the best "value". I would call each one where the information on their website interests you though (and that was close enough for you to take the trip) because of course I don't know the specifics of every mattress they make or all their prices. When you call them I would tell them your "criteria" including your budget so that you don't end up visiting one of the choices that you could know ahead of time didn't offer anything that would be suitable or would interest you that was inside your budget. I think it's always important to call and talk with any manufacturer or retailer you are considering before paying them a visit as a matter of course anyway both to get a sense of what to expect when you go there and also because websites are frequently not up to date or don't have all the basic information you may need to decide whether to go there.

Hope this helps.

Phoenix


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Last Edit: 04 Nov 2014 15:19 by Phoenix.
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19 Nov 2012 16:02 #15 by Jezo

As I am ramping up to get a new mattress I have done some calling and looking into the various shops reccomended.

1) Ikea. Ikea is Ikea. It's a base line mattress that will work but is not premium. Not made locally.

2) Called the store in Clark, NJ. Orange Mattreess I think. Person on the phone was not too helpful, didn't have any details, couldnt give me any pricing information and just kept saying "We use good materials". The call annoyed me.

3) Mattress factory in Fanwood. Guy knew his stuff. The products they offer are either a 11" or an 8". The thicker uses 6" of Tallay Latex over 5 inches of foam. The 8 inch is firmer with la 3 inch support on top of the foam. 2699 for the 11, 2399 for the 8".

4) Called Magic Sleeper out in PA. Another person who knew what he was talking about. They use 100% latex in their mattresses. 2" Tallay on top of 6" Dunlop. $2199. Says it can be customized however we want.

So the question I have now.. what would the main difference be between a 100% latex mattress like the second folks as opposed to a latex / foam combo like the Fanwood factory? I can get them customized however I want in terms of firmness and then also add on pillowtoppers if I feel like it, but in terms of life of the product or what to expect, what would foam or no foam in the base layer do?

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19 Nov 2012 20:52 - 19 Nov 2012 20:57 #16 by Phoenix

Hi Jezo,

So the question I have now.. what would the main difference be between a 100% latex mattress like the second folks as opposed to a latex / foam combo like the Fanwood factory? I can get them customized however I want in terms of firmness and then also add on pillowtoppers if I feel like it, but in terms of life of the product or what to expect, what would foam or no foam in the base layer do?


Both of these two manufacturers are knowledgeable but their mattresses are constructed quite differently and take two paths to similar goals (the goal being a mattress that provides a customer with their needs and preferences). Both would have similar durability because the upper layers affect durability more than the lower layers and in both cases the upper layers are latex. This would also depend on the type of latex used in each and on the firmness of the latex in the upper layers (different types of latex have durability differences and the firmness/softness of latex also affects durability). There is more about the many factors that can affect how long a mattress may last for any particular person in post #2 here . Durability in other words is partly about the materials used and partly relative to the person.

Besides the differences in materials ... they also use a different method to provide the combination of softness/firmness in the comfort and support layers that can "match" each different person. Of course latex is also a more expensive material than polyfoam. The thicker the latex layers on top ... the more "latex like" the overall mattress will be because the "feel" of the deeper layers comes through less than layers that are closer to the surface.

From a "commodity" point of view you could compare the materials themselves in terms of thickness (comparing latex to latex and factoring in the different cost or benefits of different types of latex) and then add in a "value" for any other layers or components that are used (such as additional polyfoam, differences in cover/quilting materials, a foundation or other additions etc).

All of this though would miss the most important point which is which mattress provides you with the best possible PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) and other benefits (including the benefits of dealing with either manufacturer). While either one may be able to provide you with what you need in a mattress (pressure relief and support/alignment) ... they would be different in their overall feel and each manufacturer has a different design theory as to the combinations of materials and layering they prefer to use and which they believe provides the best "value" to their customers.

Once you have tested both (and both would be better value than the mainstream mattresses that most people end up buying) ... then it becomes a matter of comparing the benefits of each (along the lines of post #2 here ) and asking yourself if any cost, material, expected durability, or other differences in each justifies any differences in cost based on your own personal preferences.

It's like apples and oranges. Some may prefer apples and others oranges and to compare them you would need to first compare the benefits that are applicable to all fruit (nutrients, taste etc) which is like pressure relief, support, and your other preferences. You couldn't really compare them in terms of "value" (except by some arbitrary method such as vitamin C content or "crunchiness" etc) and to know their value you would need to compare the oranges to other oranges and the apples to other apples with some overlap between them. If you just don't like oranges then no matter what the relative value of the particular oranges may be ... the apples would "win out" in a comparison regardless of the "value" of the oranges.

The latex mattresses at The Mattress Factory would be more similar to the Southerland mattresses here which use varying thicknesses of latex over polyfoam support layers. Of course the quality of the polyfoam will also make a difference in their "value".

The ones at Magic sleeper would be more of a "traditional" layering that used all latex with a firmer support core and softer comfort layers on top (varying ILD more than layer thickness).

Both of these could make good choices IMO but the first step would be to test each to see how well they "fit" your overall needs and preferences and then to compare their differences (including cost) in terms of their importance to you.

Phoenix


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Last Edit: 19 Nov 2012 20:57 by Phoenix.
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03 May 2013 08:30 #17 by Jezo

Well, I ended up with the Ikea Sultan Edsele. I kept thinking about it over the months and just could not get myself to spend an extra thousand dollars on a custom made foam bed. Everything I read about the Ikea mattress made it sound like the best value for the money. I laid on it several times during the months during my Ikea trips and never found anything offensive about it, although how much could I for a 10 minute stop at the store, so I took the plunge. Somehow outside of this website there isn't much discussed about this particular bed, very strange considering it's the Ikea flagship mattress product.

I have only had it for a couple days so I really can't report much on it as it's so fresh and new so I'll check back in in a few months to let everyone know how it is. We dont even have a frame for it, that was sold off when we got rid of our old bed ($125 on Craigslist, the mattress and frame were bought in under a week!) so the new one is right on the hard wood floor.

If anyone is searching for this bed, the mattress does not come rolled up from the store itself or online ordering. It comes in a huge cardboard package and makes it look daunting but once you strip all that off the bed can easily be rolled yourself to fit in the back of a minivan. We didn't know this until we got it as everyone at the store couldn't give us an answer so we spent the extra $200 to have it delivered so hopefully this will save someone in the future. At the store it was in storage so we couldn't look at it on the shelf either.

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03 May 2013 13:44 #18 by Phoenix

Hi Jezo,

Congratulations on your new mattress :)

I'm looking forward to your feedback when you've slept on it for a while.

Phoenix


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06 May 2013 06:27 #19 by Jezo

Is there anything I need to know different about taking care of a latex mattress as opposed to the spring ones I have been using for the rest of my life?

Do you think it's okay to keep it on the floor for a while during the time we are looking for a new bedframe?

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06 May 2013 09:05 #20 by Phoenix

Hi Jezo,

Is there anything I need to know different about taking care of a latex mattress as opposed to the spring ones I have been using for the rest of my life?


No ... there are no special maintenance requirements for a latex mattress. Of course I give mine a little hug from time to time and say thank you for helping me sleep well :)

Do you think it's okay to keep it on the floor for a while during the time we are looking for a new bedframe?


In a normal environment that wasn't too humid that didn't expose the mattress to high humidity levels (and the risk of mold, mildew, and dust mites) on a cold floor (like a basement) this would be fine for a while IMO although I would put something under it like a blanket (wool would be great) to protect it from dirt and dust and I would let it air out on its side from time to time (say once a week) to let it ventilate and release any moisture buildup.

Phoenix


Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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