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2+1 topper or 3 inch ...could use some advice 18 Aug 2018 11:50 #1

I currently am sleeping on a simmons beautyrest extra firm with the top removed for a "hybrid" build that is DIY. Back and side sleeper. It started out OK, but now things seem to be "Firming" a bit on my lumbar area. Particularly where the top of the lumbar meets the thoracic spine. I get some pains on that rib as a result (had it for years off and on). Clearly i need some kind cushioning but its hard to know what to get exactly. I dont have any retailers in the area that will allow me to try a 3 inch topper. I have a 28 ILD topper right now from brooklyn bedding, and its proving to be a bit hard on my shoulders (pushes them forward a bit), and back/legs. What confuses me is how much "topper" i need. The extra firm springs push my hips up, but they also do craddle my lower back. And now it seems like its craddling it a bit more than im comfortable with (maybe hips are sinking in too much?). With extra firm mattresses should i be "above" the coils a bit more than this? So the, "support" is there, but it seems the mattress is also doing some "pressure relief" too. How normal is this? Is cutting the top off a problem? Did the quilt layer help to raise my hips up more? Or is the mattress starting to fail?

How does that work with a topper? The 3" 28 ILD does help some, but i still seem to feel the "pressure" of my bed. And putting my 2 inches 19 ILD dunlop on top, helps, but only initially. Plus on my side the 3 inch topper is very hard on my hips and legs. That topper seems to be too firm, but im not sure if i simply need a 3 inch softer talalay (maybe dunlop) or should i go with 2+1 layering. Anything over 3 inches (unless very firm) and i seem to start hammocking, so keeping it below 3 seems to be right. Unless is use a firmer layer to "firm it up". Im 200 LBS/6 ft and have been told by the woman at mattress247 on ebay (dont recall her name) that 28 is too firm for my weight/height. And that 19 ILD or 24-27 would be "better". One issue i have with this might be that my shoulders round too much at night, which leads to neck pain. Something ive dealt with in the past as ive had rounded shoulders (i have broad shoulders) during sleep. So i want to avoid "sinking through" to the point that my shoulder begin to round and i end up sleeping in a hunched position, which leads to neck discomfort for me. Thats why i thought maybe a 2 inch medium with a 1 or 2 inch soft over it?

Any help would be appreciated.

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2+1 topper or 3 inch ...could use some advice 20 Aug 2018 11:51 #2

Hi Mike77,

Thank you for posting your question on The Mattress Underground. I am hoping I can help, but we can always move your question to a general topic so any of the Experts can provide insight.

I currently am sleeping on a simmons beautyrest extra firm with the top removed for a "hybrid" build that is DIY.


It sounds as if this is extremely firm, and would be good support, but not comfortable for a side sleeper. You said you have been using:

a 28 ILD topper right now from brooklyn bedding


This is a blended Talalay Latex that has ranges available in 14,19, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, 44 with +/- 2 on all ranges. The Supplier says their "Medium Firmness" starts at 24. So you may need something softer.

And putting my 2 inches 19 ILD dunlop on top, helps, but only initially


I assume you have tried just this on top of your mattress. Did you get any relief from just the 2"?

Would it be possible for you to visit a local mattress store to see what you feel when you lay on a mattress that has a stable support like your current mattress, and comfort layers that are built into the mattress? If you visit a store, you can get an idea about what comfort the quilt can provide. In our stores, we have 3" soft and firm latex toppers for customers to try on top of our mattresses. If a local store had this option you could see what a firm bed feels like, and then what the same bed feels like with a topper. If they don't have toppers available to try, can you take your topper into the store? Most mattress stores are very accommodating to peoples needs, and you could try one of their firm mattresses and then put your own topper on it and see the difference. Because you have removed the top of your original mattress, you may need to re-familiarize yourself with a factory built model as comparison. Just stay in the Simmons firm line up, and try and find one that feels similar to yours. The Salesperson should be able to help you find the something in their current line up that will be close.

If you do end up buying something online, please check with their return options and comfort guarantees. You don't want to buy something that will not benefit your sleep.

I hope this has been helpful, we can always get input from some of the other experts like Jeff from Mattresses to Go.

Debbie Lewis
parklanemattresses.com and Parklane Expert Profile
Researching for a mattress?... read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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2+1 topper or 3 inch ...could use some advice 22 Aug 2018 07:06 #3

Hi, thanks for your input.

I get little relief from the 2 inches of 19 ILD because i just feel the mattress below. It does offer some relief, but not a great amount.

The biggest concern i have is my shoulders rounding when i try to sleep on a 3 inch topper, which leads to neck pain for me due to my neck extending further back. That's why im asking about 2+1 because its easier to augment (and cheaper for me). Do you know anything about 2+1 versus 3 inches? If 2+1 would work as well as a 3?

Unfortunetly, i dont think i have any mattress stores in my area that have 3 inches of any topper for customers to try. I live in barre, vermont, and our state isn't the greatest in terms of commerce. Maybe NH. But that's a long ways to travel for me.

If you can't really answer my question, feel free to put this in general help too.

Thanks again

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Last edit: by Mike77.

2+1 topper or 3 inch ...could use some advice 22 Aug 2018 11:16 #4

Hi Mike77,

I have sent an E-mail request to Phoenix asking that this get moved so the entire expert community can give input. I believe that by having the ability to customize (like the 2+1) gives you the most freedom from night to night. I remember in your first post you mentioned you were stacking latex on top of your extra firm spring core:

Im doing DIY mattress building with my extra firm spring core. I cut the quilt layer off at the top to get to the springs and just stacked latex on top.


Are these two layers the only components you are using above the spring? 3" of 28ILD and 2" of 19ILD? Do you still have the quilted fabric that you originally cut off?

The 3" 28 ILD does help some, but i still seem to feel the "pressure" of my bed. And putting my 2 inches 19 ILD dunlop on top, helps, but only initially.



I just want to get an idea of what you currently have available to layer.

Sincerely,

Debbie Lewis
parklanemattresses.com and Parklane Expert Profile
Researching for a mattress?... read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Trusted Members

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2+1 topper or 3 inch ...could use some advice 23 Aug 2018 07:47 #5

I have 4 main types of toppers to experiment with. Long ago i bought and have, what i think (not sure though) is a 32 ILD talalay, and Ive been on that for a while. That was over a firm dunlop. That got ditched after a long time of hip and shoulder pain towards something softer, but i still use the talalay because it is soft enough for back sleeping, but maybe not for side (kind of rough on my shoulders). To soften things up i purchased a 2 inch 19 ILD dunlop, 3 inch 28 ILD talalay, and a 1 inch 30 ILD dunlop, and have been experimenting with those. No combination is perfect, but the w inch 32 ILD talalay (older topper) and the 1 inch 30 ILD underneath is a step in the right direction. The 3 inch 28 ILD talalay ive tried and is just too firm for my shoulders, but ive been told i shouldn't have bought it to begin with. So im torn between trying 2+2, 2+1 configurations vs just buying a 3 inch medium (22-27) softer talalay and trying that out (im told thats more what i should have for my weight range). Which is why i asked about it here because if im just going to sink into the 3 inch too much, then buying a softer 2 inch may be the next best step.

The biggest issue id have with going 3 inches is my shoulders rounding and my hips sinking in too far. In your experience would you say that concerns warranted? I weigh 200 lbs and am 6 ft. Is the 22-27 talalay in my "weight range"? Not sure where the ebay woman got that figure from. Im a back AND side sleeper, so i want to make sure my lower back isn't going to be a problem when "sinking in".

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Last edit: by Mike77.

2+1 topper or 3 inch ...could use some advice 23 Aug 2018 09:32 #6

Hi Mike77,

I noticed that Latex Mattress Factory (one of the Experts) just posted this to another person looking for information on building their own mattress:

Regarding component suppliers for a possible DIY, while not inclusive, there are some options listed here but I don't have records of the individual component suppliers. You can do also do a search like the one linked here and look for some other lists that have been discussed throughout the forum. I would point out that the attempt to design your own mattress with no real understanding of how the componentry will eventually “mesh” together to create overall comfort and may have in some cases higher costs and unintended results ....so a tempering of expectations is always realistic.

I think getting you to an Expert that deals in latex components would help you the most.

If you go here you can click on the green New Topic button and copy and paste your questions in for Latex Mattress Factory. They are great at responding and I think they can guide you through your layers.

I say this to get you the best advice from a company that works with this every day.

I wish you much success and healthy restful sleep.

Debbie Lewis
parklanemattresses.com and Parklane Expert Profile
Researching for a mattress?... read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Trusted Members

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