TOPIC:

I should start off and say that I've been sleeping in spring mattresses my whole life. The mattress I ended up replacing was a pretty firm spring mattress that I bought for $500 when I was going to school around five years ago. I've been having problems waking up early morning with pain from all over my back and neck. Come to think of it, I would haven't gotten a good night's sleep for a long while now. Also, I can feel every movement that my wife makes during the night, especially when she goes to the bathroom. I would at least wake up 3-4 times every night. I can bore all of you with the long list of uncomfortness that I've been feeling but I won't. Not only do I need a new mattress, but I need a good one that can alieve my discomfortness and for me and my wife to get a good night's sleep.

We went to the mattress store and spent at over 4 hours there laying on different beds as well as asking millions of questions to the sales rep who is also the owner of the store. Not to bore you with all the details but we ended up buying the Serta Icomfort Revolution. We bought it becuase it felt pretty good in the store and that there's a 120 day return/exchange without a fee. Awesome I thought as if I didn't like the bed I can exchange it for something else in a few months. It's worth a try I suppose. Then after I went home I went online to research the icomfort revolution. I reckon that I should of researched the bed before I bought it. Anyways, though the mattress has not been out in the market for a long time, I did gather some positives and some negatives about the revolution. Most of the review and opinions were from this very forum, which is awesome. I gathered the most information from the moderator of this site, Phoenix, who has shared an extensive amount of knowledge with respect to different mattresses.

I've been laying on the revolution for a few days now and it is hard but I'm sure it'll loosen up and be plush as it is meant to be (thought I am not even sure if a plush mattress fits my need). I do, however, have some buyer's remorse though. I understand that you get what you pay, however, I don't want to pay a premium price for a mattress that cost only a fraction of the price with lesser known brand. I spent countless hours on this forum reading and I am now leaning towards a latex mattress. I went back to the store and had another long talk with the owner of the store have narrowed down my choices to the following beds should the revolution not work out. My choice is either one of the diamond mattress ethos line, specifically the "Natural" or the "Hybird" line. www.diamondmattress.com/Ethos/Beds/Mattress.aspx

My questions are as follows:

1) This is probably a dumb question but I am not sure if I would benefit more from a firmer mattress or a more plush mattress. The mattress owner told me that people assume that a more firm mattress would be better for their back but they only regard firm in the few top layers instead of the bottom layers. Being sleeping on a firm mattress my whole life, I have no clue how I would react to something more plush.

2) With respect to the "Natural Peace" ethos line, it has a eco flex plant base form system (no idea what that is, but I think it's just a basic memory foam) and the latex foam on top of base foam. The "Hybird" line has the latex foam on top of the 744 individual wrap coils support system. Out of the "Natural" and the "Hybird" line, which would be better and why (is latex foam better on top of individual coils or is latex foam better on top of memory foam)?


I'm 5'11, 180lbs
My wife is: 5'5, 130lbs

thanks for reading

Hi jt408,

Diamond mattress is a regional manufacturer which is doing things right IMO. They are making high quality mattresses at a good price and I would choose them over a better known national brand every time. I have also been told they are also very responsive to their dealers and are open and transparent about the materials in their mattress with their dealers (although this may not always be the case as you can see in post #2 here ). There is no doubt in my mind that they would generally have better quality and value than mainstream brands and the two models you mentioned will likely have better durability than the iComfort Revolution. You would do well to switch if you need or choose to IMO.

The Natural uses a higher quality polyfoam (what they call eco-flex) which uses some plant oils to replace some of the petrochemicals usually used in the manufacture of polyfoam (thus the "eco" name which is a bit of greenwashing which the entire foam industry is promoting at the moment). Used in the support core of a mattress ... this is a durable material and a good choice for those who want the benefits of a latex comfort layer but don't want the expense of a high quality latex support core underneath this. Memory foam of any type is too soft to be used in the support layers of a mattress which is why it is only used in the upper layers.

The hybrid line uses a pocket coil spring which is also a good choice which is also less expensive than a latex core. There are many who prefer the feel of an innerspring mattress over a foam core and which one is chosen would be more a matter of preference than "better or worse". While a pocket coil is the most motion isolating and conforming choice of the innersprings ... a polyfoam core will do both just as well (particularly with latex over them which is almost as motion isolating as memory foam).

The two basic functions of a mattress are pressure relief (the primary role of the upper layers called the comfort layer) and spinal alignment (the primary role of the lower layers called the support core). Each of these should be tested separately. The comfort layer should be thick and soft enough to form a pressure relieving cradle to distribute weight and relieve pressure. The support core needs to be firm enough to hold up your heavier parts ... in particular your hips. Side sleepers typically need a thicker softer comfort layer than back sleepers while stomach sleepers need the thinnest firmest comfort layer of all. This is why a mattress can be both firm (on the bottom for support) and soft (on the top for pressure relief) at the same time. After these two priorities ... everything else is preference (such as sleeping more "in" your mattress rather than "on" your mattress ... the feeling of innersprings over polyfoam in the support core ... sleeping temperatures ... and other subjective choices).

If you were heavier ... I would probably tend to advise that a high quality and firmer polyfoam core would be more suitable but you are light enough that I would make the choice based on your and your wife's preference.

As long as you are testing for pressure relief (5-10 minutes completely relaxed on the mattress on your side testing for pressure on your hips and shoulders if you sleep in this position) and then separately testing for spinal alignment in all your sleeping positions (making sure your shoulders are sinking in far enough on your side and that your hips aren't sinking in too far in any of your sleeping positions), then you will likely make a good choice. After that make your choices based on preference and value.

Good luck ... and my "vote" would be for one of the Diamonds but of course it's always important to make sure you know all the details of the layers inside any mattress you are considering so you can make an informed choice

Phoenix

Thanks, Phoenix. I always admire and appreciate how all your posts are always lengthy and would touch on all the subjects.

Me and my wife never sleep on our stomach. We normally are side and back sleepers. In your opinion and if the prices are more or less the same, would you be more incline to "recommend" the Ethos Hybird line or the Ethos Natural line? and why? Furthermore, I tried the ethos Hybird extra soft in the store and it has two different layers of soft talalay layers that are staked on top of the coils and it felt wonderful -- like I was sleeping on a cloud. However, being that my past beds have all be mostly firm, I am hesitant to go to the opposite side of the spectrum to ultra soft/plush... So I am still kind of confused if I should chose, firm, medium, or extra plush, if I indeed would change to the diamond mattress (which I am leaning towards).

thank you for your help once again, Phoenix!

Hi jt408,

I wouldn't recommend one over another as they really are comparable and a matter of preference. On their website ... they give good information here about the choice between a pocket coil and polyfoam support core and I would agree with their assessment (it's nice to see what I believe is an accurate comparison unlike many other sites I have seen).

From www.diamondmattress.com/Diamond-Mattress/Bed-Types/Pocket-Coil-vs-Foam.aspx

Ultimately, at Diamond Mattress personal preference and feel separate these two support systems more than anything else because we ensure the materials we use are of the highest quality, so they are both durable, and they both provide excellent pressure relief, but in 2 very different ways.

From a personal perspective, I would likely choose the pocket coil with the two layers of latex but this is because I prefer a little livelier (what they call buoyant) feel.

My only concern with your extra soft preference would be that you end up sinking down a bit too far in the hips when you are sleeping on your back as this would be a more typical choice for a primarily side sleeper. I would lay on it completely relaxed on my back to sense if there was any tension in my lower back and have someone "eyeball" me to make sure that my spine was aligned with no obvious sinking down too far of my hips. My tendency in your case would be towards the medium partly because that's closer to what you're used to and partly because the "odds" are better that it will be better for back sleeping.

I am hoping to talk with them a little more over the next few days (your post is an excuse to do something I've been meaning to do anyway) as some of this "advice" would depend on some of the details of how they are layered and the innerspring itself and when I have I will add to this post if any new information comes to light.

Phoenix

Thanks, please keep this thread going when new information becomes available. I also been reading up on the website as well as doing my own research on the Ethos bed as well as Diamond Mattress as a company and I like what I see so far.

Phoenix wrote:
From a personal perspective, I would likely choose the pocket coil with the two layers of latex but this is because I prefer a little livelier (what they call buoyant) feel.

Phoenix

I saw the description and the pictures of the inside of the different ethos bed and the only bed I saw that has two layers of latex was the extra soft one (which has two soft layers on top of each other while on top of the coils). The firm and the medium ethos mattress just had one layer of latex over the coils or foam, respectively.

Phoenix wrote:
My only concern with your extra soft preference would be that you end up sinking down a bit too far in the hips when you are sleeping on your back as this would be a more typical choice for a primarily side sleeper.

Phoenix

You are probably right. Though the extra soft had two layers of soft latex and felt great when I was laying on it for a while at the store. I do question if it is right for me coming from a firm mattress. I suppose medium would best fit my need.

Hey Phoenix, did you ever get a chance to contact Diamond Mattress? If so, is there any new information you got from them?

Anyways, I've so far been having many restless night while sleeping on the revolution. It could be that my body is trying to get used to memory foan and I've been sleeping on tradition spring mattresses my whole life...

Anyways, I do have a few more questions:

1) With regards to the Ethos Hybrid line. I noticed that the only thing that is different between the Ethos Hybrid Maple and the Ethos Hybrid Refresh is that the Maple is "tufted". Can you educated me what does "tufted" mean and is it better than normal mattress (specifically the Refresh) that are not "tufted"?

2) It seems that the "tufted" line only comes in extra soft or medium and not firm, while the non-tufted line comes in extra soft, medium, and firm. Why is this so?

3) I know this is subjective, but which line would you recommend, the Ethos Natural line or Hybrid line?

thanks and cheers!!

Hi jt408,

I've called Diamond a couple of times ... once to pass a message on and once left a message with production but so far no return call yet.

Tufting is an upholstery method where different layers are attached together through the mattress and to the innerspring itself with a strong cord. It creates the "dimpled" look that you can see. It prevents shifting of the materials and it also can be used to precompress both the springs and the upholstery layers and change the feel and performance of the mattress by using different tensions in the cording and different spacing in the tufting. It is an old method of construction and can either be done by hand or by machine. Either way it adds to the cost of building the mattress.

There are several ways of creating firmer and softer surfaces than tufting of course and this includes using firmer or softer foams or using thicker layers. In the case of the Maple ... it has either 2" or 4" of talalay latex on top. The refresh has 2" of Talalay and then uses ecofoam (polyfoam) under this. The differences in the foams in the different comfort levels and the density of the polyfoam they use is part of what I wanted to ask them.

The firm level in the refresh would be from a higher ILD polyfoam under the latex.

I think that the natural and hybrid line would have similar value (higher cost would be higher quality) and the difference would be purely in preferences of feel so I truly wouldn't recommend one over the other. It would be entirely a personal preference of the feel of an innerspring over the feel of high density polyfoam in the support core. My personal preference would be for a latex support core (which of course is more expensive than either an innerspring or polyfoam) but after that I would likely choose the innerspring with the 4" of tufted Talalay since as I mentioned before I would likely prefer the livelier feel (although I'd certainly lay on it first just to confirm my "suspicions" and I'd also want to know more details about the layers inside both).

Phoenix

Awesome response as always, Phoenix. I think that I will have to trade my revolution in after I give it another week. I am leaning toward the innerspring maple ethos line. Do you know for sure that the layer of latex is only 2” for each layer and 4” for double layer? I had initially wanted the double layer latex, however, they only make double layer latex (4”) for the extra soft maple mattress (14” total). You did, however, mention that you would likely chose the innerspring with the 4” latex if you had to choose. Seeing that I came from a firm mattress and now would like to try a medium mattress, however I would like a 4" of latex also... So, would it be wise to choice a medium ethos maple with 2” of latex or a extra soft maple ethos with 4” of latex?

Thank you,

Hi jt408,

Do you know for sure that the layer of latex is only 2” for each layer and 4” for double layer?

The luxury soft is 2" higher than the medium (14" vs 12") and the comfort layer is 2" thicker which accounts for the difference.

Comfort Layer (from the details tab on the website)

Maple Luxury Soft: 4” Natural Talalay Latex.
Maple Luxury Medium: 2” Natural Talalay Latex

The maple has the advantage of having tri zoned support (helping to hold your hips up) which means you could get away with a little thicker comfort layer. The comfort layer is also tufted meaning its slightly compressed and a little firmer than loose layers would be. Finally, latex is more supportive than other foams in the same softness. Having said all that ... the ILD's of the 4" layers would also play a major role in how suitable it was for your circumstances. 4" would likely be fine if 2" of it was soft and 2" was medium. If it was all soft ... then depending on how soft the ILD was it may present an alignment issue. I would tend to recommend the medium mainly because of your side/back sleeping and the mattress you're coming from.

With the gaps in the details of the mattress ... and the fact that personal testing is always more accurate than theory at a distance ... I would make your final decision based on testing for alignment while on the mattress itself in both of your sleeping positions. By lying on your back completely relaxed on both mattresses ... it should be fairly easy to see if your hips are sinking down too far on the luxury soft. If you are in good alignment on both (and neither has pressure points on your side) then the choice would be based on preference. If it looked like (or felt like) you were sinking down a little too much in your hip area or there was any tension or tendency to tense your lower back (to hold it up) on the luxury soft relative to the medium ... then I would go with the medium.

My personal tendency towards the thicker softer version is because of personal preference and liking mattresses with softer comfort layers but I would never choose it without trying it first to confirm that I was in alignment because no matter how much I may like soft on top ... it isn't worth having back pain if the softness is too thick.

Phoenix

I can't believe I missed the inches of the latex... it was right there on the details tab of the website like you said.. With that said, I saw that the Ethos Natural Eco-Rest is both tufted and with 6" of latex even for the medium!! Initially I was interested in a medium mattress but wanted more than 2" latex. The eco-rest is both in medium and with 6" latex, however, it is with the eco-support system rather than the individual coils. Understandbly, I would have to try it out but I just want to narrow down my choices to one or two mattress before I try it out at the store. Now I am debating between the ethos maple or the ethos eco-rest. Can you compare and contrast these two mattresses when you get a chance?...

*sorry to ask so many questions but I really want to get as much info as I can becuase I don't really want to take the advice of a sales man without doing my due diligent. You've been crazy awesome so far. wow.