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Talalay equivelent of a d60 dunlop topper

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15 Apr 2019 14:06 #1 by Woolford13
I am trying to find a talalay replacement for my 2" dunlop topper. My topper had a density of D60 (from Aripco). The D60 is not available in my country anymore, I tried D65 (Revor Latex) but this was too hard. I can get a talalay topper ordered from the USA, however I am stuck between getting their soft or super soft talalay topper and I have no way to test it beforehand or return it if it is too hard.

I am exclusively a side sleeper of about 200lb. With my weight I realise that one might recommend a firmer topper, however I have fibromyalgia and any sort of pressure leaves me in pain (hip pain in particular) and unable to sleep which makes things more difficult (hence why the D65 dunlop topper was too hard). Due to the fibromyalgia I like things very soft.

The D60 dunlop topper (Arpico Latex) was OK although I could have gone softer, and lasted 7 years before it became saggy in the middle, however this is unavailable in Australia now (It was supposed to last 10 years, but I understand my weight may cause some problems). I then tried the D65 dunlop (Revor latex) but it caused me some shoulder and hip pain. Talalay was recommended to me as being less likely to cause pain from pressure. I intend for the talalay topper to go on top of the d65 dunlop which I still have, with a chilipad between them as even with latex I overheat easy (the chilipad contains surgical rubber tubing which causes pain if I lie on it directly but is fine under the d60 dunlop although not as effective).

Assuming the talalay and dunlop were the same density, do you know if I would I be more likely to sink through the talalay or would it be the same and would it feel softer or likely the same. I would be unable to send the topper back once bought as I live in Australia and there is no store here that sells talalay toppers so I can't even try them out. I originally bought a d65 dunlop topper to replace my d60 but found it too hard, so I am wary about buying one too hard a second time. The soft talalay topper I am contemplating buying is approximately 4.3 lbs per cubic square foot (20-24 ILD) and the super soft is approximately 3.9 lbs per cubic square foot (14-19 ILD). It cannot be harder than Aripco D60. If it is slightly softer or equivalent to Arpicos D60 I likely would be fine with it, although I still do occasionally wake up with hip pain on this topper. I do wonder if going softer may help with that, but it might just be something that no topper will help with as there is always going to be some pressure on my hip when I sleep on my side.

Also, with the supersoft and my weight, is the issue more that the topper won't last as long or is it that I will sink through it/not be in proper spinal alignment. I am unsure how much more you sink through talalaly than dunlop or if its the same as there's no way for me to test it.

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16 Apr 2019 16:00 - 16 Apr 2019 16:11 #2 by Manimal
Hi Woolford13,

I'd suggest a 19 ILD blended Talalay from Talalay Global (Latex International) if you're able to source one. The blended will be very similar to the all-natural but slightly more supple. The all-natural will be a bit more dense and "elastic", so in theory could "push back" a little harder on your body, although a lot of people may not notice a difference.

Blended is also widely considered the gold standard for durability. Radium Talalay will be similar of course but in my opinion, the TG blended Talalay has the best feel out there when it comes to latex, particularly in regard to pressure relief. I'm not particularly biased and if you were dead set on all-natural Talalay in order to ensure the "most natural" all around (Talalay) latex product, I'd recommend Radium in that case since they don't use any filler and seem to be very consistent. They also carry the additional certification of 'Greenguard Gold' (that's not to knock the TG all-natural which is still a great product).

Btw, if you don't want to look further than the 20-24 ILD topper you're currently considering, I think that would probably be a better choice than than the 14-19. It'll still be soft, especially compared to Dunlop, but should have just enough support so that you don't go right through it. Now that I'm thinking about it, it could potentially be a better option for you than 19 blended Talalay... just understand there's too many variables involved to provide any definitive answers on an online forum.

I'll defer to the forum experts for further comments.
Last edit: 16 Apr 2019 16:11 by Manimal.

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17 Apr 2019 09:56 #3 by Woolford13
Thanks for the info. Would you know by about how much a 20-24 ILD talalay topper would be softer than a D60 Dunlop? Or would they be quite similar (I realize the feel would be different between the two, its more about pressure relief)

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17 Apr 2019 16:42 - 17 Apr 2019 17:19 #4 by Manimal
Hello- D60 Dunlop would be quite soft (~15 ILD) but I really couldn't give you a definitive answer since feel (including the quality of "pressure relief") is so subjective. I'd say if you felt D65 was too firm you may want to consider Talalay in general since D60 is pretty close in density (along with mentioning you could have gone softer than your previous D60 topper). Talalay has more air infused into the foam and is generally considered to have more of a buoyant/cushioning feel while Dunlop is denser and more supportive- I'm not sure if you've come across the old angel cake (Talalay) vs. pound cake (Dunlop) analogy. *Update*- after thinking about this a little more and considering the information you've provided, I would say go for the 15-19 Talalay if that's what's available and you want a top layer with some nice "cushioning" but not a whole lot of "support". Softer Talalay can almost have a memory-foam type quality to it as well in terms of conformance and pressure relief which may be what you're looking for.
Last edit: 17 Apr 2019 17:19 by Manimal.

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19 Apr 2019 04:12 #5 by silverbull
Hi Woolford, fellow Aussie here. Please let me know if you have found any suppliers of Talalay toppers who will ship to AU at rates that are not crazy expensive. FYI if you want Dunlop toppers you can buy from one of the listed member sellers on this site (SleepOnLatex) via amazon.com.au and the shipping rates are good with Amazon plus if you have prime it's free shipping from US.

Note to all member manufacturers that sell on Amazon, Amazon restricts a lot of countries outside US from buying from amazon.com these days to funnel the business through their local Amazon site. If you list your product on the Amazon "international store" or "global store" it opens these products up to us. SleepOnLatex does this but I cannot find any others from the member list.

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19 Apr 2019 10:37 #6 by Sensei
Hey Wollford13,

Welcome to the forum :).

Thank you for your post and also thank you to @Manimal and @silverbull for adding some really good information.

This particular subject and be a little confusing and sometimes be very difficult to compare. Just for some background information, Dunlop and Talalay aren't directly comparable in terms of firmness using only ILD numbers because there are several factors that can affect how soft or firm a mattress (or an individual layer) feels besides just the ILD of the material (see post #4 here ) and Dunlop and Talalay that are the same thickness and ILD won't feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply). There is more about the difference between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here .

Additionally, the ILD of different materials or different types and blends of latex also aren't always directly comparable to each other (see post #6 here ) partly because ILD can be measured in different ways and partly because ILD isn't the only factor that affects the softness or firmness of a material so again using the ILD or other specifications of a particular layer or combination of layers as a reliable indication of how any mattress will "feel" or how firm it will feel to you compared to another mattress with a different combination of layers can sometimes be more misleading than helpful.

The soft talalay topper I am contemplating buying is approximately 4.3 lbs per cubic square foot (20-24 ILD) and the super soft is approximately 3.9 lbs per cubic square foot (14-19 ILD). It cannot be harder than Aripco D60. If it is slightly softer or equivalent to Arpicos D60 I likely would be fine with it, although I still do occasionally wake up with hip pain on this topper.


Do you know if the Talalay manufacturer is Talalay Global or Radium? Both are great, just minor differences in formula and ILd ranges. Some of the data you provided is a bit different than some of my "research / info".

24ILD was closer to averaging a D60 (3.75lbs/cubic foot) .....and 28ILD averaged closer to 4.3lbs (69kg/meter cubed) ...this is not public info and can differs between TG and Radium. Just more of info from my notes and interviews w latex people.

Given all this, I agree w other Manimal probably the 24ILD Talalay is the best choice between the two Talalay choices.

Thank you again, and please let me know if you have any more questions.

Thanks
Sensei

Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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19 Apr 2019 12:55 #7 by Woolford13
Hello, thanks for replying. The manufacturer for the latex is talalay global. Is there any chance that that the 21-24 ILD could end up harder/firmer than the d60 dunlop. That's what I really worry about as I found d65 dunlop too hard.

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19 Apr 2019 13:03 #8 by Woolford13
Hello,

I did consider the dunlop latex from this site, but when I emailed them they said there soft toppers were d65, which I find to hard. I couldn't find any dunlop toppers that were d60 that I could get to Australia for a reasonable price. The talalay toppers I am considering are on ebay being sold by belowcostliquidator. They will ship to Australia for approx 100 AUD.

Of course the problem with that is if I find it too hard there is no real way to return it once you pay that in shipping and latex toppers are expensive anyway. Latex is the only material I won't over heat with through.

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19 Apr 2019 14:17 #9 by Latex Mattress Factory.
Hello Woolford,

It will be a bit subective, but if the main concern is that the Talalay topper be softer than the D60, then you may want to consider the 19-20 ILD. Since this is going on top of the D65 layer you already have, this will add extra plushness and contour and pressure relief to the mattress.

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19 Apr 2019 14:34 #10 by Woolford13
Hello, Thanks for repleying. It doesn't necessarily have to be softer (although I don't mind if it is), it just can't be harder, but it looks like there is no way to do a standard dunlop to talalay equivalent conversion (such as what is the talalay equivalent of a d60 dunlop by firmness feel). What I worry about with the softer 14-19 ILD is that my weight may cause problems (at 200 lb), but on the other hand my fibromyalgia means I can't tolerate things very hard (e.g. the d65 dunlop). It would be easier if I could test it in a store, but sadly not an option with my location.

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