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Need advice on new Flexus Quadra-Flex mattress and Sleep on Latex topper 09 Feb 2018 12:43 #1

In December I bought a new Flexus Quadra-Flex mattress to replace my 11.5 year old Original Mattress Factory (OMF) Orthopedic Luxury Firm, the latter which was placed on a slat platform bed. As years ago this mattress, when new was too hard, I immediately topped it with a 2 inch good quality gel memory foam topper. The bed was pretty comfortable for many years, but it was clear to me over a year ago that the springs were shot.
I have had fibromyalgia and back problems for many years, but my lower back problems have been much worse the past two years. I am 5’6 “, 160 pounds. . Due to low lumbar pain from severe disc degeneration and associated right hip pain, I can sleep only on my back or left side. I spent over 6 months trying (in the store) many mattresses locally and looking for information on line. My best source has been this site, the Mattress Underground, and I have read all the basic information and many reviews , questions and answers on the Forum. Thank you Phoenix, you and your many contributors are the best.
After thinking about what might give me the best back and pelvic support, ( I also have pelvic alignment issues) , I chose a hybrid mattress. The Flexus Quadra-Flex has 8 inches of zoned pocket coil springs, they are Texas Pocket Springs, and 3 inches of the medium ILD (28, ) natural Talalay latex for the top layer. I did discuss this with Flexus. It is covered by a cotton and wool cover. This is a very heavy mattress, 128 pounds…We put it on a newly slatted sturdy platform bed and I added a new one inch coir/latex bed rug for extra support under the pocket coils. So, the foundation is first rate.
The first two weeks I slept just on the mattress , with a thin Luna mattress protector, and a sheet. I hoped to have less lower back and right hip pain when I woke up after a night’s sleep. This was not happening. When I tried to go to sleep, while the mattress felt “springy” or ‘bouncy”, I could feel a “push back” of sorts, probably from the coils under the latex layer, especially in my lower back and pelvic region, and, I could not sleep at all on my left side as it felt too hard on my hip. Even on my back all night I woke up with lower back and hip pain. So, oddly, you could view that 3 inches of talalay, as both too hard, and too soft…

What else I tried and results:
Adding a cheap old 1 inch or so egg crate foam, my back and hip felt terrible, did not make it one night.
Adding the old 2 inch gel memory foam topper I had saved, tried this for over a week. At first it did not seem too bad as I could not feel the springs push up, nor did my hip hurt when I tried to go to sleep on my side, but after several nights I started to feel like I was sinking in more and more and had quite bad lower back and hip pain again in the morning. I removed it.
Then I ordered a 2 inch Sleep on Latex SOFT Dunlop latex foam topper (19 ILD) in an organic cover. I now had two inches of soft Dunlop foam over three inches of medium Talalay foam. I felt like I sunk in too much, it was very bouncy, and both my lower back and my hip hurt quite a bit in the morning. I tried this for two days. I was disappointed that this topper did not help, as it seems like a good quality topper.
I then tried, one night, the same 2” soft Dunlop topper in the guest room over an old but rarely used OMF Regency mattress, with intact springs, and there was also very little difference in how I felt as I could get to sleep well, but my back and hip both hurt quite a bit in the morning.
Finally I have taken, from the guest bed , the older cotton fiber stuffed mattress pad which seems intact, maybe an inch or so thick, and put this directly over the Flexus mattress with no other topper. I think I cannot feel the spring pushback, as much, perhaps a little, and I am able to sleep on my left side but it is still slightly firm for me. In the week I have done this, I have had the first three days when my back and hip hurt much less than usual in the AM, and then the last 4 where they were about the same, but the pain usually seems to subside when I get up and walk around. So it is better…overall.
At this point I have a week or so to return or exchange the Sleep on Latex topper. It could only be exchanged for a 1 inch, 2 inch or 3 inch topper and their only latex is Dunlop in soft,( which I have) medium, or firm.
I have about month to exchange the medium latex layer on the Flexus mattress . I thought that the exchange could only be for Talalay latex, but found out this AM that in fact they can exchange a layer for a Talalay or a Dunlop latex layer, in soft, medium or firm.
I have tried mattresses I disliked immediately: two Tempur-pedics which felt like cement, several popular foam bed in a box type mattresses, ,(eg. Leesa, Casper, Pac Bed, etc.) too uncomfortable and hard , a Savvy Rest all latex mattress with soft, soft , medium Dunlop layers, way too bouncy and soft as was the OMF Serenity latex mattress.
I did like lying on the OMF heavily padded but too tall and weighty Orthopedic mattress. The only other mattresses I have tried (briefly) and liked were a very expensive Savvy Rest soft, medium, firm layers Dunlop all latex mattress, and a Berkeley Ergonomics mattress with two sets of coils (one micro) and layers of cotton and wool with a one inch layer of soft latex in there somewhere, but also expensive with a financially painful return policy .
I clearly need good support for my back, and for proper alignment, but some softness for my hip and my fibromyalgia. Are there any other types of toppers that might make the Flexus mattress better? Or, a new mattress pad, and if so, what type? If possible, I would like to keep the Flexus mattress as it should be a good support for my back and spine.
Is there any reasonable chance that if I exchanged the medium Talalay latex layer of the Flexus for a Dunlop medium, which would probably feel a little firmer, then put on the soft 2 inch Dunlop latex topper, that this configuration might be different enough to work?
If I get another Orthopedic OMF mattress, and go with the same one I had, the Luxury Firm, I am sure I will have to put some kind of topper over it, and I am not sure what would be the best. Their springs, knotted offset coil, are a firm gauge, 12 and ¾, six turns, and they are not zoned as they are in the Flexus. There may be other mattresses that could work, that I have not considered and if anyone has an idea, I am open to thinking about it.
I’m looking for any ideas here, Mattress Underground is the best!

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Need advice on new Flexus Quadra-Flex mattress and Sleep on Latex topper 10 Feb 2018 08:52 #2

You posted this in my area, but I think you meant it for Phoenix. But I'll provide a bit of commentary that hopefully will be useful.

Unfortunately, with issues such as fibromyalgia, where you have sensitivities that vary from day to day and can be non-specific at times, and even YOU can't tell what works for your own comfort, it makes it even less likely that someone on a forum would be able to tell you what would work best. I can only speak in general terms with people in similar situations, but realize that this may have absolutely zero application to you specifically because of the huge variance that people experience with fibromyalgia.

It may be that using an innerspring unit is providing more deep down support than you desire. I've had many people with fibromyalgia who defer to products using less support than would be normally recommended, specifically because it is what they respond to best. They often defer more toward surface plushness.

With your current spring unit, a deeper comfort cradle can be desirable to help offset this, or one that uses softer material. I've had situations where petite individuals choose product using 5"-6" of very soft material on top of marshall sporing units. Often combinations of memory foam and latex. If the latex is too resilient, even when plush Talalay, they place the memory foam on top (memory foam with a lower glass transition temperature - one that is soft at room temperature).

On the other hand, it seems that you're complaining about alignment issues when adding too much plush material, and adding the cotton and taking away some foam was better for your alignment but not so much for surface comfort. For you it may be attempting to find that "sweet spot" with just enough surface comfort but still enough to allow for alignment on top. You seem to have responded before to more progressive design, so it may be that medium to plush to plush on top would be logical, but not too thick total. You could try keeping the medium Talalay with only 1" of soft Dunlop on top (exchanging the topper), and if still sinking in too much low back then maybe exchanging for the medium Dunlop from Flexus. Also, to increase surface tension just a bit (based upon your cotton pad comments), you might also wish to consider a thin wool mattress pad.

While there are not absolutes I can speak to with your specific situation, hopefully some of those thoughts are helpful to you!

Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator
Beducation / Mattress To Go
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
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Need advice on new Flexus Quadra-Flex mattress and Sleep on Latex topper 10 Feb 2018 09:46 #3

Jeff,
Thank you so much for replying. While it is true I have fibromyalgia, this has been true for over 30 years and in general my past two OMF beds when newer, were fine when I added a topper. These orthopedic mattresses have pretty strong base support. However, it is probably true that I am like the princess and the pea when it comes to surface comfort!
The Sleep on Latex folks did not think 1 inch of their Dunlop topper would do anything, but it indeed something to think about. A wool topper did occur to me but unless it was heavily padded with cotton I probably could not use it. I can’t tolerate wool next to my skin, or even under one layer of thin cotton, just been that way since an infant!
I guess I wonder what the difference in spring support from a zoned pocket coil versus a sturdy OMF orthopedic base really is. From reading here I am confident both are good quality choices, but is one better than the other for a person with back, hip and alignment issues? Since the comfort layers on the two are so different, in what I have actually slept on, it does make it hard to know how the different mattress spring components might also be contributing to how I feel when I get up.
I had not thought about latex over memory foam . My memory foam topper is 11 years old and I am not sure how it might have changed over the years compared to a new memory foam topper...I did like it when it was new, but my back was “better”, not great, when I first slept on it.
I had written an earlier time when Phoenix replied but this was before the site was changed in Jan. I can find no way to post a general question/ new topic that is not linked to a expert such as yourself.
Thank you so much for your thoughts and if you have any insight on the two types of spring configurations, and/or what happens to a memory foam topper when it ages, I would appreciate it. I also wonder if a Medium Dunlop 3 inch layer would feel significantly different from a medium Talalay 3 inch layer to justify swapping out layers in the mattress.
Thanks, Carolina Girl

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Need advice on new Flexus Quadra-Flex mattress and Sleep on Latex topper 10 Feb 2018 11:42 #4

The 12.75 gauge knotted spring unit would be firmer and less contouring than your current spring unit.

Memory foam, like all other foams, softens with use over time. It has little resilience (bounce back), and the more dense, the more durable.

The difference in feel between 3" Dunlop and Talalay would depend upon what the supplier is calling "medium" and what is placed on top of it. Dunlop has a higher compression modulus than Talalay. Less padding on top of this 3" layer will mean you will "feel" more of the properties of this 3" layer.
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
Researching for a mattress?... read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Trusted Members

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Last edit: by MattressToGo.

Need advice on new Flexus Quadra-Flex mattress and Sleep on Latex topper 11 Feb 2018 09:49 #5

Thanks so much for your answers to my questions! As I was looking again at the springs section in MU, I realized that you made the video of the spring types I had looked at once before, and that there were other videos. I went to matt-to-go.com and watched quite a few of the very informative and interesting Beducation videos you have made about mattresses and the mattress industry. Thank you for giving this information to the public, we need it.

I also looked up "compression modulus", and that was quite an interesting foray into some very detailed information, but I am pretty sure I got the gist of it. That information and the suggestion of perhaps trying a 1 inch topper have given me some ideas as to why I am feeling what I am, and how the mattress set-up might be improved .

I think the suggestion for a wool topper is also a good one. For many years they have been suggested for people with Fibromyalgia. I'll have to see if there are any blended/thickly covered ones out there that might be less itchy , many people do think they help their sleep quite a bit.

I was also wondering if in fact the gel memory foam topper has gotten less supportive over time, and I gather the answer is, yes, it has. What was interesting, is that it felt "harder" over the new hybrid mattress, to both myself and my husband, than over the old innerspring. So, what I thought might be more supportive, in fact was less because it had softened over time, and it was put over a different type of mattress below. Lots of individual factors to consider here, I am appreciating the complexity of finding the best mattress for a person's particular needs.

It's great to know that Mattress Underground has added to it's experts on this site!

Thanks again, Carolina Girl

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Need advice on new Flexus Quadra-Flex mattress and Sleep on Latex topper 12 Feb 2018 08:01 #6

You're welcome! Check out Cuddle Ewe for some good information about wool and fibromyalgia (separate the marketing from the actual information).
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
Researching for a mattress?... read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Trusted Members

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Need advice on new Flexus Quadra-Flex mattress and Sleep on Latex topper 12 Feb 2018 14:44 #7

Thanks, I will!

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Need advice on new Flexus Quadra-Flex mattress and Sleep on Latex topper 13 Feb 2018 09:05 #8

:)
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
Researching for a mattress?... read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Trusted Members

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