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Accurate information regarding latex mattresses, hybrid mattresses, adjustable bases, latex pillows, etc. Industry professional of over 40 years expertise in the mattress field currently using suppliers Talalay Global, Latexco, Radium Foam, Latex Green and Leggett & Platt.
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Questions on Firmness, Ultimate Hybrid, Eco Sleep, and DIY 31 Jul 2018 16:27 #1

I've organized my post with goals & stats first, background information second, and questions/concerns after. I've probably provided too much detail, but I did that so that you'd hopefully be able to pick out whatever details are actually important to help me... Feel free to skip whatever details you don't need, I won't be offended, lol.

Goals: Lots of bounce for sex, no "sunken" feeling, cooler temp. I would love to get sufficient support without extra supportive pillows (lumbar & body pillows, details in "Background"), but I can live with them if it would mean giving up on any of the other goals. I already know I don't like memory foam... it's too hot and I especially hate how it just kills momentum.

Sleep Habits & Stats: Primarily side, often back (probably 70/30). Currently no long-term S.O., but I often have company.
- My body: Male. 5'11", ~165 lb. Tall torso, short legs. Slim-ish hips and slimmer waist. Average shoulder width for my height... if there's a range, I'm likely on the higher end.
- Companions' bodies: Female. Usually: 5'2" to 5'6", 100-120lb, curves, mostly side sleepers
- Cuddling: Probably 50/50

Background: Preferred firm my whole life, so I bought firm/med-firm spring in 2010. A couple years later, added a 3" Novaform ComfortLuxe Gel Memory Foam Mattress Topper ( sells only at Costco ) for added comfort. Around 2015, began getting back pains (not major pain, but fairly often). In 2017, began using a lumbar pillow & putting a long pillow between my knees. Instant relief, no more back pain. But now the bed's getting old and the frame squeaks too much during sex. The bounce is less pronounced, the topper might be sinking a little too much, and it can get pretty warm. I've read a ton here, and despite being one of those "damn Millenials" who only shops online (seriously, I get booze & mixers delivered), I'm guessing I should really get out to a store... though I wonder if my concerns can really be worked through by laying down on some beds for a couple minutes...

Thoughts & General Questions: Based on my goals, I can't imagine a better option than a hybrid w/ latex. My concern is with the comfort layer: currently, when I lay on my side, my lower back gets no support--it just drops and I can feel the strain on my spine. Considering my topper is already 3", but still requires the lumbar pillow, I'm worried that 3" might not be enough... but then I'm worried that a thicker layer might interfere with the bouncy benefits provided by the coils. It's not like I have an hourglass figure--my waist isn't 3" less-from-center than my shoulders. Would the Ultimate Hybrid provide sufficient support? Which ILD should I opt for? Dunlop sounds like a better fit, but Talalay sounds like a better product, so what about that? (Side question: I used to use one of those contoured memory foam pillows, but I move around in my sleep so much that I would wake up with my head half-off the pillow, at a terrible angle, which led to neck pain. I recently switched to these gel pillows because I'm allergic to dustmites, and my neck is all better now, but the pillow is super warm. Would latex pillows help me, or would I also be susceptible to the head-half-off problem?)

Eco Sleep vs. Ultimate Hybrid: I know the Ultimate Hybrid has higher quality coils, but the site also says that they're firmer than the Eco Sleep's. I like firm feeling coils, and bounce is a priority, but I also want lower-back support if possible. The Ultimate Hybrid's coils have those 3 different zones, implying there will be additional lower back support... but wouldn't my hips also sit on the firmer part too, and wouldn't that negate the benefits to my lumbar?

Ultimate Hybrid vs. "DIY": Before TMU discounts, the Ultimate Hybrid is currently being offered for $1,395, but if I put together the same components from the DIY section of the site, it totals out to $1,032/$1,053
- $395.00 - Combi-Zone Pocket Coil in King
- $338.00 or $359.00 - 3" topper in King (Talalay vs Dunlop for price difference)
- $299.00 - 11" Wool & Bamboo Mattress Cover

I feel like I must be missing something. Is there an additional item missing from the list? Or are those actually the exact same components? Does the warranty or shipping work differently (I'm in CA)?

If you've made it this far, thank you! All of my research so far has me wanting a hybrid from Arizona Premium. Some of the bed-in-a-box guys seem interesting, too, but I just get this feeling that AZ provides a better quality-per-dollar. Brooklyn Bedding is reasonably priced ($919 for a Signature in King with a great return policy) but I'm concerned about their poly foam & the fact that they're no longer members here. Oso seems really interesting, but Reverie has pulled Oso for "product updates". Everyone else seems to be either much more expensive with slightly more benefits, more expensive for the same stuff, or similarly priced with inferior stuff.

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Last edit: by cr3amy.

Questions on Firmness, Ultimate Hybrid, Eco Sleep, and DIY 01 Aug 2018 09:44 #2

Thank you for your interest in our products and I did make it all the way to the bottom. I'll cut to the chase - an 8" coil will provide more bounce than a 6". Talalay will provide more bounce than Dunlop. Talalay also molds to your body curves better than Dunlop. All this points to the Ultimate as being the best choice. Your concern about the zoning can be fixed by how you position your hips in relation to the zoning. To get more lumbar support and less hip pressure you need to position the zone for lumbar and move a little down so your hips are in the non-zoned portion. I also think the Soft Talalay would be the best choice based on the info you provided for both yourself and sleeping partners. If a correction needs to be made then we can either exchange for a different firmness or add an additional layer over the mattress.

As far as components vs pre configured - the Ultimate includes shipping whereas the components to not. The Ultimate has a 60 day trial which includes money back if you are not satisfied, the components are exchangeable for no money back. Yes, you will still save a little by purchasing the components only.

Reverie is having trouble finding a reliable manufacturer for their "Dream Cell" products so there will be continued issues until they resolve that problem. I honestly don't think that concept is going to be around much longer.

I hope this info helps, I'm back in town fresh back from the summer Las Vegas Furniture Market so feel free to call if you need any more help.

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Questions on Firmness, Ultimate Hybrid, Eco Sleep, and DIY 01 Aug 2018 16:15 #3


Thanks a ton for reading all of it and giving me your expert advice, it was very insightful. I'll drop the Eco from my radar and just focus on the Ultimate... just have a couple follow-up questions:

- How is the zoning distributed... customizable or equal thirds? I lay with the under-arm stretched up, so my pillow doesn't sit on the back of the bed... this could work with a King size, but I'll want to measure it out to make sure I have enough room for my legs
- Regarding Talalay, all natural or blended?
- Do you think the 3" Soft Talalay will (probably) be sufficient, or is there a good chance I'd need another topper? If the latter, would it be a good idea or bad idea to start with 2x 2" Talalay toppers, or just try out the 3" first and see?
- What about the copper-infused topper? Would that be substantially better or mildly?
- Preconfigured vs. "DIY" - So I didn't miss any components, and besides shipping & returns, there aren't any other differences, right? EDIT: Looks like I chose the wrong topper, I chose blended Talalay instead of All Natural (which is what the preconfigured comes with). Updating that gives a new subtotal of $1,113. Did I still miss anything?
- Should I try laying on something in a store or are my goals so specific that hybrid is really just the only option for me anyway?
- Pillows - Are latex pillows a good idea for me? Basically, I suffer neck pain if my head is half-on a pillow that doesn't have enough give, and I benefit from pillow that can be plumped under my neck and smoothed out from under my head.
- I forgot to ask before, but it seems like the Ultimate Hybrid would be compatible with an adjustable base, right?

That's really interesting to hear about Reverie and the Dream Cell. While it's unrelated to our discussion, since I won't be going with them anyway, I'm curious as to what's creating so much difficulty with manufacturing their Dream Cell?

Anyway, I want to reiterate my gratitude for your input... I'm looking forward to making the upgrade with you guys!

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Last edit: by cr3amy.

Questions on Firmness, Ultimate Hybrid, Eco Sleep, and DIY 02 Aug 2018 09:31 #4

The zoning is dead center of the pocket coil and is 14" in total so 7" on either side of a center line. Blended or natural is a personal choice, no right or wrong. For most, the 3" topper is all that is needed but you can always add another 2 or 3" over the mattress. The copper infused is designed to be used over the mattress, not inside, if you want the full benefits. Your calculations are correct on DIY vs pre-configured but shipping is around $150.

Do a search for a Savvy Rest dealer in your area, they have a hybrid similar to ours and perhaps you can try some latex pillows while you are at it. We carry a shredded latex pillow that you can mold to your fancy although you won't see them on our site.

All of our mattresses work on adjustable bases, 15 of the 16 models we have on display in our showroom are on adjustable bases.

I can't reveal my sources on the Dream Cell issue but I think they are actually going to move away from latex on those and use a high end poly derivative if they can find a manufacturer. Could be issues with the new tariffs since those are currently being made overseas but that's just a guess.

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Questions on Firmness, Ultimate Hybrid, Eco Sleep, and DIY 02 Aug 2018 10:03 #5

You're the man, Ken! Thanks again for all of your help. I'll check out something at Savvy and either report back with adjustments to my questions or, hopefully, just call you and set up an order. Either way, I'll get back to you soon

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Questions on Firmness, Ultimate Hybrid, Eco Sleep, and DIY 02 Aug 2018 12:16 #6

Sounds like a plan. Call me direct if you need help with anything.

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